Discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict In Schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

You don't see to, actually. And you aren't in a position to define what is or is not anti-Semitic. But absolutely, I have and do support Palestinian children with my time, charitable contributions, and friendships. They are very capable of denouncing corrupt Palestinian leaderships, just as I have been protesting against Bibi for years. The people most knee-jerk condemning of Israel and spreading misinformation tend to be fellow travelers on the political left, usually white dudes, but not always. The people of and from the region, particularly those who are educated and read, tend to be the most capable of having a real discussion of the thorny issues surrounding the rights of Jews and Palestinians to be free peoples in free countries in the ME.

I literally don't disagree with anything you said. So the real discussion would acknowledge the suffering of innocent people on both sides and condemn their respective governments, right?

what does the suffering of the slaughtered Jews on the Kibbutz have to do with the suffering in Gaza? Unless you are expressly downplaying it or think it’s illegitimate.

You are being intentionally obtuse.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

well come now, if you think DCPS should engage in this conversation then it’s going to have to be the full conversation.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

Heres what I know. I wouldnt travel to Israel or have my kids participate in Birthright Israel, or live in kibbutz for a few years, or even move there if there was excessive violence or the threats that are discussed here.
I would move away as soon as possible like the Palestinians I know. Who would never move back there and who wont even send their kids to visit family.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

well come now, if you think DCPS should engage in this conversation then it’s going to have to be the full conversation.

I would LOVE it if it were a full conversation. Israelis might not like it and call it antisemitic though.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

You don't see to, actually. And you aren't in a position to define what is or is not anti-Semitic. But absolutely, I have and do support Palestinian children with my time, charitable contributions, and friendships. They are very capable of denouncing corrupt Palestinian leaderships, just as I have been protesting against Bibi for years. The people most knee-jerk condemning of Israel and spreading misinformation tend to be fellow travelers on the political left, usually white dudes, but not always. The people of and from the region, particularly those who are educated and read, tend to be the most capable of having a real discussion of the thorny issues surrounding the rights of Jews and Palestinians to be free peoples in free countries in the ME.

I literally don't disagree with anything you said. So the real discussion would acknowledge the suffering of innocent people on both sides and condemn their respective governments, right?

Your centering of yourself is problematic, though, right? Jewish children have a right to fear for their lives when other Jewish children are raped, beheaded, and burned in another farhud - and they might have generational trauma from their grandparents having survived other farhuds in the region, or elsewhere. And it's OK to take a beat and acknowledge that from immediately saying, and the Jews are responsible for this because of X, which is what it feels like you are doing - and frankly was done which Jews were slaughtered throughout history - the Shiraz Pogrom in 1910 -fault of the Jews; the 1920 Nebi Musa farhud in Jerusalem - fault of the Jews. The Baghdad Farhud in 1941, fault of the Jews. The Shoah - fault of the Jews - the large number of Jews murdered during the Dirty War - fault of the Jews; the attack on the Great Synagogue of Rome - fault of the Jews; the AMIA bombing - fault of the Jews. Any time any one dies in Israel at the hands of a terrorist - fault of the Jews. Here, were we have raped and beheaded and burned children and 250 disappeared Jews mostly young people in a manner reminiscent of the Night of Pencils - you immediately say - there is no space to consider Jewish student mental health for ten minutes without immediately launching into, implicitly, justifying what has happened which is a PARADIGM SHIFT.

And here you are still not acknowledging that anyone other than Jews has suffered.

wayyy to prove the point.

alone among all other groups in DCPS, we can never discuss antisemitism without also acknowledging that others have suffered.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

well come now, if you think DCPS should engage in this conversation then it’s going to have to be the full conversation.

I would LOVE it if it were a full conversation. Israelis might not like it and call it antisemitic though.

I don’t think you want the full conversation about Hamas’s Jew-anhililating charter and the fact that Gaza threw away it best chance of sovereignity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

You don't see to, actually. And you aren't in a position to define what is or is not anti-Semitic. But absolutely, I have and do support Palestinian children with my time, charitable contributions, and friendships. They are very capable of denouncing corrupt Palestinian leaderships, just as I have been protesting against Bibi for years. The people most knee-jerk condemning of Israel and spreading misinformation tend to be fellow travelers on the political left, usually white dudes, but not always. The people of and from the region, particularly those who are educated and read, tend to be the most capable of having a real discussion of the thorny issues surrounding the rights of Jews and Palestinians to be free peoples in free countries in the ME.

I literally don't disagree with anything you said. So the real discussion would acknowledge the suffering of innocent people on both sides and condemn their respective governments, right?

Your centering of yourself is problematic, though, right? Jewish children have a right to fear for their lives when other Jewish children are raped, beheaded, and burned in another farhud - and they might have generational trauma from their grandparents having survived other farhuds in the region, or elsewhere. And it's OK to take a beat and acknowledge that from immediately saying, and the Jews are responsible for this because of X, which is what it feels like you are doing - and frankly was done which Jews were slaughtered throughout history - the Shiraz Pogrom in 1910 -fault of the Jews; the 1920 Nebi Musa farhud in Jerusalem - fault of the Jews. The Baghdad Farhud in 1941, fault of the Jews. The Shoah - fault of the Jews - the large number of Jews murdered during the Dirty War - fault of the Jews; the attack on the Great Synagogue of Rome - fault of the Jews; the AMIA bombing - fault of the Jews. Any time any one dies in Israel at the hands of a terrorist - fault of the Jews. Here, were we have raped and beheaded and burned children and 250 disappeared Jews mostly young people in a manner reminiscent of the Night of Pencils - you immediately say - there is no space to consider Jewish student mental health for ten minutes without immediately launching into, implicitly, justifying what has happened which is a PARADIGM SHIFT.

And here you are still not acknowledging that anyone other than Jews has suffered.

wayyy to prove the point.

alone among all other groups in DCPS, we can never discuss antisemitism without also acknowledging that others have suffered.

Well you're right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

You don't see to, actually. And you aren't in a position to define what is or is not anti-Semitic. But absolutely, I have and do support Palestinian children with my time, charitable contributions, and friendships. They are very capable of denouncing corrupt Palestinian leaderships, just as I have been protesting against Bibi for years. The people most knee-jerk condemning of Israel and spreading misinformation tend to be fellow travelers on the political left, usually white dudes, but not always. The people of and from the region, particularly those who are educated and read, tend to be the most capable of having a real discussion of the thorny issues surrounding the rights of Jews and Palestinians to be free peoples in free countries in the ME.

I literally don't disagree with anything you said. So the real discussion would acknowledge the suffering of innocent people on both sides and condemn their respective governments, right?

Your centering of yourself is problematic, though, right? Jewish children have a right to fear for their lives when other Jewish children are raped, beheaded, and burned in another farhud - and they might have generational trauma from their grandparents having survived other farhuds in the region, or elsewhere. And it's OK to take a beat and acknowledge that from immediately saying, and the Jews are responsible for this because of X, which is what it feels like you are doing - and frankly was done which Jews were slaughtered throughout history - the Shiraz Pogrom in 1910 -fault of the Jews; the 1920 Nebi Musa farhud in Jerusalem - fault of the Jews. The Baghdad Farhud in 1941, fault of the Jews. The Shoah - fault of the Jews - the large number of Jews murdered during the Dirty War - fault of the Jews; the attack on the Great Synagogue of Rome - fault of the Jews; the AMIA bombing - fault of the Jews. Any time any one dies in Israel at the hands of a terrorist - fault of the Jews. Here, were we have raped and beheaded and burned children and 250 disappeared Jews mostly young people in a manner reminiscent of the Night of Pencils - you immediately say - there is no space to consider Jewish student mental health for ten minutes without immediately launching into, implicitly, justifying what has happened which is a PARADIGM SHIFT.

And here you are still not acknowledging that anyone other than Jews has suffered.

Actually, I posted above that I do acknowledge. 10 MINUTES FOR ACKNOWLEDGING A PARADIGM SHIFT IN RAPED, BEHEADED, MURDERED KIDS - and you are incapable. Wow! Sick stuff.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

You don't see to, actually. And you aren't in a position to define what is or is not anti-Semitic. But absolutely, I have and do support Palestinian children with my time, charitable contributions, and friendships. They are very capable of denouncing corrupt Palestinian leaderships, just as I have been protesting against Bibi for years. The people most knee-jerk condemning of Israel and spreading misinformation tend to be fellow travelers on the political left, usually white dudes, but not always. The people of and from the region, particularly those who are educated and read, tend to be the most capable of having a real discussion of the thorny issues surrounding the rights of Jews and Palestinians to be free peoples in free countries in the ME.

I literally don't disagree with anything you said. So the real discussion would acknowledge the suffering of innocent people on both sides and condemn their respective governments, right?

Your centering of yourself is problematic, though, right? Jewish children have a right to fear for their lives when other Jewish children are raped, beheaded, and burned in another farhud - and they might have generational trauma from their grandparents having survived other farhuds in the region, or elsewhere. And it's OK to take a beat and acknowledge that from immediately saying, and the Jews are responsible for this because of X, which is what it feels like you are doing - and frankly was done which Jews were slaughtered throughout history - the Shiraz Pogrom in 1910 -fault of the Jews; the 1920 Nebi Musa farhud in Jerusalem - fault of the Jews. The Baghdad Farhud in 1941, fault of the Jews. The Shoah - fault of the Jews - the large number of Jews murdered during the Dirty War - fault of the Jews; the attack on the Great Synagogue of Rome - fault of the Jews; the AMIA bombing - fault of the Jews. Any time any one dies in Israel at the hands of a terrorist - fault of the Jews. Here, were we have raped and beheaded and burned children and 250 disappeared Jews mostly young people in a manner reminiscent of the Night of Pencils - you immediately say - there is no space to consider Jewish student mental health for ten minutes without immediately launching into, implicitly, justifying what has happened which is a PARADIGM SHIFT.

And here you are still not acknowledging that anyone other than Jews has suffered.

Actually, I posted above that I do acknowledge. 10 MINUTES FOR ACKNOWLEDGING A PARADIGM SHIFT IN RAPED, BEHEADED, MURDERED KIDS - and you are incapable. Wow! Sick stuff.

You are super dishonest. Sick stuff indeed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

I was in the West Bank but not Gaza but as far as I know - you've been to none of the 3 places.