Abortion messaging needs to change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am also a Christian woman, and I am moderate but lean left on this issue.

You lost me at “lifestyle choice”.
What on earth is a “lifestyle choice” abortion??
Do you think women do this for fun?
I’ll extend the benefit of doubt to you. Maybe you are referring to the amount of abuse that goes on and is able to be hidden from society due to the existence of abortion, but I wouldn’t call that anyone’s “lifestyle choice”.

If you are referring to women getting abortions in order to avoid the strain on their finances, then how is that unborn baby’s life more valuable than one being aborted due to being conceived by rape?

You might mean well but you seriously need better word choices.

Here’s an example. My friend was considering abortion. She and her husband were in a good place, financially. They already had 2 kids and their marriage was strong. She wanted a third kid, but she wanted it to be a couple of years later. She was just at a point where her older kids were more independent and she was hoping to pursue her hobbies for awhile and they wanted to buy a new house. She completely acknowledged that this would have been a decision based on lifestyle, and I would agree. I would never have chosen to get an abortion in that situation, but I support her right to make that decision for herself.

Are you OP?

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing with abortion as a "lifestyle choice". Things happen.

Birth control fails.

Sometimes the circumstances after we get pregnant change and it is no longer a good option to have a baby, ie: the father leaves, job loss, etc.

Also, we are humans, mistakes happen, and there are some women who just do not have the capacity to raise a child.

Either way, as a Christian, the Bible tells us, "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Abortion laws should not be determined based on who should have one and who shouldn't. It makes every women go through some sort of test as to whether or not she should be allowed to have an abortion. This is already a devastating situation for women to walk into an abortion clinic or hospital, and to have that extra layer of trauma is just cruel. Just let women live their lives.

Yep, which is why I have repeatedly said that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.

You seem to be in favor of lifestyle abortions. Im not, but I respect your right to make your own choice. Which is why the law should allow for each of us to make our own choice.

Okay. You’re just a troll. Thank you for letting us know.

What did I say that is trolling? Is it the part where I said I respect your right to make your own choice? Or is it the part where I said (for the tenth time) that I think it should be legal, safe, and rare?

Vote for Democrats. That is the correct messaging on abortion rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am also a Christian woman, and I am moderate but lean left on this issue.

You lost me at “lifestyle choice”.
What on earth is a “lifestyle choice” abortion??
Do you think women do this for fun?
I’ll extend the benefit of doubt to you. Maybe you are referring to the amount of abuse that goes on and is able to be hidden from society due to the existence of abortion, but I wouldn’t call that anyone’s “lifestyle choice”.

If you are referring to women getting abortions in order to avoid the strain on their finances, then how is that unborn baby’s life more valuable than one being aborted due to being conceived by rape?

You might mean well but you seriously need better word choices.

Here’s an example. My friend was considering abortion. She and her husband were in a good place, financially. They already had 2 kids and their marriage was strong. She wanted a third kid, but she wanted it to be a couple of years later. She was just at a point where her older kids were more independent and she was hoping to pursue her hobbies for awhile and they wanted to buy a new house. She completely acknowledged that this would have been a decision based on lifestyle, and I would agree. I would never have chosen to get an abortion in that situation, but I support her right to make that decision for herself.

Are you OP?

Yes

What can't you stay out of her business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Liberal Christian Woman. There are many of us out there, and we are not even rare. We just aren’t being heard or considered on the topic of abortion, so every now and then I feel the need to point out the fact that we exist. I am not asking anyone to agree with my beliefs. I am just asking that you consider the fact that the messaging on both sides does not reflect the beliefs of so many of us. It is (unbelievably!) a close election, and here’s a demographic that is untapped.

The right is telling us that abortion is always murder. Period. Some say there are exceptions, but their policies do not reflect that. Democrats say that abortion=women’s rights, women’s health. Period. Many of us are somewhere in the middle.

I honestly wish the democrats would stop talking about abortion. Anyone who is open to understanding how disastrous the GOP is for women’s rights, health, and safety has already turned. the women who are left in the GOP will never see any gray area when it comes to abortion. They see it as the baby’s right to life in all circumstances. This is a deeply rooted, religious belief, and no policy or politician will change it. As a Christian Democrat, I don’t entirely disagree with them, but only when it comes to abortion based solely on lifestyle choice. I wish we could find a way to separate abortion as a lifestyle choice from the rest of it (health of mom and baby, rape and incest, family planning, procedures like D&Cs). But we lump it all together. D’s messaging really stinks when it comes to women’s rights. They let the GOP ramble on about 3rd trimester and post-birth abortions without even attempting to shut that down. I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp. Many Christians are. The message needs to be that the decision is made by women with input from their chosen support group, which could include partner, family, doctor, clergy. Yes, women need to be told by democrats that they support them leaning on clergy instead of politicians.

In all other aspects, I agree with Democrats - BC, women’s rights, abortion due to rape, incest, or medical conditions.

So many of us are perplexed by the following Trump has among Christians. Biden has been a devout Catholic his entire life. Trump isn’t even a real Christian and in no way lives in the spirit of Jesus, to put it mildly. But many Christians see it this way - Abortion is simply worse than anything he has done. Because they believe abortion=murder, and it doesn’t get any worse than murder. It is a very black and white issue for them. But a lot of us Christians do not fall in line with this. We just need messaging that considers those of us in the middle when it comes to abortion.

Yes, it is lumped together. Because the “reason” for the abortion has no bearing on whether the abortion is ending a human life. It either is, or it isn’t. If it is, then it must not be allowed ever. If it isn’t, then the woman’s “reason” does not matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am also a Christian woman, and I am moderate but lean left on this issue.

You lost me at “lifestyle choice”.
What on earth is a “lifestyle choice” abortion??
Do you think women do this for fun?
I’ll extend the benefit of doubt to you. Maybe you are referring to the amount of abuse that goes on and is able to be hidden from society due to the existence of abortion, but I wouldn’t call that anyone’s “lifestyle choice”.

If you are referring to women getting abortions in order to avoid the strain on their finances, then how is that unborn baby’s life more valuable than one being aborted due to being conceived by rape?

You might mean well but you seriously need better word choices.

Here’s an example. My friend was considering abortion. She and her husband were in a good place, financially. They already had 2 kids and their marriage was strong. She wanted a third kid, but she wanted it to be a couple of years later. She was just at a point where her older kids were more independent and she was hoping to pursue her hobbies for awhile and they wanted to buy a new house. She completely acknowledged that this would have been a decision based on lifestyle, and I would agree. I would never have chosen to get an abortion in that situation, but I support her right to make that decision for herself.

Are you OP?

Yes

What can't you stay out of her business.

OP, your initial post implied that you felt that abortions for “lifestyle” reasons should be judged differently from other ones.

[Anonymous]

The message is simple, OP, and I think that abortion advocates are doing a good job of messaging it:

Abortion should be between a woman and her doctor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing with abortion as a "lifestyle choice". Things happen.

Birth control fails.

Sometimes the circumstances after we get pregnant change and it is no longer a good option to have a baby, ie: the father leaves, job loss, etc.

Also, we are humans, mistakes happen, and there are some women who just do not have the capacity to raise a child.

Either way, as a Christian, the Bible tells us, "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Abortion laws should not be determined based on who should have one and who shouldn't. It makes every women go through some sort of test as to whether or not she should be allowed to have an abortion. This is already a devastating situation for women to walk into an abortion clinic or hospital, and to have that extra layer of trauma is just cruel. Just let women live their lives.

Yep, which is why I have repeatedly said that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.

You seem to be in favor of lifestyle abortions. Im not, but I respect your right to make your own choice. Which is why the law should allow for each of us to make our own choice.

Okay. You’re just a troll. Thank you for letting us know.

What did I say that is trolling? Is it the part where I said I respect your right to make your own choice? Or is it the part where I said (for the tenth time) that I think it should be legal, safe, and rare?

Abortion was getting rarer and rarer since 1973.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing with abortion as a "lifestyle choice". Things happen.

Birth control fails.

Sometimes the circumstances after we get pregnant change and it is no longer a good option to have a baby, ie: the father leaves, job loss, etc.

Also, we are humans, mistakes happen, and there are some women who just do not have the capacity to raise a child.

Either way, as a Christian, the Bible tells us, "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Abortion laws should not be determined based on who should have one and who shouldn't. It makes every women go through some sort of test as to whether or not she should be allowed to have an abortion. This is already a devastating situation for women to walk into an abortion clinic or hospital, and to have that extra layer of trauma is just cruel. Just let women live their lives.

Yep, which is why I have repeatedly said that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare.

You seem to be in favor of lifestyle abortions. Im not, but I respect your right to make your own choice. Which is why the law should allow for each of us to make our own choice.

DP, but OP, you really are missing the point. I don’t know a lot of people who are “in favor” of lifestyle abortions. No one here cares what you yourself would do if you were in your friend’s situation. If you respect someone’s right to make their own choice about it, then you would in the other circumstances too, right? Would you judge a woman for NOT getting an abortion if it was a result of rape? You need to step away from the idea that your opinion or feelings matter one whit about someone’s abortion being “valid” or not.

[Anonymous]

I am the OP and I regret starting this thread because, as a democrat, I am so embarrassed by most of the responses. To any moderates or undecided voters out there, please know that this thread in no know represents the views and attitude of most democrats. Most democrats I know in real life truly enjoy conversations with people of differing viewpoints and perspectives.

For those of you still struggling to find my point, it is this:

Democrats could expand their reach by extending their message to voters whose views on abortion are more moderate. They could state that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare so that every woman can make the choice that suits her.

At no point did I say that abortion decisions based on lifestyle should be illegal. I guess you were confused because I stated that it is not in line with my values. Here’s what I think the problem might be. As a society, we have come to equate our own values with what the law should be. So when I said that I am not in favor of abortion based solely on lifestyle, you assumed I wanted it to be illegal. It is possible to have your own set of values, your own religious beliefs, and advocate for your beliefs without forcing them on anyone or trying to make them the law.

[Anonymous]

Abortion after a certain set of weeks is murder.

Also, we need to be fair. If a woman can abort her child and kill her baby, men should be able to sign over their rights and walk away completely too.

If a woman wants to kill her baby and the man wants to keep it, he has no recourse. That happened to me. I would have taken full custody but she decided murder was the best route.

If a man wants to walk away he's under the financial burden for 18+ years. He can even go to jail for not paying.

So if you want to kill your babies then men should be able to walk away from them too. The other solution is both parties agree to killing the child. If father doesn't want to he gets to take the child and the mother signs away rights.

Otherwise as it stands, it shows women are incapable of complex decisions because they can abort a "mistake" or keep the "mistake" and the man is on the hook.

[Anonymous]

Are you saying abortions aren't related to women's health? Because a lot of women who experience miscarriage need abortions to not die. That seems like it's women's health to me.

It's not clear to me what you consider "the middle" but what is clear to me is that since the overturning of Roe v Wade abortion rights are a winning issue for Democrats and they should keep doing what they're doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you saying abortions aren't related to women's health? Because a lot of women who experience miscarriage need abortions to not die. That seems like it's women's health to me.

It's not clear to me what you consider "the middle" but what is clear to me is that since the overturning of Roe v Wade abortion rights are a winning issue for Democrats and they should keep doing what they're doing.

Go read my op where I stated where I am in the middle. Tired of repeating myself. I also made it clear that I think health of mom/baby is a valid reason for abortion.

Democracy is on the line. Right now, a psychotic rapist, felon, con-artist, racist lunatic has a chokehold on half of the country. It is a dead heat. So I think the democrats could stand to improve their messaging…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP and I regret starting this thread because, as a democrat, I am so embarrassed by most of the responses. To any moderates or undecided voters out there, please know that this thread in no know represents the views and attitude of most democrats. Most democrats I know in real life truly enjoy conversations with people of differing viewpoints and perspectives.

For those of you still struggling to find my point, it is this:

Democrats could expand their reach by extending their message to voters whose views on abortion are more moderate. They could state that abortion should be legal, safe, and rare so that every woman can make the choice that suits her.

At no point did I say that abortion decisions based on lifestyle should be illegal. I guess you were confused because I stated that it is not in line with my values. Here’s what I think the problem might be. As a society, we have come to equate our own values with what the law should be. So when I said that I am not in favor of abortion based solely on lifestyle, you assumed I wanted it to be illegal. It is possible to have your own set of values, your own religious beliefs, and advocate for your beliefs without forcing them on anyone or trying to make them the law.

I did not assume you thought “lifestyle” abortions should be illegal, but that you personally judged them in a different way, and I believe that is morally inconsistent on your part. After all, abortion is not murder, then what is it? If it is nothing at all, then why is a “lifestyle” abortion any different than getting your hair cut? Why even talk about it? Specifically, what are “your values” that a “lifestyle” abortion is not consistent with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saying abortions aren't related to women's health? Because a lot of women who experience miscarriage need abortions to not die. That seems like it's women's health to me.

It's not clear to me what you consider "the middle" but what is clear to me is that since the overturning of Roe v Wade abortion rights are a winning issue for Democrats and they should keep doing what they're doing.

Go read my op where I stated where I am in the middle. Tired of repeating myself. I also made it clear that I think health of mom/baby is a valid reason for abortion.

Democracy is on the line. Right now, a psychotic rapist, felon, con-artist, racist lunatic has a chokehold on half of the country. It is a dead heat. So I think the democrats could stand to improve their messaging…

The fact that you think there are valid and invalid reasons for abortions makes you not in the middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Abortion after a certain set of weeks is murder.

Also, we need to be fair. If a woman can abort her child and kill her baby, men should be able to sign over their rights and walk away completely too.

If a woman wants to kill her baby and the man wants to keep it, he has no recourse. That happened to me. I would have taken full custody but she decided murder was the best route.

If a man wants to walk away he's under the financial burden for 18+ years. He can even go to jail for not paying.

So if you want to kill your babies then men should be able to walk away from them too. The other solution is both parties agree to killing the child. If father doesn't want to he gets to take the child and the mother signs away rights.

Otherwise as it stands, it shows women are incapable of complex decisions because they can abort a "mistake" or keep the "mistake" and the man is on the hook.

So much to unpack here.

To be fair, I have known more men who have signed over their rights than women who have had abortions. Happens a lot.

Somebody should have explained this to you around the time you hit puberty: When you sleep with a woman, there is always a chance she will become pregnant. If she does, this does not mean you own her body, you silly goose! If she has a relationship with you and respects you, she will most likely want you to be part of the decision. So, if you don’t want to risk it, maybe avoid one night stands? Pregnancy takes a huge toll on a woman’s body. It takes years for the body to recover. She can’t be forced to carry a baby for 9 months and then turn it over to her one night stand.

I do understand the heartbreak a man might experience if he wanted the baby. I really do. The only way to maybe avoid this situation is to talk about this before sleeping together to make sure you are on the same page. Even that is not certain though, because she still has the right to change her mind.

Good luck!