APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

First they overcrowded Glebe
And I did not speak out
Because I didn't have kids there and so eff that.
Then they repurposed McKinley
And I did not speak out
and in fact was a little grateful over it because better them than us.
Then they came for Nottingham
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
and in fact for some reason people don't seem to like me that much and they're starting to get on my nerves

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is there another elementary school that has had 3 pedestrian deaths within 2 blocks of tbe school in the last decade? Nottingham isn’t set up for the kind of traffic influx they would need. It can’t even handle the current traffic, where most people walk.

If it’s so dangerous for pedestrians maybe it makes sense to bus kids in and use it as swing space rather than have so many walkers.

If there was space for the buses needed to move 450-600 kids, I might agree with you. There is not in fact space for that amount of buses. Also this ignores that there will still be a significant added influx of cars due to extended day drop offs/pickups.

There is nothing more menacing than a series of distracted drivers racing the clock and treating your neighborhood like their highway/parking lot. The Tuckahoe neighborhood goes through this every few years with McConnell, and that is a well established school community. We’d be reinventing the wheel every year with the Airbnb approach APS has planned for Nottingham.

This is a bit more of a “sacrifice” to this community than which blue ribbon school we attend, and again, not one word about it in the APS analysis.

The biggest eye roll isn’t big enough. Lots of neighborhoods already have the traffic of which you speak. FFS, there are 3 schools within a few blocks of each other on Carlin Springs Rd all with the same start (during morning rush) and end times. If APS doesn’t give an eff about that, why should they fall over dead because a few buses will be “invading” your neighborhood. Also, it’s really galling that you liken your neighbors’ kids to a plague of locusts. Deal with it! Arlington is dense, crowded, full of traffic. Welcome!

Interesting choice of words. What’s a few dead rich white people, am I right?

WUT? APS staff is rich white people? “THEY” is APS staff, not Nottingham parents.

I am referring to the choice of words “drop dead”, which is exactly what happened to several individuals within sight of Nottingham due to design problems with that road.

But Carlin Springs, an arterial that intersects with other arterials, is busy, so us “rich white people” should just deal with a dangerous influx of cars on a deadly road not built to handle it. Do I got that right? Just want to understand the depth of the sacrifice we supposedly have no choice to make up here for the convenience of APS planning staff.

Have you seen the road in and out of Cardinal? Just checking.

Tiny violins is right.

Are you referring to State Route 27, Washington Boulevard? Yes, I travel that arterial road often - on foot, by car, and even occasionally by bus.

The main bus/car access to Cardinal is from McKinley Rd, which is a small road with SFH homes directly across from the access point. The other vehicle access point to the school is in the back through a narrow residential street as well. It's quite tight and there is a a lot of traffic and competing things in that area including a heavily used public library. There have been many concerns about all the kids walking to school in that area and the influx of cars and pedestrians, which understandably you are not aware of since you are concerned about Nottingham.

It is a very heavily trafficked area and imagine it has been that way for a long time with the shopping center, library, etc. I’m surprised there was so many concerns about traffic given the community’s desire for a neighborhood school serving Westover.

But I think we can all agree it’s one thing to suffer increased traffic for something that improves your neighborhood versus something that is more convenient for people undergoing temporary challenges at soon-to-be-renovated schools in other parts of the county.

Sounds like this is what it’s really about. “Other” kids coming into your neighborhood. As soon as people brought up the possibility of it being Southie kids. Really, SMH.

No, it's not about that, and that doesn't even make sense. Their kids will attend Tuckahoe or Discovery - other wealthy, non-diverse N. Arlington Elementary schools.

It’s the busses and cars, folks. Turning a 90% walk school into a 100% drop off school, while also forcing more Nottingham kids into cars for their treks to Nottingham and Discovery. Same outcome as if they were coming from Randolph, Jamestown, or more likely, both over subsequent years.

I know this doesn’t fit the “rich white racist a-holes in the North hate us Southies” bias but trust me when I say it’s that simple. We got all types up here, including people who paid less for their 22207 homes than you did for yours in 22204. People have died on these roads. It’s not a made up concern.

Np. I am incredibly sensitive to the fatalities and recent pedestrian issues in this neighborhood as I grew up mere feet from one of the fatalities and my parents still live there. But the issues that were causing these horrific deaths were addressed with two four way stops and major changes to the roads, posts, etc. Major traffic calming measures that were necessary and important.

The issue of busses a couple times a day is really such a separate issue. To tie it to the previous issues when major road changes have already been made doesn’t feel completely genuine to me. I realize it isnt people’s first choice but I promise you it won’t be as bad as you imagine. Many, many of us live near schools in APS with lots of bus and drop off happenings and the impact truly is negligible. It truly, truly is just a blip.

It’s ok to say dang, I preferred the old option but also recognize that public school systems have to make decisions for the good of everyone. And that everyone in your neighborhood will be moved to other HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER elementary schools. I really appreciate the posters saying this sucks, no one ever likes to have a change! But it will be ok and the kids will be fine. Because they will. And the neighborhood will too. It’s similar to McKinley, people spent soooo much energy and it’s all fine…

[Anonymous]

Hahahaha. Yes. Karma for Nottingham who was oh so obnoxious in the 2018 go round.

[Anonymous]

This is ridiculous. They should shut down one of freaking option school, like ATS, send those kids back to their home schools, where they will easily be absorbed, and make it the swing space. Why would they destroy a well-established school with a large percentage of walkers in order to bus in 600 children? (How many busses is that anyway, like 20? That driveway can barely accommodate the two busses it currently has).

Not to mention, with this move, APS has basically created a portal for wealthy Nottingham families - taking invested and involved parents out of APS and straight into private. All those SAHMs who have the time and energy to lead the PTAs are not going to invest that time when they know their kids are going to get kicked out of their home school after third grade.

ATS should not exist. It does not teach any specialized skills (like an immersion or vocational or fine arts school). The entirety of its purpose is to make accommodations for families who do not want to make the investment in their own home school and community.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is there another elementary school that has had 3 pedestrian deaths within 2 blocks of tbe school in the last decade? Nottingham isn’t set up for the kind of traffic influx they would need. It can’t even handle the current traffic, where most people walk.

If it’s so dangerous for pedestrians maybe it makes sense to bus kids in and use it as swing space rather than have so many walkers.

If there was space for the buses needed to move 450-600 kids, I might agree with you. There is not in fact space for that amount of buses. Also this ignores that there will still be a significant added influx of cars due to extended day drop offs/pickups.

There is nothing more menacing than a series of distracted drivers racing the clock and treating your neighborhood like their highway/parking lot. The Tuckahoe neighborhood goes through this every few years with McConnell, and that is a well established school community. We’d be reinventing the wheel every year with the Airbnb approach APS has planned for Nottingham.

This is a bit more of a “sacrifice” to this community than which blue ribbon school we attend, and again, not one word about it in the APS analysis.

The biggest eye roll isn’t big enough. Lots of neighborhoods already have the traffic of which you speak. FFS, there are 3 schools within a few blocks of each other on Carlin Springs Rd all with the same start (during morning rush) and end times. If APS doesn’t give an eff about that, why should they fall over dead because a few buses will be “invading” your neighborhood. Also, it’s really galling that you liken your neighbors’ kids to a plague of locusts. Deal with it! Arlington is dense, crowded, full of traffic. Welcome!

Interesting choice of words. What’s a few dead rich white people, am I right?

WUT? APS staff is rich white people? “THEY” is APS staff, not Nottingham parents.

I am referring to the choice of words “drop dead”, which is exactly what happened to several individuals within sight of Nottingham due to design problems with that road.

But Carlin Springs, an arterial that intersects with other arterials, is busy, so us “rich white people” should just deal with a dangerous influx of cars on a deadly road not built to handle it. Do I got that right? Just want to understand the depth of the sacrifice we supposedly have no choice to make up here for the convenience of APS planning staff.

Yeah, ok. You "got" it. You got it right that the existing safety and school conditions for other people (poorer people) don't matter and they should all just keep sucking it up because that's how it already is, so no "sacrifice" for them. And they don't need or want the convenience of nearby walkable schools that are under-enrolled. They get what they pay for and you Nottingham people get what you deserve. The old saying does imply that the higher you climb, the harder your fall. So, looking at it from your perspective, I can understand how the proposal is a true hardship and excessive sacrifice for you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is there another elementary school that has had 3 pedestrian deaths within 2 blocks of tbe school in the last decade? Nottingham isn’t set up for the kind of traffic influx they would need. It can’t even handle the current traffic, where most people walk.

If it’s so dangerous for pedestrians maybe it makes sense to bus kids in and use it as swing space rather than have so many walkers.

If there was space for the buses needed to move 450-600 kids, I might agree with you. There is not in fact space for that amount of buses. Also this ignores that there will still be a significant added influx of cars due to extended day drop offs/pickups.

There is nothing more menacing than a series of distracted drivers racing the clock and treating your neighborhood like their highway/parking lot. The Tuckahoe neighborhood goes through this every few years with McConnell, and that is a well established school community. We’d be reinventing the wheel every year with the Airbnb approach APS has planned for Nottingham.

This is a bit more of a “sacrifice” to this community than which blue ribbon school we attend, and again, not one word about it in the APS analysis.

The biggest eye roll isn’t big enough. Lots of neighborhoods already have the traffic of which you speak. FFS, there are 3 schools within a few blocks of each other on Carlin Springs Rd all with the same start (during morning rush) and end times. If APS doesn’t give an eff about that, why should they fall over dead because a few buses will be “invading” your neighborhood. Also, it’s really galling that you liken your neighbors’ kids to a plague of locusts. Deal with it! Arlington is dense, crowded, full of traffic. Welcome!

Interesting choice of words. What’s a few dead rich white people, am I right?

WUT? APS staff is rich white people? “THEY” is APS staff, not Nottingham parents.

I am referring to the choice of words “drop dead”, which is exactly what happened to several individuals within sight of Nottingham due to design problems with that road.

But Carlin Springs, an arterial that intersects with other arterials, is busy, so us “rich white people” should just deal with a dangerous influx of cars on a deadly road not built to handle it. Do I got that right? Just want to understand the depth of the sacrifice we supposedly have no choice to make up here for the convenience of APS planning staff.

Have you seen the road in and out of Cardinal? Just checking.

Tiny violins is right.

Are you referring to State Route 27, Washington Boulevard? Yes, I travel that arterial road often - on foot, by car, and even occasionally by bus.

The main bus/car access to Cardinal is from McKinley Rd, which is a small road with SFH homes directly across from the access point. The other vehicle access point to the school is in the back through a narrow residential street as well. It's quite tight and there is a a lot of traffic and competing things in that area including a heavily used public library. There have been many concerns about all the kids walking to school in that area and the influx of cars and pedestrians, which understandably you are not aware of since you are concerned about Nottingham.

It is a very heavily trafficked area and imagine it has been that way for a long time with the shopping center, library, etc. I’m surprised there was so many concerns about traffic given the community’s desire for a neighborhood school serving Westover.

But I think we can all agree it’s one thing to suffer increased traffic for something that improves your neighborhood versus something that is more convenient for people undergoing temporary challenges at soon-to-be-renovated schools in other parts of the county.

You mean community sacrifice, like when people who lived near McKinley gave up their walkable elementary school so that it could be switched over to a option school, and now need to get bused to Cardinal or Ashlawn? Is that the kind of unfamiliar "good for everybody not just myself" choice you are referring to? Not sure you have heard of this, check back in if you need more information about this kind of thing.

I don’t support option schools. I think they were a good idea during the declining enrollment years of the 1990s and early 2000s because they kept people invested in public schools instead of moving to FFX or going private. With the capacity issues we are facing today, it does not make sense to keep them. People like them because it allows them to spend $1.2m on their home instead of $1.8m and still surround their kids with highly motivated peers, but let’s call it for what it is - a lucky lottery for the few that everyone else has to pay for.

If there is a demonstrated educational benefit from any of these programs it should be rolled out more broadly. Otherwise, neighborhood schools for all and targeted transfer zones where it makes sense.

Jokes on you. I only spent 455K to send my kid to an option school.

[Anonymous]

No one cares if Nottingham pta moms leave Arlington. Seriously. No one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is there another elementary school that has had 3 pedestrian deaths within 2 blocks of tbe school in the last decade? Nottingham isn’t set up for the kind of traffic influx they would need. It can’t even handle the current traffic, where most people walk.

If it’s so dangerous for pedestrians maybe it makes sense to bus kids in and use it as swing space rather than have so many walkers.

If there was space for the buses needed to move 450-600 kids, I might agree with you. There is not in fact space for that amount of buses. Also this ignores that there will still be a significant added influx of cars due to extended day drop offs/pickups.

There is nothing more menacing than a series of distracted drivers racing the clock and treating your neighborhood like their highway/parking lot. The Tuckahoe neighborhood goes through this every few years with McConnell, and that is a well established school community. We’d be reinventing the wheel every year with the Airbnb approach APS has planned for Nottingham.

This is a bit more of a “sacrifice” to this community than which blue ribbon school we attend, and again, not one word about it in the APS analysis.

Look, I've seen Nottingham's property. You have more space than you know what to do with up there. Why don't you take a look at just about any other school in the system and see how they manage buses and cars and how most of the County lives, and how half of it lives every day year round.

If you want to plot it out where you’d put the buses go right ahead. Figure you’d need 8-10, twice per day, and probably 200 new car trips excluding teachers. I don’t even think the option schools have that level of burden but I could be wrong.

But I get it, we’re all supposed to accept this half baked proposal on faith and get on with the suffering because it suits your idea of economic justice. Tell me - what’s the going rate on a new build in 22204 or 22206 these days?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is there another elementary school that has had 3 pedestrian deaths within 2 blocks of tbe school in the last decade? Nottingham isn’t set up for the kind of traffic influx they would need. It can’t even handle the current traffic, where most people walk.

If it’s so dangerous for pedestrians maybe it makes sense to bus kids in and use it as swing space rather than have so many walkers.

If there was space for the buses needed to move 450-600 kids, I might agree with you. There is not in fact space for that amount of buses. Also this ignores that there will still be a significant added influx of cars due to extended day drop offs/pickups.

There is nothing more menacing than a series of distracted drivers racing the clock and treating your neighborhood like their highway/parking lot. The Tuckahoe neighborhood goes through this every few years with McConnell, and that is a well established school community. We’d be reinventing the wheel every year with the Airbnb approach APS has planned for Nottingham.

This is a bit more of a “sacrifice” to this community than which blue ribbon school we attend, and again, not one word about it in the APS analysis.

The biggest eye roll isn’t big enough. Lots of neighborhoods already have the traffic of which you speak. FFS, there are 3 schools within a few blocks of each other on Carlin Springs Rd all with the same start (during morning rush) and end times. If APS doesn’t give an eff about that, why should they fall over dead because a few buses will be “invading” your neighborhood. Also, it’s really galling that you liken your neighbors’ kids to a plague of locusts. Deal with it! Arlington is dense, crowded, full of traffic. Welcome!

Interesting choice of words. What’s a few dead rich white people, am I right?

WUT? APS staff is rich white people? “THEY” is APS staff, not Nottingham parents.

I am referring to the choice of words “drop dead”, which is exactly what happened to several individuals within sight of Nottingham due to design problems with that road.

But Carlin Springs, an arterial that intersects with other arterials, is busy, so us “rich white people” should just deal with a dangerous influx of cars on a deadly road not built to handle it. Do I got that right? Just want to understand the depth of the sacrifice we supposedly have no choice to make up here for the convenience of APS planning staff.

Have you seen the road in and out of Cardinal? Just checking.

Tiny violins is right.

Are you referring to State Route 27, Washington Boulevard? Yes, I travel that arterial road often - on foot, by car, and even occasionally by bus.

The main bus/car access to Cardinal is from McKinley Rd, which is a small road with SFH homes directly across from the access point. The other vehicle access point to the school is in the back through a narrow residential street as well. It's quite tight and there is a a lot of traffic and competing things in that area including a heavily used public library. There have been many concerns about all the kids walking to school in that area and the influx of cars and pedestrians, which understandably you are not aware of since you are concerned about Nottingham.

It is a very heavily trafficked area and imagine it has been that way for a long time with the shopping center, library, etc. I’m surprised there was so many concerns about traffic given the community’s desire for a neighborhood school serving Westover.

But I think we can all agree it’s one thing to suffer increased traffic for something that improves your neighborhood versus something that is more convenient for people undergoing temporary challenges at soon-to-be-renovated schools in other parts of the county.

Sounds like this is what it’s really about. “Other” kids coming into your neighborhood. As soon as people brought up the possibility of it being Southie kids. Really, SMH.

Ding Ding Ding! Can't wait for the Nottingham parents to start "advocating" on behalf of Randolph families. How in the world will those poor parents get to the swing space at Nottingham? You know they don't have cars and can't take the bus!

Well, tbf, it isn't like public transit around here is so efficient that they can just zip up to Nottingham to pick up their sick kid in only a few minutes longer time than they can currently get to Randolph, or Barcroft. Nevertheless, I'm confident they'll manage the inconveniences for one year a lot better than the Nottingham people will endure theirs.

[Anonymous]

Why is APS considering relocatables in their capacity calculations. I thought the idea was those are temporary…

[Anonymous]

What do school districts in other areas do when they need to renovate a school? Most do not have an empty school that they can move kids into as swing space.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why would you not just push out the population of the to-be renovated school into schools that are closer? Even if some kids are bussed to other schools, it is going to be better and shorter bus ride as opposed to trucking everyone to the north west corner of Arlington and destroying the heartbeat of an entire neighborhood?

Also, far less disruptive would be leasing office space as temporary swing space. They did this with the APS preschool, the one that provide space for APS employees- it seemed like a really nice space. Especially with the low occupancy rates of office space across Arlington

We don’t live in the immediate Nottingham surrounding neighborhood, and my child is old enough that he will not be impacted (he probably wants to be impacted and use the slide at Discovery). However, fundamentally, I don’t think students or neighborhoods should be sacrificed when there are other viable options.

I'm not sure I follow. You propose to move kids from a school being renovated to various nearby schools for the time during the renovation, and then back together again once the renovation is complete? You propose to overcrowd/disrupt multiple "nearby" neighborhood schools temporarily to do a renovation and then disrupt them again in a year when the renovation is complete? Rather than "destroy the heartbeat of an entire neighborhood" that must not beat all that strongly if it can't withstand a change in the location to where it sends its kids to school?

Yes, eventually you would re-open the school and children would attend it. Renovation will take years. Closing down Nottingham also overcrowds and disrupts the nearby schools - you think the Discovery families are going to be happy about having their kids in a trailer so kids from across the city can be bussed to Nottingham?
The heartbeat of the neighborhood is because the school is in the middle of the neighborhood and the hub of a lot activities.

Renovations generally don't take years. Most of the displaced kids would only be so for one school year. Dispersing kids at the schools being renovated out to multiple schools, splitting their school up? That disturbs multiple schools and literally tears the school apart into different directions. And fitting in the teachers at multiple nearby schools? Your neighborhood can still have activities at the Nottingham grounds. You can also do what other more dense neighborhoods do and block parties in the streets. Or go to the park. What on earth would you all do if a tornado blew NES down?!

[Anonymous]

Y'all are all playing right into APS's hands. Fight amongst yourselves when the real issue is the bizarre decision-making.

APS is at capacity! So close down a school? For what what problem are we trying to solve? What renovations are absolutely needed that will take longer than a few months that can't be broken down into summer-long chunks? For how long? No partial school closures while renovating - it's all or nothing? These are BASIC questions that have no answers in the pre-CIP. This level of mismanagement and lack of rigor would get me fired at my job. Who cares about the N vs S nonsense.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is there another elementary school that has had 3 pedestrian deaths within 2 blocks of tbe school in the last decade? Nottingham isn’t set up for the kind of traffic influx they would need. It can’t even handle the current traffic, where most people walk.

If it’s so dangerous for pedestrians maybe it makes sense to bus kids in and use it as swing space rather than have so many walkers.

If there was space for the buses needed to move 450-600 kids, I might agree with you. There is not in fact space for that amount of buses. Also this ignores that there will still be a significant added influx of cars due to extended day drop offs/pickups.

There is nothing more menacing than a series of distracted drivers racing the clock and treating your neighborhood like their highway/parking lot. The Tuckahoe neighborhood goes through this every few years with McConnell, and that is a well established school community. We’d be reinventing the wheel every year with the Airbnb approach APS has planned for Nottingham.

This is a bit more of a “sacrifice” to this community than which blue ribbon school we attend, and again, not one word about it in the APS analysis.

The biggest eye roll isn’t big enough. Lots of neighborhoods already have the traffic of which you speak. FFS, there are 3 schools within a few blocks of each other on Carlin Springs Rd all with the same start (during morning rush) and end times. If APS doesn’t give an eff about that, why should they fall over dead because a few buses will be “invading” your neighborhood. Also, it’s really galling that you liken your neighbors’ kids to a plague of locusts. Deal with it! Arlington is dense, crowded, full of traffic. Welcome!

Interesting choice of words. What’s a few dead rich white people, am I right?

WUT? APS staff is rich white people? “THEY” is APS staff, not Nottingham parents.

I am referring to the choice of words “drop dead”, which is exactly what happened to several individuals within sight of Nottingham due to design problems with that road.

But Carlin Springs, an arterial that intersects with other arterials, is busy, so us “rich white people” should just deal with a dangerous influx of cars on a deadly road not built to handle it. Do I got that right? Just want to understand the depth of the sacrifice we supposedly have no choice to make up here for the convenience of APS planning staff.

Have you seen the road in and out of Cardinal? Just checking.

Tiny violins is right.

Are you referring to State Route 27, Washington Boulevard? Yes, I travel that arterial road often - on foot, by car, and even occasionally by bus.

The main bus/car access to Cardinal is from McKinley Rd, which is a small road with SFH homes directly across from the access point. The other vehicle access point to the school is in the back through a narrow residential street as well. It's quite tight and there is a a lot of traffic and competing things in that area including a heavily used public library. There have been many concerns about all the kids walking to school in that area and the influx of cars and pedestrians, which understandably you are not aware of since you are concerned about Nottingham.

It is a very heavily trafficked area and imagine it has been that way for a long time with the shopping center, library, etc. I’m surprised there was so many concerns about traffic given the community’s desire for a neighborhood school serving Westover.

But I think we can all agree it’s one thing to suffer increased traffic for something that improves your neighborhood versus something that is more convenient for people undergoing temporary challenges at soon-to-be-renovated schools in other parts of the county.

Sounds like this is what it’s really about. “Other” kids coming into your neighborhood. As soon as people brought up the possibility of it being Southie kids. Really, SMH.

No, it's not about that, and that doesn't even make sense. Their kids will attend Tuckahoe or Discovery - other wealthy, non-diverse N. Arlington Elementary schools.

It’s the busses and cars, folks. Turning a 90% walk school into a 100% drop off school, while also forcing more Nottingham kids into cars for their treks to Nottingham and Discovery. Same outcome as if they were coming from Randolph, Jamestown, or more likely, both over subsequent years.

I know this doesn’t fit the “rich white racist a-holes in the North hate us Southies” bias but trust me when I say it’s that simple. We got all types up here, including people who paid less for their 22207 homes than you did for yours in 22204. People have died on these roads. It’s not a made up concern.

You're not the only street with pedestrian fatalities. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one cares if Nottingham pta moms leave Arlington. Seriously. No one.

I believe this is true. The problem is when all the north Arlington pta moms leave and you are stuck in Alexandria public schools. Good luck!