How to heal relationship between schools and families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are just wrong on 504s. They don't provide instruction on how to instruct or extra instruction but they certainly detail disabilities and how to make things better for the student which often includes work from the teacher. Also what does this have to do with anything? The person was talking about an IEP.

Questions like why would a special education teacher have a 504 document (I guess this is a student with an IEP and a 504) is an example of why this system is so broken acting like this is such a stupid idea. It makes perfect sense why a special ed teacher would have all the documents available on the child's disability.

Special education teachers do not work with kids with 504s. Kids with 504s have accommodations provided by the gen ed teacher in the gen ed setting to allow students to access the curriculum.

Social Ed teachers work with kids who have IEPS and give specialized instruction.

So then this teacher should not have been working with a child with a 504. I don't know. She's the one who brought up that she was working with a child with a 504 and didn't have access to a document like its some secret and how dare anyone accuse her of having to follow it. I can't even get a regular teacher to return an email once a year much less a sped teacher ever set eyes on my child. For all I know there are no special ed teachers. All I know is one shouldn't be up in arms over a legal special ed document and act like she's not responsible for it.

[Anonymous]

Also what I don't like is that our special ed coordinator has time for twice weekly meetings with kids to chit chat that they admit are completely ineffective and has time for all these extracurriculars but then can't seem to follow any basics of a special ed program implementation. They are so overworked but have all this time for other stuff? It just doesn't add up.

[Anonymous]

Also all this talk of paperwork all the time. It takes up 30% of my day is a regular battle cry. My child's special ed page is one hour to finalize and it's basically ignored all year unless I raise a fuss. We don't even have yearly parent teacher conferences. Schools used to have two, then one now none, so now this 504 document including the yearly meeting is less work than even the parent teacher conferences that I grew up with. My child finishes tests in study halls for the extra time. The 504 document goes out in an email and gets filed by the teacher and never seen again other than extra time on tests which is already digitally noted for a teacher to see which students qualify. The progress reports are computer generated with no individual comments and thats from K to 12. Can someone explain how the paperwork is some monstrous issue that we need to rectify? I'm happy to help but clearly am not seeing the work behind the curtain. IEP and 504s. What's the deal with all the paperwork lamenting? Please indicate which you are talking about. IEP's or 504s. Let's try to work this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also all this talk of paperwork all the time. It takes up 30% of my day is a regular battle cry. My child's special ed page is one hour to finalize and it's basically ignored all year unless I raise a fuss. We don't even have yearly parent teacher conferences. Schools used to have two, then one now none, so now this 504 document including the yearly meeting is less work than even the parent teacher conferences that I grew up with. My child finishes tests in study halls for the extra time. The 504 document goes out in an email and gets filed by the teacher and never seen again other than extra time on tests which is already digitally noted for a teacher to see which students qualify. The progress reports are computer generated with no individual comments and thats from K to 12. Can someone explain how the paperwork is some monstrous issue that we need to rectify? I'm happy to help but clearly am not seeing the work behind the curtain. IEP and 504s. What's the deal with all the paperwork lamenting? Please indicate which you are talking about. IEP's or 504s. Let's try to work this out.

504s are less paperwork for sure. I'd say probably 2hours behind the scenes for the 504 coordinator of drafting and printing and finalizing. Of course, the 504 coordinator at most schools has at least 15 kids as well as other duties (at my school, it's the school counselor. So it's a small part of her overall busy job).

IEPs are another story. The one hour of meeting for your child is at LEAST 2-3 hours per kid of gathering and collating data, administering progress monitoring assessments, scheduling, and then writing the actual goals. For kids transitioning to another school, there's a transition meeting on top of the regular IEP. Special ed teachers also have to gather data and draft re-evaluations. At my school, we have a lot of parents who don't speak english, so all of the meetings take awhile and the teacher has to schedule an interpreter. Also, caseloads are high! A teacher has to do this for 20 kids in addition to actually teaching them, providing social skills, checking in on kids with a lot of behaviors, covering lunch duty, answering parent emails.. it just adds up, and every special education teacher I know works on evenings and weekends to get this done. My husband also works sometimes on weekends and evenings, but he makes literally twice my salary.

[Anonymous]

So you are saying the IEP documents of which there are about 4 hours per student for 20 kids or 80 hours extra is done at home and this is the extra work each year? Am I getting that right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you are saying the IEP documents of which there are about 4 hours per student for 20 kids or 80 hours extra is done at home and this is the extra work each year? Am I getting that right?

That’s the absolute minimum. They also have to plan their lessons at home, prep materials at home, et.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you are saying the IEP documents of which there are about 4 hours per student for 20 kids or 80 hours extra is done at home and this is the extra work each year? Am I getting that right?

This is correct

[Anonymous]

Listen, there are three options here: the parents are wrong to complain, the teachers are wrong to be overwhelmed, or the whole system is broken. I know which one I think is likeliest.

This is a massive unfunded entitlement — growing more massive every year. I suppose it will all end when every kid has a plan, when every teacher has quit, or when the law changes.

[Anonymous]

Genuine question, I realize this is an underfunded program but is it really unfunded or do school systems move the money intended for Special Education services to other areas of the budget? I understand in Maryland there will be a little more accountability with this because of the Blueprint. is this correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question, I realize this is an underfunded program but is it really unfunded or do school systems move the money intended for Special Education services to other areas of the budget? I understand in Maryland there will be a little more accountability with this because of the Blueprint. is this correct?

No, at least in MoCo the county adds a ton of money for special ed.

The money they move around to other areas of the budget is the money for low income students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you are saying the IEP documents of which there are about 4 hours per student for 20 kids or 80 hours extra is done at home and this is the extra work each year? Am I getting that right?

Special Ed teacher here. IEPs are not the only paperwork. For a Child Find referral that goes all the way to an initial IEP, there is tons:
-gather data, observe child, complete educational history form
-complete Child Find form during and after meeting along with a Prior Written Notice
-If it was determined testing is required, sped teacher does Ed testing and writes report
- eligibility meeting, complete eligibility form and Prior Written Notice, if SLD is diagnosed, complete SLD form, may also need appendix A or Appendix D depending on needs
-draft initial IEP
-IEP meeting, Prior Written Notice

There are several of these per year, along with annual reviews, progress notes each quarter, monthly Medical assistance logs, periodic reviews. I have had Annual Reviews take 2 to 3 meetings when advocates are involved. On top of lesson planning and paperwork required for just being a teacher (SLOs, grading), emails and calls to parents).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent I would love to get documents before a meeting. That is a place to start for schools to build a relationship with parents

What school district are you in? In MD, you have a right to all documents referenced at the meeting 5 days in advance. In DC there is also a right to receive materials in advance. (not sure how many days). You also have a right under FERPA to any educational record with your kid's name on it plus any necessary material to understand it (test, answer key, MAP results and breakdowns, etc.) You can ask for this to be provided prior to a meeting.

I have actually stopped in the middle of an IEP meeting when presented with unfamiliar documents and said, "I'm sorry, these documents should have been provided to me in the 5-day packet - we are going to have to adjourn this meeting and continue 5 business days or more from today, but prior to the timeline expiration. If the school refuses or tries to disincentivize me from time to review by offering a date another month or two away, I remind them that they are out of compliance and the only way to come back into compliance is to meet again within timeline because I am not waiving timeline. It's my right to participate as a full and equal team member, and I cannot do that without access to the information that is being used to make decisions about IEP eligibility and content."

You can bet the school never broke the 5-day rule again with me.

To all you teachers who blame parents for so many meetings - it's like blaming a woman for the fact her husband is beating her. I am not waiving my rights because someone on the team is incompetent.

You’re such peach. No one is out to take your rights. How far in advance did you receive documents? One document was missing and that was your response? Would you like the staff to not deliver services or would you like documents 5 days in advance? And that is not the law in my state. Get real. You are unreasonable and you are the problem. You are the reason special ed staff quit. You are the reason people don’t want to work in education. What a nightmare. You are so angry and bitter and trying to control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you are saying the IEP documents of which there are about 4 hours per student for 20 kids or 80 hours extra is done at home and this is the extra work each year? Am I getting that right?

What is wrong with you? Why are you trying to minimize the teacher workload that you do not understand? There is planning, prepping, grading, data review, IEP writing, other report writing, IEP progress reports, sled testing, Sol testing, collaboration with staff, taking with families, trainings, professional development, dealing with behaviors and discipline, meetings meetings and more meetings. And constantly more forms, documentation, and more meetings. all while parents feel entitled to be disrespectful, condescending, untrusting, and think their kid is “entitled to the stars and moon.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent I would love to get documents before a meeting. That is a place to start for schools to build a relationship with parents

What school district are you in? In MD, you have a right to all documents referenced at the meeting 5 days in advance. In DC there is also a right to receive materials in advance. (not sure how many days). You also have a right under FERPA to any educational record with your kid's name on it plus any necessary material to understand it (test, answer key, MAP results and breakdowns, etc.) You can ask for this to be provided prior to a meeting.

I have actually stopped in the middle of an IEP meeting when presented with unfamiliar documents and said, "I'm sorry, these documents should have been provided to me in the 5-day packet - we are going to have to adjourn this meeting and continue 5 business days or more from today, but prior to the timeline expiration. If the school refuses or tries to disincentivize me from time to review by offering a date another month or two away, I remind them that they are out of compliance and the only way to come back into compliance is to meet again within timeline because I am not waiving timeline. It's my right to participate as a full and equal team member, and I cannot do that without access to the information that is being used to make decisions about IEP eligibility and content."

You can bet the school never broke the 5-day rule again with me.

To all you teachers who blame parents for so many meetings - it's like blaming a woman for the fact her husband is beating her. I am not waiving my rights because someone on the team is incompetent.

You’re such peach. No one is out to take your rights. How far in advance did you receive documents? One document was missing and that was your response? Would you like the staff to not deliver services or would you like documents 5 days in advance? And that is not the law in my state. Get real. You are unreasonable and you are the problem. You are the reason special ed staff quit. You are the reason people don’t want to work in education. What a nightmare. You are so angry and bitter and trying to control.

That is the law in MD. Legal compliance is not optional. Cops don't get to say, I was too busy to read you your Miranda rights, so just shut up and don't complain and accept it. Neither does the school system get to say, we were too busy serving kids to comply with the law.

No, it wasn't just "one document was missing". I did not receive 7 teacher reports (14+ pages of material) that were used to form the basis of the PLOPs that the school wanted to write - PLOPs that said that my child was doing great. Except my child was not doing great; the team had cherry-picked the teacher reports, ignoring any negative comments or any comments that indicated my child was performing below grade level. When documents are presented during the meeting, I have no ability to read, analyze and rebut. But, when I have the *legally required* 5 day notice, I can analyze the teacher reports, compare them to what is on the draft PLOPs and look at the gradebook and student work to see if it matches what the teacher is saying. Often the proposed PLOPs from the school are rosy cherry-picking of data, because the better the student performance, the less the school has to do.

The school and teachers want to demonize parents - but it is the school staff that creates problems. I've worked with dozens of families who have been jerked around by the school resulting in more meetings and more paperwork.

FFS, how hard is it to forward teacher reports that come in - if an IEP manager has minimal professional skills, it's a click of a button to download these docs from emails or print to pdfs and share the files - put a tickler on the calendar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you are saying the IEP documents of which there are about 4 hours per student for 20 kids or 80 hours extra is done at home and this is the extra work each year? Am I getting that right?

What is wrong with you? Why are you trying to minimize the teacher workload that you do not understand? There is planning, prepping, grading, data review, IEP writing, other report writing, IEP progress reports, sled testing, Sol testing, collaboration with staff, taking with families, trainings, professional development, dealing with behaviors and discipline, meetings meetings and more meetings. And constantly more forms, documentation, and more meetings. all while parents feel entitled to be disrespectful, condescending, untrusting, and think their kid is “entitled to the stars and moon.”

As was said up thread, literally no one thinks the bold. Parents are begging for scraps of education for SN kids while MCPS, for example, runs dozens of magnet programs all over the county - Blair, Eastern and Takoma magnets, CES in every cluster, language immersion, academies for this and that. Meanwhile, MCPS has only moved in the last 5 years to have any kind of dyslexic reading program training for staff, and the numbers and degree of training for still embarrassingly low.

The fact that you think parents ask for the "moon and stars" reveals just how little you understand what SN kids get compared to their gen ed peers.