My DC's Graduation Location was Just Switched to Accommodate the Encampments on Campus...I'm Angry!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, that does suck, but so does Gaza not having any universities anymore and having thousands of students killed.

That does suck, but please tell me (I"m not OP) how these encampments are helping the cause.

The same way students helped end the Vietnam war with protests and helped South Africa end apartheid. Citizens of Israel are also protesting with much bigger crowds against Netanyahu. Protests have always been a way to, well, protest against something. Nothing new.

Yeah, these students did really "help" the millions of South Vietnamese that were abandoned by the US and were subsequently forced into a communist regime and sent to "reeducation" camps. These students really helped the millions who had to flee their country because they were persecuted due to their previous involvement with the US.

To you, these students' protests against the Vietnam war might have been for a "good" cause, but to the millions affected, they'll tell you those students were clueless and did not see further than their noses. They just latched on a cause and went for it loudly without evaluating all the consequences.

So what should the US have done? Like seriously, what should the US have done?

And they did evaluate the consequences - dying for a war in which the US genuinely had no stake was not worth it for them.

For one, not abandon their allies overnight? Yeah these students did evaluate the consequences. They came to the conclusions that they did not want to be drafted, did not want to put themselves in danger, that it "was not worth it for them". You want to celebrate their role in ending the Vietnam war? Fine, but I'm telling you how their protests affected millions of others whom they deemed "not worth it"

The US was in Vietnam for roughly 20 years. The presence was escalated in 1968 by Nixon, the guy who promised to end the war. The writing was on the wall from the Tet Offensive onward even if the South Vietnamese army and elites refused to accept the reality.

What happened in Vietnam, including the fall of Saigon, was devastating (I've read my Stanley Karnow) as well as incredibly brutal to the South Vietnamese. But the US didn't leave "allies overnight" - the Paris Peace Talks Accord was signed in 1973 and Saigon fell in 1975. That's not overnight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, that does suck, but so does Gaza not having any universities anymore and having thousands of students killed.

That does suck, but please tell me (I"m not OP) how these encampments are helping the cause.

The same way students helped end the Vietnam war with protests and helped South Africa end apartheid. Citizens of Israel are also protesting with much bigger crowds against Netanyahu. Protests have always been a way to, well, protest against something. Nothing new.

I hear you but I’m also having trouble seeing that these protests are effective. Vietnam was different because we were the ones waging the war and college aged students were being drafted. And there weren’t protests like this on campus re South Africa — I was at a liberal college at the time. We wrote letters thru Amnesty and boycotted Coke. It was more a targeted financial boycott that was effective, combined with near universal global condemnation and decades of really effective activism within the country. These kids should be protesting at the state department or NSA headquarters — swarthmore really has nothing to do with it and ruining things for the fellow students won’t help the people in Gaza at all. They’d do better to get every family to sign a petition, distribute information, and get every guest to donate $100 to famine relief.

This. It isn't about taking sides on this issue -- the US has relatively little sway here, and Swarthmore less. What do the encamping students even want? The fact that I read the news every day in multiple sources and have no idea speaks volumes. All I have seen is wanting private colleges to divest from Israel, but I mean is Swarthmore even invested in Israel ?

I mean, please, protest malaria, I think it is a horrible scourge, but I would address the problem by donating to research and figuring out whether there are specific organizations / practices that are making it worse. And telling people about them. Not camping and yelling through others' classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden will be very affected. He NEEDS the young vote. That is why he tried so hard on the student loan forgiveness. Young liberals will not vote for Trump. But his stance toward Israel means many won’t vote for him either. This is problematic and the kids in the encampments know it. They are getting a lot of press.

Well they are idiots because if Trump gets in office he’s not going to be more supportive of Palestinians than Biden.

Biden is not particularly supportive of Palestinians. Six in one-hand and half-a-dozen in the other when comparing these two fossils on this matter.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Makes me appreciate Dartmouth for calling the police after protesters pitched an encampment. The schools - like Swarthmore - that have caved to the disruption that a handful of protesters are causing are pathetic. And yes, this class in particular should get to experience a traditional graduation ceremony. Canceling or moving these events does absolutely nothing for anyone in Gaza. It's performative nonsense and affected colleges need to develop a spine.

This

+1

-1 . Dartmouth and Swarthmore are pretty dissimilar when it comes to their political values and histories. Arresting protestors at Darthmouth is in line with the school's values; arresting protestors at Swarthmore would violate the school's core identity.

The “core identity” of Swathmore is to let inmates run the asylum? Are you serious?

As a former Swattie, yup. It’s a weird school. I don’t know why so many kids want to go.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’m so sorry that genocide has dampened your celebrations. That sounds hard.

It is not a genocide.

Says you, but I'll bite. Just substitute genocide with mass murder, pogroms, annihilation, elimination, decimation, butchery, slaughter, eradication, anything but genocide right PP

All of those words have meanings. Some may apply to this situation, but most do not.

Language matters. You do yourself no favors by just throwing out provocative terms to rile others up. It undercuts any sliver of credibility you might have left.

They all apply. You have no credibility whoever the hell you may or may not be, but all the words apply. Pick up a dictionary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, that does suck, but so does Gaza not having any universities anymore and having thousands of students killed.

You are such an idiot. Please leave this country.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so sorry that genocide has dampened your celebrations. That sounds hard.

It is not a genocide.

Says you, but I'll bite. Just substitute genocide with mass murder, pogroms, annihilation, elimination, decimation, butchery, slaughter, eradication, anything but genocide right PP

How about substituting it with "war," which is what this is? Hamas declared war against Israel, and Israel is fighting that war. People die in wars.

Israel declared war on Palestine in 1948. You people are fake and disingenuous when you blindly forget that Israel had been arresting, detaining, and "accidentally" murdering Palestinian young men well before October 7. But I get it, October 7 is the imaginary line that you peeps want to begin with and everything before that day does not count. There are two words for this, take your pick: LIAR or DELUSIONAL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, that does suck, but so does Gaza not having any universities anymore and having thousands of students killed.

That does suck, but please tell me (I"m not OP) how these encampments are helping the cause.

The same way students helped end the Vietnam war with protests and helped South Africa end apartheid. Citizens of Israel are also protesting with much bigger crowds against Netanyahu. Protests have always been a way to, well, protest against something. Nothing new.

Sure, they're protesting against . . . wait for it . . . their own government. The Swarthmore (and other US college) protestors are protesting against the Israeli government, which cares not at all, or that their university's endowment has investments that relate in some way to Israel. It's complete nonsense.

I'm a liberal, and the fuzzy-headed logic you used annoys me almost as much as the far right wing. You (and the protestors) make us all look bad, and undermine what are valid criticisms of US policy because it's so easy to dismiss you as an ineffective doofus.

Would you have said the same about the protests for divestment in South Africa?
In so far as billions of our tax monies are being used to support the mass slaughter Palestinian children, I support the college protestors. Yes, there are some protestors out there who are stupidly, ignorantly, parading Hamas flags, etc., etc., but unlike you, I can appreciate the efforts of young adults here.
As for the moving of the graduation. I empathize, OP. I graduated from Swarthmore in the mid-90s when we still had graduation in the amphitheater. I think of the families who have flown in to watch their children graduate on what truly is an exceptionally beautiful campus. I'm sorry. It would have been gracious of the protestors to agree not to protest during graduation exercises.

Absolutely.

I guess some people are comfortable admitting that they stand on the wrong side of history. Ironically, you may have been one of the many Americans who agreed with US policies turning Jews away during the Holocaust.

Oh, I see. You equating thinking that the protests are performative and pointless with supporting the things they are protesting against? You are incapable of making that very significant distinction in your mind?

Or perhaps is it you really can't argue with the statement that that the protests are performative and pointless, and so have to divert the discussion?

Protests are not performative and pointless, otherwise hardline regimes like those you find in Iran and China wouldn't crack down on protestors. Any serious student of history understands that protests are powerful for myriad reasons. It's hard to think of significant shifts in modern history that weren't accompanied by protest - civil rights, independence movements, suffrage, Vietnam...

Good lord. No, of course not all protests are performative and pointless. Quite the red herring you have thrown up there. But these protests, which are not disrupting the Israeli government or society, and not even disrupting the US government function are the definition of performative and pointless.

Let's try a little thought experiment - do you think protests and encampments at a French or English university demanding the university divest itself of all investment in the US because of its treatment of African Americans would make one iota of difference? Of course not.

Surely a "serious student of history" such as yourself (snort) can see that.

They are most certainly eroding the support for Israel here within the US during an election year. Think a little harder.

Most people are smart enough to know the protesters, despite their noise, are a pathetic, petulant, manipulated minority participating in their generation’s equivalent to streaking.

Don't be so sure. I was at an event with a group of young coeds who are not participating in the campus protests, but support the students from afar. They are voting in line with the protestors, but do not want to be doxxed for potential job opportunities. Basically there are a lot of people who silently support the students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, that does suck, but so does Gaza not having any universities anymore and having thousands of students killed.

That does suck, but please tell me (I"m not OP) how these encampments are helping the cause.

The same way students helped end the Vietnam war with protests and helped South Africa end apartheid. Citizens of Israel are also protesting with much bigger crowds against Netanyahu. Protests have always been a way to, well, protest against something. Nothing new.

Sure, they're protesting against . . . wait for it . . . their own government. The Swarthmore (and other US college) protestors are protesting against the Israeli government, which cares not at all, or that their university's endowment has investments that relate in some way to Israel. It's complete nonsense.

I'm a liberal, and the fuzzy-headed logic you used annoys me almost as much as the far right wing. You (and the protestors) make us all look bad, and undermine what are valid criticisms of US policy because it's so easy to dismiss you as an ineffective doofus.

Would you have said the same about the protests for divestment in South Africa?
In so far as billions of our tax monies are being used to support the mass slaughter Palestinian children, I support the college protestors. Yes, there are some protestors out there who are stupidly, ignorantly, parading Hamas flags, etc., etc., but unlike you, I can appreciate the efforts of young adults here.
As for the moving of the graduation. I empathize, OP. I graduated from Swarthmore in the mid-90s when we still had graduation in the amphitheater. I think of the families who have flown in to watch their children graduate on what truly is an exceptionally beautiful campus. I'm sorry. It would have been gracious of the protestors to agree not to protest during graduation exercises.

Absolutely.

I guess some people are comfortable admitting that they stand on the wrong side of history. Ironically, you may have been one of the many Americans who agreed with US policies turning Jews away during the Holocaust.

Oh, I see. You equating thinking that the protests are performative and pointless with supporting the things they are protesting against? You are incapable of making that very significant distinction in your mind?

Or perhaps is it you really can't argue with the statement that that the protests are performative and pointless, and so have to divert the discussion?

Protests are not performative and pointless, otherwise hardline regimes like those you find in Iran and China wouldn't crack down on protestors. Any serious student of history understands that protests are powerful for myriad reasons. It's hard to think of significant shifts in modern history that weren't accompanied by protest - civil rights, independence movements, suffrage, Vietnam...

Good lord. No, of course not all protests are performative and pointless. Quite the red herring you have thrown up there. But these protests, which are not disrupting the Israeli government or society, and not even disrupting the US government function are the definition of performative and pointless.

Let's try a little thought experiment - do you think protests and encampments at a French or English university demanding the university divest itself of all investment in the US because of its treatment of African Americans would make one iota of difference? Of course not.

Surely a "serious student of history" such as yourself (snort) can see that.

They are most certainly eroding the support for Israel here within the US during an election year. Think a little harder.

Most people are smart enough to know the protesters, despite their noise, are a pathetic, petulant, manipulated minority participating in their generation’s equivalent to streaking.

If that's what you have to tell yourself to justify your support of genocide then so be it. But most of the world disagrees with you.

No one is supporting genocide stop being a moron.

Most of the protestors are not students.

We live in the United States of America where protesting is legal thank god.

In 2025 after trump wins there will be no protesting you moron.

Goodbye first amendment. Yay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, that does suck, but so does Gaza not having any universities anymore and having thousands of students killed.

That does suck, but please tell me (I"m not OP) how these encampments are helping the cause.

The same way students helped end the Vietnam war with protests and helped South Africa end apartheid. Citizens of Israel are also protesting with much bigger crowds against Netanyahu. Protests have always been a way to, well, protest against something. Nothing new.

I think you mean the same way that students helped elect Nixon as president. So Bravo because these terrorist are going to give us Trump.

Yep. This really sucks.

The student protests in the past did not help South Africa end apartheid or the US get out of Vietnam. At all. Educate yourself.

I think you need some re-education on the matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University of Tennessee tolerated none of it. Arrested any protestors after warnings due to them not having the required permits. One graduate smuggled in a Palestinian flag and was booed off the stage by the 6000 people in attendance. I don’t know why these liberal colleges, who undoubtedly have major endowments from Jewish donors, put up with it.

Can anyone even find the University of Tennessee on a map? And being Jewish does not equal support on what’s happening in Gaza. Blindly following a leader no matter what he does is dangerous. Example, half of Republicans believe Putin is a good guy because their leaders told them so.

If you are not able to, that doesn’t speak well of your Swarthmore education, now does it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so sorry that genocide has dampened your celebrations. That sounds hard.

It is not a genocide.

Says you, but I'll bite. Just substitute genocide with mass murder, pogroms, annihilation, elimination, decimation, butchery, slaughter, eradication, anything but genocide right PP

How about substituting it with "war," which is what this is? Hamas declared war against Israel, and Israel is fighting that war. People die in wars.

Israel declared war on Palestine in 1948. You people are fake and disingenuous when you blindly forget that Israel had been arresting, detaining, and "accidentally" murdering Palestinian young men well before October 7. But I get it, October 7 is the imaginary line that you peeps want to begin with and everything before that day does not count. There are two words for this, take your pick: LIAR or DELUSIONAL

So Israel’s existence is a declaration of war against Palestinians? Your anti-semitism is showing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes me appreciate Dartmouth for calling the police after protesters pitched an encampment. The schools - like Swarthmore - that have caved to the disruption that a handful of protesters are causing are pathetic. And yes, this class in particular should get to experience a traditional graduation ceremony. Canceling or moving these events does absolutely nothing for anyone in Gaza. It's performative nonsense and affected colleges need to develop a spine.

This

+1

-1 . Dartmouth and Swarthmore are pretty dissimilar when it comes to their political values and histories. Arresting protestors at Darthmouth is in line with the school's values; arresting protestors at Swarthmore would violate the school's core identity.

The “core identity” of Swathmore is to let inmates run the asylum? Are you serious?

As a former Swattie, yup. It’s a weird school. I don’t know why so many kids want to go.

Even more perplexing is why idiot parents are so happy to pay $90k a year for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes me appreciate Dartmouth for calling the police after protesters pitched an encampment. The schools - like Swarthmore - that have caved to the disruption that a handful of protesters are causing are pathetic. And yes, this class in particular should get to experience a traditional graduation ceremony. Canceling or moving these events does absolutely nothing for anyone in Gaza. It's performative nonsense and affected colleges need to develop a spine.

This

+1

-1 . Dartmouth and Swarthmore are pretty dissimilar when it comes to their political values and histories. Arresting protestors at Darthmouth is in line with the school's values; arresting protestors at Swarthmore would violate the school's core identity.

The “core identity” of Swathmore is to let inmates run the asylum? Are you serious?

As a former Swattie, yup. It’s a weird school. I don’t know why so many kids want to go.

+1. i told my DD up front no to Swarth. No point. Im not paying private rates for sjw indoctrination

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore has a long tradition of peaceful protest. Moving the graduation to allow the protests to continue is better than canceling graduation the way other institutions did.

I thought it was mostly outside agitators.