How to fix our crisis

Anonymous
I’m so confused by the backlash against op. These are just truthful parts of American education and have been for quite some time.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I forgot this forum is majority upper middle class, so they don’t see the issues. On average, for the average, education is really poor in this country and not teaching the skills students need to get through college.


Where do you live? Here in the DMV, any attentive parent with a kid in the public schools has seen these issues. Heck, anyone with an Instagram account has seen these issues - check out Justin Ewad. China and Russia must really enjoy these videos as they show where we are heading. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh-wfgprkKQ

Look back at this thread. A bunch of parents in denial that there’s an issue. Any change to education is seen as a good place to put pre professional education.


Yes, but there are people on DCUM from all across the country. That’s why I asked where the poster lives. There are still many highly segregated schools where one might not grasp the magnitude of the problem, but that is not the case in the DMV.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues


I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

+1, I guarantee you the students will not listen to Financial planning lectures.


DP. My kids did. They learned a lot from those classes, in addition to my spouse and I teaching them about personal finances.



You need to understand how many kids out there have parents who don't care about their kids' education. They send them to school and that's the end of their involvement. Many aren't even getting them to school (and that's an entirely different issue!). They aren't teaching their kids anything. That's the role of schools. I have many, many students with MIA parents. They could be incarcerated, dead, generally disinterested in their kids, living with relatives, addicted to drugs/alcohol, etc. Even the ones who aren't in these categories don't see themselves as educational role models for their kids as many never finished school. If nobody at home ever asks to see your report cards or asks about what you are learning at school, even the best student won't care about school by MS.


I agree, but not sure what this has to do with anything. All the more reason to offer these classes at school.


When your parents don't care, very few kids will care about school and learning. They are lost by MS. They don't give a crap about a financial literacy class. They often read far below grade level and don't hand in work. They don't attend school regularly because who would if your parents don't care and don't make you go.



So are you saying that because of these particular kids, classes like financial literacy shouldn't be offered? I'm sorry, but no. We don't pull everything down to meet the lowest possible standard. And I would also argue that a lot of the kids you describe find school to be a lifeline, without which they would NEVER be exposed to any educational concepts at all. Again - all the more reason to offer these classes at school.



I never said they shouldn't be offered but it won't do them any good. They are not in class, sleeping through class, on their phones/laptops, etc. My DH teaches these students and they mostly are done with school by MS. By HS, they are years behind in reading and math. Many of them have missed 50+ days of school beginning in kindergarten. It's no wonder why they are so far behind. I teach them in kindergarten and you can often see the trajectory at age 5/6. The LEAST number of days of school my kindergarteners have missed is 14 (I have 24 students). Nearly half of them were considered chronically absent (missing 18 or more days of school) by the end of the 1st quarter.


My question is, why aren’t the school attendance policies enforced? Years ago they had truancy officers. They should hire more social workers and have them go house to house (or apartment to apartment) enforcing mandatory schooling for the good of our society.



Our social workers are great. They've already visited the homes of many of my students. They rarely get an answer when they knock at the door/ring the bell. If they do, they often find irate parents who they've woken up. Many work nights and sleep during the day but instead of taking their kids to school, the kids stay home on their devices. They al live within walking distance and the social workers have tried their best to have them walk with neighbors to school but if nobody answers the door when the neighbors come by...

When an admin and/or social worker does go to truancy court (it takes years of chronic absenteeism before the cases go to court), the parents usually don't show up and nothing happens.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues


I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

+1, I guarantee you the students will not listen to Financial planning lectures.


DP. My kids did. They learned a lot from those classes, in addition to my spouse and I teaching them about personal finances.



You need to understand how many kids out there have parents who don't care about their kids' education. They send them to school and that's the end of their involvement. Many aren't even getting them to school (and that's an entirely different issue!). They aren't teaching their kids anything. That's the role of schools. I have many, many students with MIA parents. They could be incarcerated, dead, generally disinterested in their kids, living with relatives, addicted to drugs/alcohol, etc. Even the ones who aren't in these categories don't see themselves as educational role models for their kids as many never finished school. If nobody at home ever asks to see your report cards or asks about what you are learning at school, even the best student won't care about school by MS.


I agree, but not sure what this has to do with anything. All the more reason to offer these classes at school.


When your parents don't care, very few kids will care about school and learning. They are lost by MS. They don't give a crap about a financial literacy class. They often read far below grade level and don't hand in work. They don't attend school regularly because who would if your parents don't care and don't make you go.



So are you saying that because of these particular kids, classes like financial literacy shouldn't be offered? I'm sorry, but no. We don't pull everything down to meet the lowest possible standard. And I would also argue that a lot of the kids you describe find school to be a lifeline, without which they would NEVER be exposed to any educational concepts at all. Again - all the more reason to offer these classes at school.



I never said they shouldn't be offered but it won't do them any good. They are not in class, sleeping through class, on their phones/laptops, etc. My DH teaches these students and they mostly are done with school by MS. By HS, they are years behind in reading and math. Many of them have missed 50+ days of school beginning in kindergarten. It's no wonder why they are so far behind. I teach them in kindergarten and you can often see the trajectory at age 5/6. The LEAST number of days of school my kindergarteners have missed is 14 (I have 24 students). Nearly half of them were considered chronically absent (missing 18 or more days of school) by the end of the 1st quarter.


What is it, exactly, that you would like to see happen?





Here is a good start:

1) Free, quality childcare from infancy for all kids whose parents work and make below certain income limits. Sliding scale after that limit.
2) Qualify food for kids in daycare-high school. The "food" the students current get is mostly total crap.
3) A much better home and parenting situation. Something similar to the resources in the Harlem Children's Zone in NYC.
4) Paid sick leave for everyone.
5) Paid parental leave for everyone.
6) Free and required annual checkups for all kids (not just them getting shots at shot clinics). We are seeing a lot of issues in our 5 yr olds that should've been caught before this (vision, hearing problems, autism, speech issues, etc). If early intervention is key, early detection is needed.


PP, I’m the second 20:43 poster again. First, thank you for all you do for our kids. You sound like an incredibly caring and competent teacher. Second, I agree with everything you have proposed. Wish we could make this happen - it is not too late to start! I am not familiar with the Harlem Children’s Zone but look forward to checking it out. In MoCo, we have the “Parent Encouragement Program” that teaches positive parenting skills, which are obviously a precursor to school-readiness. Some participants are highly educated, “helicopter” type parents seeking information on child development, whereas others are remanded by the Courts to attend the classes, particularly for cases involving extreme anger. I wish this program was national - it is a fantastic way to approach the long road of parenting.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I’m so confused by the backlash against op. These are just truthful parts of American education and have been for quite some time.


Exactly! I suspect the backlash is coming from people invested in the current system. People like Lucy Calkins and her myriad certified instructors (now debunked) or DoE bureaucrats. I cannot understand how anyone would not agree that we need to improve our educational system and have ideas for doing so.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m so confused by the backlash against op. These are just truthful parts of American education and have been for quite some time.


Exactly! I suspect the backlash is coming from people invested in the current system. People like Lucy Calkins and her myriad certified instructors (now debunked) or DoE bureaucrats. I cannot understand how anyone would not agree that we need to improve our educational system and have ideas for doing so.



Those in the trenches see that we need to improve mastery of basic skills first. Posters are going on about calculus when there are plenty of students who haven't mastered basic math. Everything after that is a waste of time for these students.

If they can't read basic decodable books, no use in assigning them Chaucer. If they can't write a grammatically correct sentence, what good is assigning them essays to write?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues


I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

+1, I guarantee you the students will not listen to Financial planning lectures.


DP. My kids did. They learned a lot from those classes, in addition to my spouse and I teaching them about personal finances.



You need to understand how many kids out there have parents who don't care about their kids' education. They send them to school and that's the end of their involvement. Many aren't even getting them to school (and that's an entirely different issue!). They aren't teaching their kids anything. That's the role of schools. I have many, many students with MIA parents. They could be incarcerated, dead, generally disinterested in their kids, living with relatives, addicted to drugs/alcohol, etc. Even the ones who aren't in these categories don't see themselves as educational role models for their kids as many never finished school. If nobody at home ever asks to see your report cards or asks about what you are learning at school, even the best student won't care about school by MS.


I agree, but not sure what this has to do with anything. All the more reason to offer these classes at school.


When your parents don't care, very few kids will care about school and learning. They are lost by MS. They don't give a crap about a financial literacy class. They often read far below grade level and don't hand in work. They don't attend school regularly because who would if your parents don't care and don't make you go.



So are you saying that because of these particular kids, classes like financial literacy shouldn't be offered? I'm sorry, but no. We don't pull everything down to meet the lowest possible standard. And I would also argue that a lot of the kids you describe find school to be a lifeline, without which they would NEVER be exposed to any educational concepts at all. Again - all the more reason to offer these classes at school.



I never said they shouldn't be offered but it won't do them any good. They are not in class, sleeping through class, on their phones/laptops, etc. My DH teaches these students and they mostly are done with school by MS. By HS, they are years behind in reading and math. Many of them have missed 50+ days of school beginning in kindergarten. It's no wonder why they are so far behind. I teach them in kindergarten and you can often see the trajectory at age 5/6. The LEAST number of days of school my kindergarteners have missed is 14 (I have 24 students). Nearly half of them were considered chronically absent (missing 18 or more days of school) by the end of the 1st quarter.


My question is, why aren’t the school attendance policies enforced? Years ago they had truancy officers. They should hire more social workers and have them go house to house (or apartment to apartment) enforcing mandatory schooling for the good of our society.



Our social workers are great. They've already visited the homes of many of my students. They rarely get an answer when they knock at the door/ring the bell. If they do, they often find irate parents who they've woken up. Many work nights and sleep during the day but instead of taking their kids to school, the kids stay home on their devices. They al live within walking distance and the social workers have tried their best to have them walk with neighbors to school but if nobody answers the door when the neighbors come by...

When an admin and/or social worker does go to truancy court (it takes years of chronic absenteeism before the cases go to court), the parents usually don't show up and nothing happens.


Wow, this is sad. Thank you for replying to my question. It sounds like we need to streamline the truancy process. I was raised by a single parent who worked night shifts as an RN. Often she worked midnight to 8 a.m., and sometimes when she arrived home, she would see that I had missed the school bus, so she would have to drive me to school. Or I could call a friend from church to take me to school, or I would simply walk and arrive late. In the cases you mentioned, where the kids are walking distance to school, there is just no excuse at all!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.


Agree- why do kids take 7 classes each semester? It is one of the reasons males who lag in executive functioning skills fall behind. Too many deliverables to keep track of- better to work on larger, more meaningful projects.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m so confused by the backlash against op. These are just truthful parts of American education and have been for quite some time.


Exactly! I suspect the backlash is coming from people invested in the current system. People like Lucy Calkins and her myriad certified instructors (now debunked) or DoE bureaucrats. I cannot understand how anyone would not agree that we need to improve our educational system and have ideas for doing so.



Those in the trenches see that we need to improve mastery of basic skills first. Posters are going on about calculus when there are plenty of students who haven't mastered basic math. Everything after that is a waste of time for these students.

If they can't read basic decodable books, no use in assigning them Chaucer. If they can't write a grammatically correct sentence, what good is assigning them essays to write?


Second 20:43 again. This thread is fascinating (with the exception of the few name callers). I’d love to do a DCUM meet-up and continue the discussion and perhaps actually do something! (We used to do that when DCUM first started!)

It seems often government, schools, and social services agencies don’t have an easy way to connect the dots. A good example of success is when I volunteered at a DC high school (Eastern). The school was dealing with truancy issues and the teachers and principal eventually realized that many of their students cut classes in order to work to help support their families. They then changed the hours that certain classes were offered to work around the most common work schedules. Obviously, that took a lot of commitment and was just one high school, but it’s a good example of what can be done.

Going back to your example of the night shift parents who don’t get their kids to school…I wonder if some of these families are living in HOC housing or similar and if the truancies could be brought to the attention of the housing officials, maybe they impose a small fine if the schools report that the kids are not attending school. Obviously, you don’t want to end up with them being homeless, but there has to be some type of carrot and stick approach that could tie the issue of truancy back to other government-supported benefits going to these families.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.


Agree- why do kids take 7 classes each semester? It is one of the reasons males who lag in executive functioning skills fall behind. Too many deliverables to keep track of- better to work on larger, more meaningful projects.


Excellent points!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues


How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.


+1. What percentage of Americans need Calculus once they graduate? 5% ? Maybe. Why would you foreclose the other 95% of Americans from getting a high school diploma? I’m a JD and I have two semesters of college calculus because my college required it at the time— for my humanities major. And although I grinded enough to get As, I never understood its applications. And once I got through the classes I never used it again. For serious STEM tracked students, it’s necessary. In order to be an informed citizen, Stats and Discrete math/game theory and basic programming are actually more useful and relevant. I have a strong STEM kid (TJ grad) who uses calculus. And a strongly humanities kid who is doing IR and using stats, research methods and is signed up for game theory next semester. She is also using GIS for an internship and needs basic programming. She also has had no use for calculus once she graduated from high school.

What we need is stronger civics and American government, debate (like a class that requires you to form arguments, arguing and rebutting both sides of an issue), English with a strong emphasis on reading nonfiction and coherent writing, basic chemistry bio and physics. Stats and discrete math and some level of programming for all students. And an economics and personal finance class with teeth— not modules you take over the summer. And then specialize from there. And we need to decide if we want to commit to having a bilingual population or not. 4 years of high school any language isn’t enough. If we want our kids to speak another language, it needs to be a core subject starting in ES. Or, we need to let it go. But, like Calculus, only a small percentage of kids actually use their high school language.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:If the SAT isn’t rigorous enough then why do so few students get a perfect score ? Why do students who are focused on humanities need to be required to take calculus in high school?


Almost a thousand kids get a perfect score every year.
That number used to be closer to a dozen.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues


How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.


Calculus has been a benchmark for a student's ability to handle academic rigor for at least the past 50 years.
If you can't handle calculus, you can't handle a lot of things.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+100. DC’s school aligns Ap Us Gov, Ap Us History, and Ap Engl lit to follow similar themes and teach similar concepts at the e same time, because the exams and skills are so similar. They even sometimes coteach the classes.

The issue rn is that we really have no way of improving course offerings for average or low income high schools when there’s so many ap exams out there.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues


How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.


+1. What percentage of Americans need Calculus once they graduate? 5% ? Maybe. Why would you foreclose the other 95% of Americans from getting a high school diploma? I’m a JD and I have two semesters of college calculus because my college required it at the time— for my humanities major. And although I grinded enough to get As, I never understood its applications. And once I got through the classes I never used it again. For serious STEM tracked students, it’s necessary. In order to be an informed citizen, Stats and Discrete math/game theory and basic programming are actually more useful and relevant. I have a strong STEM kid (TJ grad) who uses calculus. And a strongly humanities kid who is doing IR and using stats, research methods and is signed up for game theory next semester. She is also using GIS for an internship and needs basic programming. She also has had no use for calculus once she graduated from high school.

What we need is stronger civics and American government, debate (like a class that requires you to form arguments, arguing and rebutting both sides of an issue), English with a strong emphasis on reading nonfiction and coherent writing, basic chemistry bio and physics. Stats and discrete math and some level of programming for all students. And an economics and personal finance class with teeth— not modules you take over the summer. And then specialize from there. And we need to decide if we want to commit to having a bilingual population or not. 4 years of high school any language isn’t enough. If we want our kids to speak another language, it needs to be a core subject starting in ES. Or, we need to let it go. But, like Calculus, only a small percentage of kids actually use their high school language.

Game theory? We have so many issues to get through before game theory can even start as an opportunity for high schools; also anyone whose career is utilizing game theory should seriously be taking calculus and is a STEM student.
post reply Forum Index » College and University Discussion
Message Quick Reply
Go to: