Why Hebrew immersion at Sela?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all vaguely anti semitic. Are PPs against Yu Ying and Mundo Verde also? No? Just schools that teach Hebrew... hmmmmm....

Sure, way less people speak Hebrew. But isn't that for the parent to determine whether or not that matters to their family?

People are not against Spanish language immersion because hundreds of millions of people speak Spanish and it is the second most spoken language in this country. People are not against Yu Ying because a billion people speak Mandarin. 10 million people in the world speak Hebrew. And most of those people also speak English. That’s the critique. I would not assume it’s anti-semitism.

You didn't even read my whole post. Isn't it up to the parent to decide if they want their kid learning a language spoken by less people? Not up to you? You want your kid to learn Spanish? Great! Send your kid to Tyler or wherever. But stop railing against Sela like it's the problem with DC schools.

Signed, my kid isn't at any dual language school but think you all arguing about this need to invest this time in helping out at school.

That is not the point.

The point is that 80% of the kids at Sela are below grade level in math and English, and being taught a niche language that has almost not practical value. Moreover, if the vast majority of Sela students are below-grade in English, I doubt that their Hebrew is so great either.

Maybe test scores are low at Sela because they are learning a second language? If so, then why does Sela have lower test scores than other immersion schools in DC that focus on Chinese and Spanish. The obvious answer is that the education at Sela is subpar.

Sela parents can gush all the want about the school but the facts speak for themselves.

אַתָּה לֺא צָרׅיךְ לׅצְעוֺק, דִּבְרֵי חֲכָמִים בְּנַחַת נִשְׁמָעִים.

In the last year of testing before the pandemic (school year 18-19), 55% of Sela students were proficient in math. Yu Ying was 57%. ELA was lower at 42% for Sela and 55% for Yu Ying. Sela has 3 times as many at-risk students. It's no surprise that at schools with higher levels of at-risk, students fell further in the first PARCC test back (21-22 school year) but trying to portray Sela as subpar isn't accurate.

Also, since you've mentioned the other language immersion schools, Sela performed above Mundo and Stokes in math and in ELA was slightly above Mundo but slightly below Stokes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all vaguely anti semitic. Are PPs against Yu Ying and Mundo Verde also? No? Just schools that teach Hebrew... hmmmmm....

Sure, way less people speak Hebrew. But isn't that for the parent to determine whether or not that matters to their family?

People are not against Spanish language immersion because hundreds of millions of people speak Spanish and it is the second most spoken language in this country. People are not against Yu Ying because a billion people speak Mandarin. 10 million people in the world speak Hebrew. And most of those people also speak English. That’s the critique. I would not assume it’s anti-semitism.

You didn't even read my whole post. Isn't it up to the parent to decide if they want their kid learning a language spoken by less people? Not up to you? You want your kid to learn Spanish? Great! Send your kid to Tyler or wherever. But stop railing against Sela like it's the problem with DC schools.

Signed, my kid isn't at any dual language school but think you all arguing about this need to invest this time in helping out at school.

That is not the point.

The point is that 80% of the kids at Sela are below grade level in math and English, and being taught a niche language that has almost not practical value. Moreover, if the vast majority of Sela students are below-grade in English, I doubt that their Hebrew is so great either.

Maybe test scores are low at Sela because they are learning a second language? If so, then why does Sela have lower test scores than other immersion schools in DC that focus on Chinese and Spanish. The obvious answer is that the education at Sela is subpar.

Sela parents can gush all the want about the school but the facts speak for themselves.

אַתָּה לֺא צָרׅיךְ לׅצְעוֺק, דִּבְרֵי חֲכָמִים בְּנַחַת נִשְׁמָעִים.

Where are you seeing 80%?

I am seeing 40% acceptable (so 60% below grade level, not 80) in the places I have looked?

https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/174-0197/star-step-3?framework=es&disaggregation=at_risk&lang=en

The report you've linked is the at-risk performance of the school. Still this doesn't show 80% under grade level. It shows that Sela at-risk students have twice the proficiency rate of at-risk students across the city.

[Anonymous]

So where does this idea come from that Sela isn’t performing? Looks like quite the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They go thru 5th. And its the same story, different thread. Kids go there until PK4 or K - then they bounce to a school with a MS/HS feeder. So Sela will always be in this rinse/repeat.

I think they had a 5th grade class last year of 13 kids?

13 kids? That is tiny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all vaguely anti semitic. Are PPs against Yu Ying and Mundo Verde also? No? Just schools that teach Hebrew... hmmmmm....

Sure, way less people speak Hebrew. But isn't that for the parent to determine whether or not that matters to their family?

People are not against Spanish language immersion because hundreds of millions of people speak Spanish and it is the second most spoken language in this country. People are not against Yu Ying because a billion people speak Mandarin. 10 million people in the world speak Hebrew. And most of those people also speak English. That’s the critique. I would not assume it’s anti-semitism.

You didn't even read my whole post. Isn't it up to the parent to decide if they want their kid learning a language spoken by less people? Not up to you? You want your kid to learn Spanish? Great! Send your kid to Tyler or wherever. But stop railing against Sela like it's the problem with DC schools.

Signed, my kid isn't at any dual language school but think you all arguing about this need to invest this time in helping out at school.

That is not the point.

The point is that 80% of the kids at Sela are below grade level in math and English, and being taught a niche language that has almost not practical value. Moreover, if the vast majority of Sela students are below-grade in English, I doubt that their Hebrew is so great either.

Maybe test scores are low at Sela because they are learning a second language? If so, then why does Sela have lower test scores than other immersion schools in DC that focus on Chinese and Spanish. The obvious answer is that the education at Sela is subpar.

Sela parents can gush all the want about the school but the facts speak for themselves.

אַתָּה לֺא צָרׅיךְ לׅצְעוֺק, דִּבְרֵי חֲכָמִים בְּנַחַת נִשְׁמָעִים.

Google translate is not your friend. And neither is statistics. The scores are not low - and 80% are not below grade level- you are looking at one very small upper grade cohort from COVID and ascribing that to the whole school. Not cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all vaguely anti semitic. Are PPs against Yu Ying and Mundo Verde also? No? Just schools that teach Hebrew... hmmmmm....

Sure, way less people speak Hebrew. But isn't that for the parent to determine whether or not that matters to their family?

People are not against Spanish language immersion because hundreds of millions of people speak Spanish and it is the second most spoken language in this country. People are not against Yu Ying because a billion people speak Mandarin. 10 million people in the world speak Hebrew. And most of those people also speak English. That’s the critique. I would not assume it’s anti-semitism.

You didn't even read my whole post. Isn't it up to the parent to decide if they want their kid learning a language spoken by less people? Not up to you? You want your kid to learn Spanish? Great! Send your kid to Tyler or wherever. But stop railing against Sela like it's the problem with DC schools.

Signed, my kid isn't at any dual language school but think you all arguing about this need to invest this time in helping out at school.

That is not the point.

The point is that 80% of the kids at Sela are below grade level in math and English, and being taught a niche language that has almost not practical value. Moreover, if the vast majority of Sela students are below-grade in English, I doubt that their Hebrew is so great either.

Maybe test scores are low at Sela because they are learning a second language? If so, then why does Sela have lower test scores than other immersion schools in DC that focus on Chinese and Spanish. The obvious answer is that the education at Sela is subpar.

Sela parents can gush all the want about the school but the facts speak for themselves.

אַתָּה לֺא צָרׅיךְ לׅצְעוֺק, דִּבְרֵי חֲכָמִים בְּנַחַת נִשְׁמָעִים.

It was the point of several of the PPs, if you had bothered to read any of them. Several people are saying it shouldn't exist because barely anyone speaks Hebrew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all vaguely anti semitic. Are PPs against Yu Ying and Mundo Verde also? No? Just schools that teach Hebrew... hmmmmm....

Sure, way less people speak Hebrew. But isn't that for the parent to determine whether or not that matters to their family?

People are not against Spanish language immersion because hundreds of millions of people speak Spanish and it is the second most spoken language in this country. People are not against Yu Ying because a billion people speak Mandarin. 10 million people in the world speak Hebrew. And most of those people also speak English. That’s the critique. I would not assume it’s anti-semitism.

You didn't even read my whole post. Isn't it up to the parent to decide if they want their kid learning a language spoken by less people? Not up to you? You want your kid to learn Spanish? Great! Send your kid to Tyler or wherever. But stop railing against Sela like it's the problem with DC schools.

Signed, my kid isn't at any dual language school but think you all arguing about this need to invest this time in helping out at school.

That is not the point.

The point is that 80% of the kids at Sela are below grade level in math and English, and being taught a niche language that has almost not practical value. Moreover, if the vast majority of Sela students are below-grade in English, I doubt that their Hebrew is so great either.

Maybe test scores are low at Sela because they are learning a second language? If so, then why does Sela have lower test scores than other immersion schools in DC that focus on Chinese and Spanish. The obvious answer is that the education at Sela is subpar.

Sela parents can gush all the want about the school but the facts speak for themselves.

אַתָּה לֺא צָרׅיךְ לׅצְעוֺק, דִּבְרֵי חֲכָמִים בְּנַחַת נִשְׁמָעִים.

It was the point of several of the PPs, if you had bothered to read any of them. Several people are saying it shouldn't exist because barely anyone speaks Hebrew.

#obsessed#paternalism#lazy AF#deeplyunsatisfiedwithlifethusmustspewinnerbileatblueribbonschoolforkicks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And one more thought — for a town as supposedly political as DC is, I’m shocked at the political cluelessness of DCUM posters.

They demand tracking, suspension/expulsion, and retaining kids, and they shout “DCPS is failing our kids!”

Guess what— DCPS is failing ALL kids. Your (and my) kids will be alive, not in jail and likely employed at 25. For many DCPS students, that’s not a given. Why are you shocked that DCPS doesn’t prioritize your demands at the expense of trying to help kids at risk of violence, incarceration, addiction, and poverty? Are you REALLY surprised by that?

If you want changes, figure out a way to advocate changes that help all DCPS students, not changes that are 100% associated with past segregation. I mean, how politically wavy do you have to be to realize that? Do you think in 1785 it would have been smart for the new US government to propose a tax on tea, even if that was objectively a good policy?

But DCUM parents make these demands without stopping to think about the political environment or taking a beat to listen to others in the system and what they want and need (which, by the way is mostly the same as what DCUM posters want, as evidenced by the popularity of charter schools).

It is not up to me to come up with solutions. I am not paid $400k and have a govt. paid car + chauffeur like our current chancellor. He and his team should be working on fixing the system. Instead they are failing to provide solutions for any kids - low and high performing kids are all losing out. It should not be a zero sum game. A system with the highest paid teachers in the nation should be able to serve a variety of kids effectively. Eliminating tracking has not helped the kids at the bottom. Successful outcomes for poor kids have not improved. Ballou and Anacostia high schools still have lousy scores and poor post secondary outcomes. There is an epidemic of crime in DC carried out by young teenagers. What exactly has been achieved by getting rid of suspensions and tracking? Wealthy kids will always have opportunities. The kids on the lowest rung are still a complete mess. The majority of kids in the middle have been hurt by the new lower DCPS standards. AA and Hispanic kids who want to go to school to learn and get a decent education are being robbed because the city only cares about the bottom 10% and no one else.

Yep, to the poster above, it’s a zero sum game. Let’s only care about the 10% bottom. No one else. The other kids will be alive and employable and that’s all that matters. It doesn’t matter that they learned nothing, wasted what potential they have. These kids don’t matter and rightly so. It’s amazing the hypocritical thinking and rationale of the poster above all the while arguing DCUM posters are ignoring poor kids. But it’s OK to ignore everyone else but the bottom 10%.

Poster above is also living in the past. These studies she is quoting are old and dates from generations ago at a different time and place. Let’s use these relics to justify policies in DCPS today that is not working. Absolutely no tracking or higher challenging curriculum when you have specifics schools in other places like NYC who tracks/are tests in that comprises of majority low SES kids. Absolutely no suspensions and I’ll add no consequences whatsoever when right here in DC, KIPP does so much better than DCPS because they do enforce consequences and does not tolerate behavior issues. Lastly of course, absolutely no retention even when there are more recent studies showing benefits in the early elementary grades.

The problem is not tracking, suspension, or retention as poster above argues. The crux of the problem is that DCPS is unable to support these kids with what they need. Instead they give excuses like the poster above not to implement programs or strategies to help all the other kids. It’s sad and because of above, the schools in DC are one of the most segregated schools in the country. How is that all working out for you, SJW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And one more thought — for a town as supposedly political as DC is, I’m shocked at the political cluelessness of DCUM posters.

They demand tracking, suspension/expulsion, and retaining kids, and they shout “DCPS is failing our kids!”

Guess what— DCPS is failing ALL kids. Your (and my) kids will be alive, not in jail and likely employed at 25. For many DCPS students, that’s not a given. Why are you shocked that DCPS doesn’t prioritize your demands at the expense of trying to help kids at risk of violence, incarceration, addiction, and poverty? Are you REALLY surprised by that?

If you want changes, figure out a way to advocate changes that help all DCPS students, not changes that are 100% associated with past segregation. I mean, how politically wavy do you have to be to realize that? Do you think in 1785 it would have been smart for the new US government to propose a tax on tea, even if that was objectively a good policy?

But DCUM parents make these demands without stopping to think about the political environment or taking a beat to listen to others in the system and what they want and need (which, by the way is mostly the same as what DCUM posters want, as evidenced by the popularity of charter schools).

It is not up to me to come up with solutions. I am not paid $400k and have a govt. paid car + chauffeur like our current chancellor. He and his team should be working on fixing the system. Instead they are failing to provide solutions for any kids - low and high performing kids are all losing out. It should not be a zero sum game. A system with the highest paid teachers in the nation should be able to serve a variety of kids effectively. Eliminating tracking has not helped the kids at the bottom. Successful outcomes for poor kids have not improved. Ballou and Anacostia high schools still have lousy scores and poor post secondary outcomes. There is an epidemic of crime in DC carried out by young teenagers. What exactly has been achieved by getting rid of suspensions and tracking? Wealthy kids will always have opportunities. The kids on the lowest rung are still a complete mess. The majority of kids in the middle have been hurt by the new lower DCPS standards. AA and Hispanic kids who want to go to school to learn and get a decent education are being robbed because the city only cares about the bottom 10% and no one else.

I’m the person you’re responding to.

I think “it’s not up to me to come up with solutions” is a bit of a cop out. If you advocate for policy positions, then it’s only responsible to actually do the research and understand the impact of those positions.

And, in policy analysis, you can’t say “there are problems, so these policies must be bad.” The question is, would outcomes be even worse with different policies. And if we’re honest, the only possible true answer is “we have no idea” because there hasn’t been rigorous program evaluation done of DCPS policy initiatives recently as far as I know (there was some evaluation of Rhee era stuff, but not so much since then).

There was an extensive, long term evaluation of tracking in Chicago schools that demonstrated that it benefitted many of the kids that advocates would expect — smart low income kids. So that might be a good policy initiative, but only if you can convince parents. And to do that, advocates need to know and understand the history and be willing to work with other parents.

As for suspension/expulsion, I think kids who have not been started on the school to prison pipeline because of a dumb mistake as a 10 year old would argue that current policies are good. But - by many reports, behavior in the schools is really bad, and something needs to change. Which is why I say it makes sense to focus on how to help/reduce harm from kids for whom regular school isn’t the right environment.

This is something close to my heart, because I went to out of control violent schools, and 2 of the kids who terrorized me killed another kid and ended up going to grown up jail. The school would have been a totally different place if about 10 of the consistent offenders (constantly in and out of juvenile detention) were move somewhere more appropriate (our school was actually where they sent kids transitioning out of juvenile detention, which was insane).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with having Hebrew as a language option at school? It's a fascinating language and has practical applications beyond reading religious texts. It's spoken in Israel, which has a vibrant science and technology sector, archeological sites, etc. Middle East diplomacy is a big deal. I think it's great for a school to offer selections beyond the usual Spanish and French. I know a non-Jewish person (a polyglot) who is now learning Hebrew and loves it.

I think the number of adults in the world who speak Hebrew and don't also speak English is probably in the three digits, though; I'm Jewish and all for studying Hebrew-language texts, reading Hebrew, speaking conversational Hebrew, etc., but I personally would not make Hebrew the only non-English language I or my kids learned.

This claim is factaully incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And one more thought — for a town as supposedly political as DC is, I’m shocked at the political cluelessness of DCUM posters.

They demand tracking, suspension/expulsion, and retaining kids, and they shout “DCPS is failing our kids!”

Guess what— DCPS is failing ALL kids. Your (and my) kids will be alive, not in jail and likely employed at 25. For many DCPS students, that’s not a given. Why are you shocked that DCPS doesn’t prioritize your demands at the expense of trying to help kids at risk of violence, incarceration, addiction, and poverty? Are you REALLY surprised by that?

If you want changes, figure out a way to advocate changes that help all DCPS students, not changes that are 100% associated with past segregation. I mean, how politically wavy do you have to be to realize that? Do you think in 1785 it would have been smart for the new US government to propose a tax on tea, even if that was objectively a good policy?

But DCUM parents make these demands without stopping to think about the political environment or taking a beat to listen to others in the system and what they want and need (which, by the way is mostly the same as what DCUM posters want, as evidenced by the popularity of charter schools).

It is not up to me to come up with solutions. I am not paid $400k and have a govt. paid car + chauffeur like our current chancellor. He and his team should be working on fixing the system. Instead they are failing to provide solutions for any kids - low and high performing kids are all losing out. It should not be a zero sum game. A system with the highest paid teachers in the nation should be able to serve a variety of kids effectively. Eliminating tracking has not helped the kids at the bottom. Successful outcomes for poor kids have not improved. Ballou and Anacostia high schools still have lousy scores and poor post secondary outcomes. There is an epidemic of crime in DC carried out by young teenagers. What exactly has been achieved by getting rid of suspensions and tracking? Wealthy kids will always have opportunities. The kids on the lowest rung are still a complete mess. The majority of kids in the middle have been hurt by the new lower DCPS standards. AA and Hispanic kids who want to go to school to learn and get a decent education are being robbed because the city only cares about the bottom 10% and no one else.

Yep, to the poster above, it’s a zero sum game. Let’s only care about the 10% bottom. No one else. The other kids will be alive and employable and that’s all that matters. It doesn’t matter that they learned nothing, wasted what potential they have. These kids don’t matter and rightly so. It’s amazing the hypocritical thinking and rationale of the poster above all the while arguing DCUM posters are ignoring poor kids. But it’s OK to ignore everyone else but the bottom 10%.

This is where DCPS falls down and where I hope we're almost past the vocal minority who argues that anyone who cares about the upper 90% (let along the top 10%) must be a racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A previous poster who said Sela is a well-run, smaller school perfectly describes the appeal for our family. We're going into year three at Sela and had looked at a variety of schools during the PK3 lottery, both other immersion charters, non-immersion charters, and DCPS (both in-bound and a nearby school). We were primarily looking for an environment that felt like the right fit. Sela was not our first choice but we've now passed on the lottery twice because of the great experience our child has had there. We have found warm and welcoming families, and the school leadership is responsive and organized, with clear goals for Sela. We do not speak Hebrew and are not Jewish.

We appreciate the language immersion, and I find the discussion of which language is more useful a little silly. Who knows how many of the children in the other immersion charters will pursue French, Spanish, or Mandarin long term? Eventually, it will be up to my child which additional language she wants to pursue (if any), and I think learning a second language now will help her in the future.

There is also some cynicism in this thread and a typical DCUM habit of introducing misinformation even though the answers are easily searchable. Of course, the school is secular and non-religious. The school is not under enrolled - it's just not one of the charters that has a long waitlist and my understanding is there is always a few spots open right before the start of the school year.

I am happy to hear that a well run school exists!

[Anonymous]

Question: how much do people think Sela is tied to the terrrrrible politics of Israel these days? Does the Hebrew-is-one-country's-language-only thing mean it is inextricably linked to Israel's internal fights over whether it is a democracy with the rule of law, the interminable insurgency and settler radicalism, and the general/growing international perception that it is operating an apartheid state (in all but name)?

I for one spent most of my life thinking Israel was like the U.S., founded on great principles mixed with some problems but headed the right direction, but the past thirty years seem to have been an uneven slide toward emphasizing everything bad about it. (The U.S. has been a bit like this too, but nowhere near the scope of Israel's drama.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question: how much do people think Sela is tied to the terrrrrible politics of Israel these days? Does the Hebrew-is-one-country's-language-only thing mean it is inextricably linked to Israel's internal fights over whether it is a democracy with the rule of law, the interminable insurgency and settler radicalism, and the general/growing international perception that it is operating an apartheid state (in all but name)?

I for one spent most of my life thinking Israel was like the U.S., founded on great principles mixed with some problems but headed the right direction, but the past thirty years seem to have been an uneven slide toward emphasizing everything bad about it. (The U.S. has been a bit like this too, but nowhere near the scope of Israel's drama.)

Wanted to say I loved your brilliant letter to Mundo Verde telling them to take down those awful Dominican Republic, Salvadoran, and Mexican flags because of your strong opinions on their internal politics - but your ten page blank verse soliloquy to Yu Ying about the evils of Communism was even better. Writing to Stokes with perfect usage of le subjunctif to protest police violence in les banlieues? Chapeau! Like you, I believe strongly in collective punishment, especially when kiddos are involved. Well-run school? Classical language? Obvi just a front for those rootless cosmopolitans/globalists, wink wink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: how much do people think Sela is tied to the terrrrrible politics of Israel these days? Does the Hebrew-is-one-country's-language-only thing mean it is inextricably linked to Israel's internal fights over whether it is a democracy with the rule of law, the interminable insurgency and settler radicalism, and the general/growing international perception that it is operating an apartheid state (in all but name)?

I for one spent most of my life thinking Israel was like the U.S., founded on great principles mixed with some problems but headed the right direction, but the past thirty years seem to have been an uneven slide toward emphasizing everything bad about it. (The U.S. has been a bit like this too, but nowhere near the scope of Israel's drama.)

Wanted to say I loved your brilliant letter to Mundo Verde telling them to take down those awful Dominican Republic, Salvadoran, and Mexican flags because of your strong opinions on their internal politics - but your ten page blank verse soliloquy to Yu Ying about the evils of Communism was even better. Writing to Stokes with perfect usage of le subjunctif to protest police violence in les banlieues? Chapeau! Like you, I believe strongly in collective punishment, especially when kiddos are involved. Well-run school? Classical language? Obvi just a front for those rootless cosmopolitans/globalists, wink wink.

Perfection.