Abortion messaging needs to change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Abortion after a certain set of weeks is murder.

Also, we need to be fair. If a woman can abort her child and kill her baby, men should be able to sign over their rights and walk away completely too.

If a woman wants to kill her baby and the man wants to keep it, he has no recourse. That happened to me. I would have taken full custody but she decided murder was the best route.

If a man wants to walk away he's under the financial burden for 18+ years. He can even go to jail for not paying.

So if you want to kill your babies then men should be able to walk away from them too. The other solution is both parties agree to killing the child. If father doesn't want to he gets to take the child and the mother signs away rights.

Otherwise as it stands, it shows women are incapable of complex decisions because they can abort a "mistake" or keep the "mistake" and the man is on the hook.

You know why you had no say? Because it wasn’t your body working for 9 months to produce a baby in a process that could potentially be lethal to you. That’s why. Your girlfriend was not your slave.

Pregnancy is work. It’s 24/7 of workfor 9 months with no time off. And it is work that can turn deadly in the blink of an eye for any woman at any time during that entire 9 months and even for a time afterwards. It can maim the worker who performs the labor and create a lifetime of physical and even mental health issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Abortion after a certain set of weeks is murder.

Also, we need to be fair. If a woman can abort her child and kill her baby, men should be able to sign over their rights and walk away completely too.

If a woman wants to kill her baby and the man wants to keep it, he has no recourse. That happened to me. I would have taken full custody but she decided murder was the best route.

If a man wants to walk away he's under the financial burden for 18+ years. He can even go to jail for not paying.

So if you want to kill your babies then men should be able to walk away from them too. The other solution is both parties agree to killing the child. If father doesn't want to he gets to take the child and the mother signs away rights.

Otherwise as it stands, it shows women are incapable of complex decisions because they can abort a "mistake" or keep the "mistake" and the man is on the hook.

So much to unpack here.

To be fair, I have known more men who have signed over their rights than women who have had abortions. Happens a lot.

Somebody should have explained this to you around the time you hit puberty: When you sleep with a woman, there is always a chance she will become pregnant. If she does, this does not mean you own her body, you silly goose! If she has a relationship with you and respects you, she will most likely want you to be part of the decision. So, if you don’t want to risk it, maybe avoid one night stands? Pregnancy takes a huge toll on a woman’s body. It takes years for the body to recover. She can’t be forced to carry a baby for 9 months and then turn it over to her one night stand.

I do understand the heartbreak a man might experience if he wanted the baby. I really do. The only way to maybe avoid this situation is to talk about this before sleeping together to make sure you are on the same page. Even that is not certain though, because she still has the right to change her mind.

Good luck!

The main way to avoid it is for men to avoid sex with premenopausal women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP and I regret starting this thread because, as a democrat, I am so embarrassed by most of the responses. To any moderates or undecided voters out there, please know that this thread in no know represents the views and attitude of most democrats. Most democrats I know in real life truly enjoy conversations with people of differing viewpoints and perspectives.

For those of you still struggling to find my point, it is this:

Democrats could expand their reach by extending their message to voters whose views on abortion are more moderate. They could state that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare so that every woman can make the choice that suits her.

At no point did I say that abortion decisions based on lifestyle should be illegal. I guess you were confused because I stated that it is not in line with my values. Here’s what I think the problem might be. As a society, we have come to equate our own values with what the law should be. So when I said that I am not in favor of abortion based solely on lifestyle, you assumed I wanted it to be illegal. It is possible to have your own set of values, your own religious beliefs, and advocate for your beliefs without forcing them on anyone or trying to make them the law.

I did not assume you thought “lifestyle” abortions should be illegal, but that you personally judged them in a different way, and I believe that is morally inconsistent on your part. After all, abortion is not murder, then what is it? If it is nothing at all, then why is a “lifestyle” abortion any different than getting your hair cut? Why even talk about it? Specifically, what are “your values” that a “lifestyle” abortion is not consistent with?

You had no right to assume I would judge others for their decision. You might be shocked to know that people can sit back and watch others make decisions they would not make for themselves without judging them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP and I regret starting this thread because, as a democrat, I am so embarrassed by most of the responses. To any moderates or undecided voters out there, please know that this thread in no know represents the views and attitude of most democrats. Most democrats I know in real life truly enjoy conversations with people of differing viewpoints and perspectives.

For those of you still struggling to find my point, it is this:

Democrats could expand their reach by extending their message to voters whose views on abortion are more moderate. They could state that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare so that every woman can make the choice that suits her.

At no point did I say that abortion decisions based on lifestyle should be illegal. I guess you were confused because I stated that it is not in line with my values. Here’s what I think the problem might be. As a society, we have come to equate our own values with what the law should be. So when I said that I am not in favor of abortion based solely on lifestyle, you assumed I wanted it to be illegal. It is possible to have your own set of values, your own religious beliefs, and advocate for your beliefs without forcing them on anyone or trying to make them the law.

I did not assume you thought “lifestyle” abortions should be illegal, but that you personally judged them in a different way, and I believe that is morally inconsistent on your part. After all, abortion is not murder, then what is it? If it is nothing at all, then why is a “lifestyle” abortion any different than getting your hair cut? Why even talk about it? Specifically, what are “your values” that a “lifestyle” abortion is not consistent with?

You had no right to assume I would judge others for their decision. You might be shocked to know that people can sit back and watch others make decisions they would not make for themselves without judging them!

Then why even mention it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other words, here’s an example of what that messaging can look like:

“As Americans, we are extremely diverse in our values and religious beliefs. That’s what this country was founded on. Abortion and family planning is a deeply personal matter, and it should not be dictated by politicians. Whether you are pro-abortion, anti-abortion, or somewhere in the middle, you should be able to make the decision that is right for you. Therefore, abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.”

But this is the message. Don't get an abortion if you are against it, and don't dictate to other what is a healthcare decision. As for legal, safe and rare, change "rare" with accessible and we're good. The rarity puts a judgment on it that inherently blames women.

[Anonymous]

OP, what does this mean, then?

“I don’t entirely disagree with them, but only when it comes to abortion based solely on lifestyle choice.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In other words, here’s an example of what that messaging can look like:

“As Americans, we are extremely diverse in our values and religious beliefs. That’s what this country was founded on. Abortion and family planning is a deeply personal matter, and it should not be dictated by politicians. Whether you are pro-abortion, anti-abortion, or somewhere in the middle, you should be able to make the decision that is right for you. Therefore, abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.”

But this is the message. Don't get an abortion if you are against it, and don't dictate to other what is a healthcare decision. As for legal, safe and rare, change "rare" with accessible and we're good. The rarity puts a judgment on it that inherently blames women.

EXACTLY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Liberal Christian Woman. There are many of us out there, and we are not even rare. We just aren’t being heard or considered on the topic of abortion, so every now and then I feel the need to point out the fact that we exist. I am not asking anyone to agree with my beliefs. I am just asking that you consider the fact that the messaging on both sides does not reflect the beliefs of so many of us. It is (unbelievably!) a close election, and here’s a demographic that is untapped.

The right is telling us that abortion is always murder. Period. Some say there are exceptions, but their policies do not reflect that. Democrats say that abortion=women’s rights, women’s health. Period. Many of us are somewhere in the middle.

I honestly wish the democrats would stop talking about abortion. Anyone who is open to understanding how disastrous the GOP is for women’s rights, health, and safety has already turned. the women who are left in the GOP will never see any gray area when it comes to abortion. They see it as the baby’s right to life in all circumstances. This is a deeply rooted, religious belief, and no policy or politician will change it. As a Christian Democrat, I don’t entirely disagree with them, but only when it comes to abortion based solely on lifestyle choice. I wish we could find a way to separate abortion as a lifestyle choice from the rest of it (health of mom and baby, rape and incest, family planning, procedures like D&Cs). But we lump it all together. D’s messaging really stinks when it comes to women’s rights. They let the GOP ramble on about 3rd trimester and post-birth abortions without even attempting to shut that down. I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp. Many Christians are. The message needs to be that the decision is made by women with input from their chosen support group, which could include partner, family, doctor, clergy. Yes, women need to be told by democrats that they support them leaning on clergy instead of politicians.

In all other aspects, I agree with Democrats - BC, women’s rights, abortion due to rape, incest, or medical conditions.

So many of us are perplexed by the following Trump has among Christians. Biden has been a devout Catholic his entire life. Trump isn’t even a real Christian and in no way lives in the spirit of Jesus, to put it mildly. But many Christians see it this way - Abortion is simply worse than anything he has done. Because they believe abortion=murder, and it doesn’t get any worse than murder. It is a very black and white issue for them. But a lot of us Christians do not fall in line with this. We just need messaging that considers those of us in the middle when it comes to abortion.

I dont care about your religious beliefs. Simple. They are not laws to be enforced on those who do not believe what you believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other words, here’s an example of what that messaging can look like:

“As Americans, we are extremely diverse in our values and religious beliefs. That’s what this country was founded on. Abortion and family planning is a deeply personal matter, and it should not be dictated by politicians. Whether you are pro-abortion, anti-abortion, or somewhere in the middle, you should be able to make the decision that is right for you. Therefore, abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.”

Have you ever thought why you need to be identified in the message if you believe in the outcome? Why is religion even being discussed on a national level? Your personal relationship with Jesus needs to be directly messaged to?

No, lady that's needing to be catered to.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.

Freedom of religion also means that I am free from the influence of YOUR religion as well. Jewish law states that life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. Why should Christianity overrule Judaism?

Again, Christians can have freedom of religion- they don't have to get abortions. Your religion does NOT get to dictate what others do.

Yep, and that’s exact why the fourth sentence of my original post says that I am not asking anyone to agree with me. That is why I have repeatedly said that I think abortion should be legal for all because we all have such varying views.

Nope. Each state can decide for themselves if they want to have abortion restrictions and at one point. It’s not for some New Yorker to decide what the voters of Alabama want to do about abortion. Don’t like it? Move.

Nope. What I choose to do with my body and uterus is a fundamental right. You can't "states rights" away fundamental rights. See slavery.

You say that, but the law disagrees with you. Sorry!

Abortion will never go away. It will just go underground. Sorry!

Someday someone you care about will be affected by that law negatively and well, womp womp.

So. True. In the 1960's, my mother's best friend fell pregnant by her HS boyfriend and he refused to marry her. She tried to abort by douching with lye. When she didn't answer her mother's knocking on the door in the morning her father and brother knocked down the door
They found her dead in the bathtub.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't force a woman to give birth. Sorry!

Yes. You can. Texas and other states are doing so now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.

Freedom of religion also means that I am free from the influence of YOUR religion as well. Jewish law states that life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. Why should Christianity overrule Judaism?

Again, Christians can have freedom of religion- they don't have to get abortions. Your religion does NOT get to dictate what others do.

Yep, and that’s exact why the fourth sentence of my original post says that I am not asking anyone to agree with me. That is why I have repeatedly said that I think abortion should be legal for all because we all have such varying views.

Nope. Each state can decide for themselves if they want to have abortion restrictions and at one point. It’s not for some New Yorker to decide what the voters of Alabama want to do about abortion. Don’t like it? Move.

Nope. What I choose to do with my body and uterus is a fundamental right. You can't "states rights" away fundamental rights. See slavery.

You say that, but the law disagrees with you. Sorry!

The law changes. Sorry! Women will get their rights back

The law can absolutely change! There are mechanisms for this. At the federal level, you can push for a constitutional amendment. Good luck getting the states you need for that. And then there’s the state level. By all means, convince the people in deep red states that they should have elective abortions through the third trimester.

The good news is that there aren’t “elective” third trimester (that’s 27 weeks for those ignorant about pregnancy) abortions. So no one needs to go around convincing anyone of that.

But don’t you worry. At some point after some republicans’ daughters or wives have died because of abortion bans then the pendulum will swing back. One can only hope n

Sadly. They won't. Children are mowed down in schools and the political party that "prays together stays together" refuses to pass sensible gun legislation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing with abortion as a "lifestyle choice". Things happen.

Birth control fails.

Sometimes the circumstances after we get pregnant change and it is no longer a good option to have a baby, ie: the father leaves, job loss, etc.

Also, we are humans, mistakes happen, and there are some women who just do not have the capacity to raise a child.

Either way, as a Christian, the Bible tells us, "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Abortion laws should not be determined based on who should have one and who shouldn't. It makes every women go through some sort of test as to whether or not she should be allowed to have an abortion. This is already a devastating situation for women to walk into an abortion clinic or hospital, and to have that extra layer of trauma is just cruel. Just let women live their lives.

Yep, which is why I have repeatedly said that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.

You seem to be in favor of lifestyle abortions. Im not, but I respect your right to make your own choice. Which is why the law should allow for each of us to make our own choice.

But the democrats don’t want abortion to be rare, and they oppose the Hyde amendment so they want you to pay for it.

Please back up you outrageous statement with proof.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Give up OP. Your fellow Democrats only see red in this user and cannot think logically or emphatically. You have people out there messaging how proud they are of their abortions. It is one thing for abortion to be legal. Quite another to be proud. The messaging is so far gone it is an echo chamber. They are not at all trying to find a middle ground/consensus.

There is no middle ground anymore. What does that even mean. Most dems believe in abortion up to the time of viability. That's a fact. The right's language about abortion through the 9th month is ridiculous.

The right is emphatic about no abortion under any circumstances. We thought we had middle ground in America and Rs destroyed that.

The middle ground is roe. The right rejected that middle ground. Now the right is paying the consequences at the ballot box. That is how the system should work I suppose.

That is how we settle our differences so go out and vote. On this issue, the significant majority of votes are just not with the right.

I think it’s funny you think the rights is paying at the ballot box. Sure looking good to me these days, as a Republican.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.

Freedom of religion also means that I am free from the influence of YOUR religion as well. Jewish law states that life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. Why should Christianity overrule Judaism?

Again, Christians can have freedom of religion- they don't have to get abortions. Your religion does NOT get to dictate what others do.

Yep, and that’s exact why the fourth sentence of my original post says that I am not asking anyone to agree with me. That is why I have repeatedly said that I think abortion should be legal for all because we all have such varying views.

Nope. Each state can decide for themselves if they want to have abortion restrictions and at one point. It’s not for some New Yorker to decide what the voters of Alabama want to do about abortion. Don’t like it? Move.

Nope. What I choose to do with my body and uterus is a fundamental right. You can't "states rights" away fundamental rights. See slavery.

You say that, but the law disagrees with you. Sorry!

The law changes. Sorry! Women will get their rights back

The law can absolutely change! There are mechanisms for this. At the federal level, you can push for a constitutional amendment. Good luck getting the states you need for that. And then there’s the state level. By all means, convince the people in deep red states that they should have elective abortions through the third trimester.

The good news is that there aren’t “elective” third trimester (that’s 27 weeks for those ignorant about pregnancy) abortions. So no one needs to go around convincing anyone of that.

But don’t you worry. At some point after some republicans’ daughters or wives have died because of abortion bans then the pendulum will swing back. One can only hope n

Elective abortion in the third trimester are rare but they do happen. Published medical studies on the reasons show it can be due to delays in seeking abortion care, finances, issues with the man in question but yes they do happen.