Can I salvage my career after SAHM 22 years?

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



Really have to circle back to this bit of crazy. Maybe I'm way behind on generic tesring, but a test that evaluates your genetic capability to process "toxins" (which involves everything from live and kidney function to nostril hairs) seems like witch doctor.

I am guessing that testing was done by the holistic doctors who also sold you treatments? Did they say what toxins were at fault?

Did you test your home for toxins, most dangerous ones like lead and mold can be mediated.

It's impossible to reverse COPD, so have you simply halted it's progression or perhaps were misdiagnosed for asthma?

This whole aside makes me suspect of your critical thinking; as a home schooling SAHM you may have been very isolated and iit can wear on mental faculties. Did your DH travel a lot and have long hours?


Another big LOL, it’s usually the conventional ones who are incapable of critical thinking or mental curiosity and are very narrow-minded and thinking there is just one way to do something. Have they not learned anything from the huge shift that occurred as a result of the pandemic.

As to health issues, I think PP needs to just shut up and be grateful she is not experiencing this


That said, OP, I think you should consider revealing less - whether it’s on this forum or elsewhere. People don’t understand and you don’t need to make them understand and your health is your private business - they’ll just ding you for oversharing and not being professional.

Rooting for you
Anonymous
OP-- Apply for jobs. That's the only way. I believe you can do it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Join the Federal govt they hire washed up lawyers


Someone sounds super jealous of government attorneys! Ha HA HA HA!
Anonymous
With the additional info from OP, I would just suggest doc review again. It won’t be that rewarding but OP has not really kept any sort of foot in the legal world. Like, do you realize how much Lexis and Westlaw and legal research have changed in the past 20 years? Even the state of law with these new Court precedents from the past several years have changed the status quo from when you graduated law school. I would hire this person for doc review, but I would not hire this person with basically zero legal experience and no current legal technology know-how or training for a legal job where you need to hit the ground running. They have done nothing to prove themselves, sorry, jmho.

So I would say doc review or take some LLM class where you might get retrained and hooked back in to the job market.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



Really have to circle back to this bit of crazy. Maybe I'm way behind on generic tesring, but a test that evaluates your genetic capability to process "toxins" (which involves everything from live and kidney function to nostril hairs) seems like witch doctor.

I am guessing that testing was done by the holistic doctors who also sold you treatments? Did they say what toxins were at fault?

Did you test your home for toxins, most dangerous ones like lead and mold can be mediated.

It's impossible to reverse COPD, so have you simply halted it's progression or perhaps were misdiagnosed for asthma?

This whole aside makes me suspect of your critical thinking; as a home schooling SAHM you may have been very isolated and iit can wear on mental faculties. Did your DH travel a lot and have long hours?


What an arrogant and ignorant reply. You must be an unhappy person. I truly feel sorry for you.

My COPD was diagnosed by a pulmonologist and I have significantly improved to the point that I no longer have this dx, as determined by same pulmonologist. If you believe COPD is irreversible, then let’s just pray you never have COPD.

The HLA-DR gene can indeed cause lowered immunity. Google it. You might learn some valuable information.

I don’t really feel the need to explain my treatment protocol or medical history any further. All that matters is I’m healthier by the grace of God somehow and ready to move forward in the job market.

Thank you to those who offered sage advice. You have given me some ideas. I do know one education lawyer that I used to consult with that might be willing to mentor me. Thank you!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



Really have to circle back to this bit of crazy. Maybe I'm way behind on generic tesring, but a test that evaluates your genetic capability to process "toxins" (which involves everything from live and kidney function to nostril hairs) seems like witch doctor.

I am guessing that testing was done by the holistic doctors who also sold you treatments? Did they say what toxins were at fault?

Did you test your home for toxins, most dangerous ones like lead and mold can be mediated.

It's impossible to reverse COPD, so have you simply halted it's progression or perhaps were misdiagnosed for asthma?

This whole aside makes me suspect of your critical thinking; as a home schooling SAHM you may have been very isolated and iit can wear on mental faculties. Did your DH travel a lot and have long hours?


What an arrogant and ignorant reply. You must be an unhappy person. I truly feel sorry for you.

My COPD was diagnosed by a pulmonologist and I have significantly improved to the point that I no longer have this dx, as determined by same pulmonologist. If you believe COPD is irreversible, then let’s just pray you never have COPD.

The HLA-DR gene can indeed cause lowered immunity. Google it. You might learn some valuable information.

I don’t really feel the need to explain my treatment protocol or medical history any further. All that matters is I’m healthier by the grace of God somehow and ready to move forward in the job market.

Thank you to those who offered sage advice. You have given me some ideas. I do know one education lawyer that I used to consult with that might be willing to mentor me. Thank you!


I'm rooting for you and I hope you update!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Wow, this thread is a good example of the other thread about women being nasty to other women. OP asked for some advice, and so many of you turned it into an opportunity to attack her.


It’s not all of DCUM, just a group of sad, miserable women who are bitter they didn’t get something they wanted in life. Rarely do contented people behave this way.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



You’ve now lost my sympathy, OP. I do all of those things and work full time. I am also a single mom.

It’s fine to want to work after many years of staying at home but you’ve lost me once you’re feeling sorry for yourself about all the reasons you stayed home. What a luxury.

Signed, Single mom with a disability and chronic illness and a child with autism, ADHD, and anxiety


Lol I don’t recall asking for or needing your sympathy. There is absolutely no way you could have done what I did and still worked full time. My son’s psychiatrist recommended a minimum of 40 hours of floor time a week. I did 50. Don’t tell me you kept him up all night depriving him of sleep to get all that floor time in. Many children with autism have ADHD and anxiety also. Comes with the ASD dx.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



Well this explains it all. You think you have a made up illness and you really think you couldn’t work with a child with special needs. Millions of Americans go to work every day and have sick kids or some sort of illness. A blind woman scanned my ticket at Disney world last week.

There are consequences to your behavior and not working for decades means you’ll have problems finding employment now.


There's no reason to be so rude about a life choice to take care of a child with special needs. This person did not hurt your company by taking care of their child.

Personally, I think the OP's commitment to caring for her child does translate to a career if she emphasizes her advocacy for her child and the expertise gained therefrom. There are plenty of government jobs where this type of dedication would be valued.


This sure feels like OP sock puppeting.


Wrong. I wrote the message and I have nothing to do with the OP. So no "sock puppet." Sorry.


Wow, what a lightning fast response.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



Really have to circle back to this bit of crazy. Maybe I'm way behind on generic tesring, but a test that evaluates your genetic capability to process "toxins" (which involves everything from live and kidney function to nostril hairs) seems like witch doctor.

I am guessing that testing was done by the holistic doctors who also sold you treatments? Did they say what toxins were at fault?

Did you test your home for toxins, most dangerous ones like lead and mold can be mediated.

It's impossible to reverse COPD, so have you simply halted it's progression or perhaps were misdiagnosed for asthma?

This whole aside makes me suspect of your critical thinking; as a home schooling SAHM you may have been very isolated and iit can wear on mental faculties. Did your DH travel a lot and have long hours?


What an arrogant and ignorant reply. You must be an unhappy person. I truly feel sorry for you.

My COPD was diagnosed by a pulmonologist and I have significantly improved to the point that I no longer have this dx, as determined by same pulmonologist. If you believe COPD is irreversible, then let’s just pray you never have COPD.

The HLA-DR gene can indeed cause lowered immunity. Google it. You might learn some valuable information.

I don’t really feel the need to explain my treatment protocol or medical history any further. All that matters is I’m healthier by the grace of God somehow and ready to move forward in the job market.

Thank you to those who offered sage advice. You have given me some ideas. I do know one education lawyer that I used to consult with that might be willing to mentor me. Thank you!


Immunity and processing of toxins are pretty distinct things. kidneys and liver are not part of immune system. Feel free to post a link, I'm too lazy to (LM)GTFU.

COPD is not reversible. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chronic-obstructive-pulmonary-disease-copd/treatment/

So you had lung inflammation? most likely the doctor said it could lead to COPD.

either way, between your dominance over medical professionals and the teaching realm, you clearly are a master of all trades, so BigLaw or bust.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



You’ve now lost my sympathy, OP. I do all of those things and work full time. I am also a single mom.

It’s fine to want to work after many years of staying at home but you’ve lost me once you’re feeling sorry for yourself about all the reasons you stayed home. What a luxury.

Signed, Single mom with a disability and chronic illness and a child with autism, ADHD, and anxiety


Lol I don’t recall asking for or needing your sympathy. There is absolutely no way you could have done what I did and still worked full time. My son’s psychiatrist recommended a minimum of 40 hours of floor time a week. I did 50. Don’t tell me you kept him up all night depriving him of sleep to get all that floor time in. Many children with autism have ADHD and anxiety also. Comes with the ASD dx.



LOL!!!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in a position to hire anyone right now but if I were, I would hire someone like you for a junior lawyer position. And I would do it gladly. You have the same prerequisites any junior lawyer would have (law school isn’t helpful anyway), and I would expect personal maturity and organizational skills.


Same. I work at a small law firm of former BigLaw lawyers. We have high standards but can't compete in hiring with BigLaw. The associates we've hired the past 5 years have all been terrible despite having good grades from respectable law schools -- can't write, no ability to figure things out on their own or problem solve, can't analyze a case correctly, complain about 2 in-person days in the office. I can only conclude that there has been a brain drain from law to STEM fields. I've been thinking lately that what we really need is a SAHM former lawyer with good credentials heading back to work. I can train someone within reason to write or read a case but I can't figure out how to get someone to problem solve or take ownership of a project who does not seem to have that chip. I've been practicing for almost 30 years and the decline the last few years has been notable.

OP I think the suggestion to be CASA volunteer is a good one -- just to get you back in the mindset of advocacy and being around lawyers. If you have some money to throw at the problem, it might be worth checking out some LLM programs. I'm normally not an advocate of these, but in your case if you can go and do a year of law school and get good grades it might get your confidence up, and you will at least have something on your resume to show you are serious.

Don't do document review -- it's the worst and it won't get you where you want to go. Tell everyone you know you are looking -- maybe a solo or small firm will pick you up to do some temp overflow work or something. Get your foot in the door. Even if you are in your 50s you could still have a 10-20 year work life ahead of you. Law is one field where ageism is less of a problem -- I work with plenty of crusty old lawyers who are at the top of their game. Good luck!



I guess. Whenever I hear of SAHMs who stayed home for long periods of time I think they aren’t career minded at all and don’t want a career. Which is fine but I am not motivated to help them find a job. Pretty much every woman has legit reasons to stay home but if you want to work, you do. It seems high unusual that someone who will focus on a job and do a great job would go without one for 22 years.

Illness that somehow lasts 22 years but she is now “healing.” What kind of illness is it and what does that mean? To me it’s more support she doesn’t want a job.


Well, you are correct that my priority for the last 22 years was not work - it was my son. If I had a job, there is no way I would have been able to advocate for his rights in the public or private school system (yes, he has been through both systems in my effort to find a supportive school environment). If I had worked for the past 22 years, I would never have been able to tutor him. Many tutors gave up on him. With my help, he graduated high-school with a 3.8 GPA, having taken a handful of AP and dual enrollment classes. He is maintaining a GPA of 3.3 in college.

My illness began 8 years ago due to exposure to environmental toxins. I was diagnosed with early COPD with a lung capacity of 40% and was immunocompromised. Covid left me bedridden for one month and weakened me further. Conventional medicine could not help me. With the help of a functional medical doctor and holistic practitioners, I am regaining my health now.

So you are absolutely correct that I chose NOT to work because my priorities were my son and my health. Things are different now.


I’m sorry but advocating for your son could not have been a full time occupation. You could have certainly had some job throughout that period, many special need parents. You chose not to work because you didn’t need to and probably didn’t like it much. And that’s fine. But that will be the perception of many potential employers, and it will be somewhat valid.

I am sorry you had serious health effects, what toxins were you exposed to as a SAHM? Most people encounter them at workplaces. Anyways, your screed against “conventional medicine” doesn’t really pertain to the jobs board, and certainly never mention any of that in the process for your job search.


Agree with the poster above.

I bet OP sees some of her former classmates benefiting from decades of career investment and grinding with important jobs and wants to be like them.

Plenty of us have to work and provide and don’t have the luxury of quitting. We just balance it and have a constant to-do list. And yes, we have impressive titles or whatever. But those didn’t fall into our laps.


No. Since I became a SAHM, I never kept in touch with any of my former classmates. My entire world changed, including the people I kept in touch with. My days were filled with taking my son to occupational therapy, sensory therapy, social group therapy, floortime, doctor appointments, speech therapy, managing IEPs and 504's, doing online research, finding tutors, then homeschooling him after he quit the public school system. He isn't my only child either, so I was busy all day.

As for the previous poster's comment, I chose not to work because my highest priority was my son. The next priority was my health. My career wasn't a priority at all during that time. I think I already made that clear in another reply that you probably missed.

I'm very blessed that I didn't need to work for income, either.

Environmental toxins may be at workplaces, but about 40% of homes in the US have unsafe levels of environmental toxins also. Unfortunately genetic testing showed I don't have the ability to detox as well as 75% of the population.

And I made TWO short comments about conventional medicine, so...not a screed. I mentioned that because because navigating allopathic treatment and the conventional standard of care options for my condition took many years before I found holistic solutions. This kept me out of the job market. This is relevant to my post. But I am indeed a big fan of holistic medicine now too, regardless of whether or not it pertains to the subject of jobs.



You’ve now lost my sympathy, OP. I do all of those things and work full time. I am also a single mom.

It’s fine to want to work after many years of staying at home but you’ve lost me once you’re feeling sorry for yourself about all the reasons you stayed home. What a luxury.

Signed, Single mom with a disability and chronic illness and a child with autism, ADHD, and anxiety


Lol I don’t recall asking for or needing your sympathy. There is absolutely no way you could have done what I did and still worked full time. My son’s psychiatrist recommended a minimum of 40 hours of floor time a week. I did 50. Don’t tell me you kept him up all night depriving him of sleep to get all that floor time in. Many children with autism have ADHD and anxiety also. Comes with the ASD dx.



LOL!!!


That clinched it. OP is an exquisite troll. Brava.
Anonymous
Rooting for you!!

I am an attorney too, I had a 10 year gap in my work experience. The gap was for raising kids, moving internationally and basically being a trailing spouse. I did keep my license active. I got back after 10 years with a volunteering gig that turned into a paying gig after 1 year. Cannot say it's the best job but it is something. Best of luck with your search.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Rooting for you!!

I am an attorney too, I had a 10 year gap in my work experience. The gap was for raising kids, moving internationally and basically being a trailing spouse. I did keep my license active. I got back after 10 years with a volunteering gig that turned into a paying gig after 1 year. Cannot say it's the best job but it is something. Best of luck with your search.



Not sure why OP doesnt pursue social work or similar. 22 years is twice as long a 10, did you work longer than OP? Her law degree just isn't relevant, and she should build on other recent skills like patient advocacy or occupational therapy. She could volunteer at head start and work with autistic kids since she has years of hands on experience.
Anonymous
You never had a career, so you’re not salvaging anything. You’re looking to start a career much later in life. If it has to be in law then look at more junior roles and knock them out of the park. You’ll set yourself up to advance. Play it by ear based on what you’re good at.
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