State report says 7 Virginia universities should be monitored as enrollment cliff approaches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The naming convention of VA publics is dumb and counter to what other states do to create a brand. Both public and private college options are also pretty pathetic in terms of selectivity and options. The schools generally are in armpit areas of the state compared to other states that place their schools in cities or have a well established college town. The schools should basically be as cheap or cheaper than other states because of these failings. A flagship in another state will have more brand recognition even if they are (at least of) equal rigor than any of the respective state schools in VA they are ranked closely with, including UVA and Tech. The fact that, all other things being equal, almost every high performing kid in VA will choose to go to an out-of-state school if given the chance is damning.

So much opinion, so little fact.

So you haven't lived out of state. (We've live in several real states with real colleges.) And you don't know any smart kids? (We know several dozen high performers from different states.) Yours is a typical provincial, townie response from people that don't understand that these are the facts. There're no Disneyland ride lines of out-of-staters trying to get into any Virginia school, public or private, as there are for many, many schools in numerous other states. At least MD has JHU and DC has Georgetown.

This isn't true at all. A lot of out-of-staters want to get into UVA and W&M. And yes, I have lived in several states other than VA. VA has better in-state colleges than any of them. I am actually here in VA because I was once an out-of-stater who came here to attend an in-state school and then stayed.

+1
Plenty of OOS students trying to get into VT as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

So you’d send your own kids there?
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

Absolutely this! Social media and USN&WR have hurt many good schools. Instead of kids applying to schools that their neighbor, or cousin, or dentist attended, they can apply to schools with the click of a button and they all want the same “big name” schools, although the less popular school may be the better choice. People are sheep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

Longwood is basically open admission. The kid with the 1100 SAT (their median) probably isn't concerned with prestige. They are bad schools because they don't have compelling offerings and they are located in the middle of nowhere

Plenty of LAC’s are located in the middle of nowhere and are highly selective. Let’s not pretend Longwood’s academic offerings are not comprehensive enough or that Farmville isn’t charming. Snobs will never give it a fair shake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

So you’d send your own kids there?
DP

Gladly. Why wouldn’t you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford alumna here. Former campus tour guide, student leader and now active volunteer
with a particular interest in recruitment.

Radford has lost its identity and origin story that is nearly identical to JMU’s; both began as all-female state normal schools for teacher training. Both schools were purposely selected for geographical convenience to efficiently address the needs for college educated teachers to staff schools in their respective areas.

JMU and Radford went coed and gained university status roughly same time yet Radford has struggled to close the 4:1 female :male ratio and I’d argue, poured money into expanding programs that were too innovative.
Radford lost ground soon after going coed, while JMU leapt ahead and surpassed it.

RU became the easy-entry/safe/party school (and the only college that would accept me) while JMU got the clever moniker of Just Missed U(VA).

Below from Radford library archives:


Radford College was merged with Virginia Polytechnic Institute in 1944, becoming Radford College, the Women's Division of Virginia Polytechnic Institute, a formal arrangement that lasted until 1964. This collection includes preliminary studies about the merger, letters from Governor Colgate Darden, enrollment studies, newspaper clippings pertaining to the merger, correspondence and internal memos related to curricular and structural logistics and problems related to the merger, reports to the Board of Visitors, and detailed studies about the impact of the merger on the Home Economics Departments at both schools.

Very interesting. Which programs at Radford were too innovative? [/quote

PP Maybe mischaracterized but first thought was Davis College of Business.
Read the room, Radford. Focus upon providing a solid liberal arts education, and heavily promote solid majors and departments of speech & communication disorders, nursing and educating future teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

this

it isn't official as it used to be, but socioeconomic segregation tends to frequently be racial, as well.

I wish I knew how to fix it - it is such a difficult, complex issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

Longwood is basically open admission. The kid with the 1100 SAT (their median) probably isn't concerned with prestige. They are bad schools because they don't have compelling offerings and they are located in the middle of nowhere

Plenty of LAC’s are located in the middle of nowhere and are highly selective. Let’s not pretend Longwood’s academic offerings are not comprehensive enough or that Farmville isn’t charming. Snobs will never give it a fair shake.

Those LACS offer something students want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

So you’d send your own kids there?
DP

Gladly. Why wouldn’t you?

I'm with you. I haven't seen it in person, but I did see Longwood on TV when they hosted a presidential debate a few years back AND researched it for my now college freshman. I would have happily sent my child there. 2 of the families we knew from her girl scout troop in ES sent their girls to Longwood and they seem very happy.

Radford was my daughter's second choice, and there has already been talk of a transfer (it was a tough moment, but still) Several kids from her senior class went there. I would happily send her there. They just built a gorgeous new arts building that I think will actually be a draw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

Longwood is basically open admission. The kid with the 1100 SAT (their median) probably isn't concerned with prestige. They are bad schools because they don't have compelling offerings and they are located in the middle of nowhere

Plenty of LAC’s are located in the middle of nowhere and are highly selective. Let’s not pretend Longwood’s academic offerings are not comprehensive enough or that Farmville isn’t charming. Snobs will never give it a fair shake.

Those LACS offer something students want.

Like what? And don’t say a ranking or something about prestige

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford alumna here. Former campus tour guide, student leader and now active volunteer
with a particular interest in recruitment.

Radford has lost its identity and origin story that is nearly identical to JMU’s; both began as all-female state normal schools for teacher training. Both schools were purposely selected for geographical convenience to efficiently address the needs for college educated teachers to staff schools in their respective areas.

JMU and Radford went coed and gained university status roughly same time yet Radford has struggled to close the 4:1 female :male ratio and I’d argue, poured money into expanding programs that were too innovative.
Radford lost ground soon after going coed, while JMU leapt ahead and surpassed it.

RU became the easy-entry/safe/party school (and the only college that would accept me) while JMU got the clever moniker of Just Missed U(VA).

Below from Radford library archives:


Radford College was merged with Virginia Polytechnic Institute in 1944, becoming Radford College, the Women's Division of Virginia Polytechnic Institute, a formal arrangement that lasted until 1964. This collection includes preliminary studies about the merger, letters from Governor Colgate Darden, enrollment studies, newspaper clippings pertaining to the merger, correspondence and internal memos related to curricular and structural logistics and problems related to the merger, reports to the Board of Visitors, and detailed studies about the impact of the merger on the Home Economics Departments at both schools.

Very interesting. Which programs at Radford were too innovative? [/quote

PP Maybe mischaracterized but first thought was Davis College of Business.
Read the room, Radford. Focus upon providing a solid liberal arts education, and heavily promote solid majors and departments of speech & communication disorders, nursing and educating future teachers.

Business is popular at Radford and they have a new building

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

So you’d send your own kids there?
DP

Gladly. Why wouldn’t you?

Because they are schools that don't have good outcomes and I want better for my kids. But knock yourself out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Radford was part of Tech for a while

ODU was part of W&M

I think ODU is underrated, really, and Radford is a nice little campus.

Why did the state let the top 3 grow so much? It seems pretty obvious that growing those schools by a lot hurts the smaller schools.

It's stupid that public schools based in one area of the state are allowed to cannibalize public schools in other parts of the state. If there's so much demand, then either fund the existing schools to up their level or create another school which will probably be more beneficial (profitable??) than these haphazardly placed satellite campuses. It also demonstrates that the current state model of VA publics is a failure.

It wouldn't be discussed if some public schools weren't failures. When a school is bleeding students, something needs to change and the answer isn't forcing students to go to a school they have no interest in attending just to please administrators and faculty.

Students and parents also need better college counseling. Some of these colleges could be great for a lot of kids if students weren’t obsessed with social media and parents weren’t drooling over prestige.

So you’d send your own kids there?
DP

Gladly. Why wouldn’t you?

Because they are schools that don't have good outcomes and I want better for my kids. But knock yourself out!

PP here - sorry, I thought we were talking about VA State. I would absolutely send my kids to Mary Washington, CNU, Longwood, etc.