TJ Admit, but worried!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are conflating two things

1. Old process is flawed

Hence, it seems the assumption seems to be

2. New process is good/better

I would agree the old process is flawed but new process is even more flawed. I do like the idea of some percentage of kids from each HS getting into TJ. That is a good decision. Dropping recommendation letters is the most damaging of all.

We need reform, but in a thoughtful way. Not like the rushed half baked job they did in the middle of a pandemic.

The new process is significantly better for the overall health of the community. It has massively reduced the incentive for participation in TJ-prep programs, and children who are denied admission are faring much better than they were previously because parents are blaming the new process instead of their children. The trauma that kids in my community would suffer in the old days was awful... the new process has saved many abusive parents from themselves in a way.

Um. Go to any prep place. They still have TJ prep, but it is now geared towards essays and writing. It is full of students as early as 5/6th grade. New process just shifted everything over to writing. The prep places list all the TJ admissions still. Old process let in naturally gifted math students and some prepped students. New process mostly results in naturally gifted writers and prepped students + experience factored students. The problem is TJ is supposed to be a STEM school. I mean why didn't they just add experience factors to the old system?

Because SB members are idiots and think Asian students can't write. Guess what, Asian students excel in writing/reading and math so their own prejudice and stupidity resulted in moronic process.

The process is race-blind and a clear improvement over the old one where people were buying the test.

At most any test-buying was for two years, unless they were bribing the test company directly, in which case it was for three years.
And they are still buying the test.

The evidence is pretty clear that this took place at Curie for only the classes of 2023 and 2024. For each class, approximately 60-65% of the South Asian students in each class were captured by the published list of names that Curie put out on Facebook - as well as approximately 80% of the South Asian students from Loudoun County. This is why the presumption exists - fairly or unfairly - that South Asian students from Loudoun (the math suggests it's far less of an issue in the other jurisdictions) in each of these two classes essentially bought admission to TJ.

Curie would have done better, in spite of whatever custom exists in India, to protect the privacy of these students by not publishing their names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd ask his current math teacher whether they think your child would struggle with the TJ math. TJ math is pretty intense, and it could be quite challenging for a kid who isn't particularly strong at math.

If he's only going to complete Calculus in 12th grade, he might struggle to get admitted for Comp Sci or engineering in college. Both majors tend to have very competitive admissions, and he'll look weak compared to other kids graduating from TJ.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Assuming the comment means "good, selective college", it would be ridiculous at most high schools where calculus in 12th would be considered the most rigorous option, but at TJ it's nowhere close. Selective colleges practicing holistic admissions will compare applicants within the context of their school, which works against students at top schools like TJ

The same logic that affords the idea that "top students" can be identified by math advancement in middle school is used here to claim that colleges only look at math advancement to determine "top students" at TJ. Simply not the case. Indeed, historically TJ students who have entered in Geometry have had some of the strongest college admissions results because there is a tendency for them to contribute to the school community in other meaningful ways that are more important to colleges than what math class you're taking. Additionally, when colleges are looking at rigor of course load, they're looking at a lot more than just math.

Comments like this prove that parents have no idea what actually gets kids into elite colleges. College is a business, and with the possible exception of MIT and Caltech, math advancement is so far down the list of what makes good business sense for colleges to admit kids on that it barely registers.

[Anonymous]

if you worried then just go where you feel good, no one can tell you what is right for your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd ask his current math teacher whether they think your child would struggle with the TJ math. TJ math is pretty intense, and it could be quite challenging for a kid who isn't particularly strong at math.

If he's only going to complete Calculus in 12th grade, he might struggle to get admitted for Comp Sci or engineering in college. Both majors tend to have very competitive admissions, and he'll look weak compared to other kids graduating from TJ.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Assuming the comment means "good, selective college", it would be ridiculous at most high schools where calculus in 12th would be considered the most rigorous option, but at TJ it's nowhere close. Selective colleges practicing holistic admissions will compare applicants within the context of their school, which works against students at top schools like TJ

The same logic that affords the idea that "top students" can be identified by math advancement in middle school is used here to claim that colleges only look at math advancement to determine "top students" at TJ. Simply not the case. Indeed, historically TJ students who have entered in Geometry have had some of the strongest college admissions results because there is a tendency for them to contribute to the school community in other meaningful ways that are more important to colleges than what math class you're taking. Additionally, when colleges are looking at rigor of course load, they're looking at a lot more than just math.

Comments like this prove that parents have no idea what actually gets kids into elite colleges. College is a business, and with the possible exception of MIT and Caltech, math advancement is so far down the list of what makes good business sense for colleges to admit kids on that it barely registers.

Historically, the students who entered in Geometry had amazing teacher recommendations, test scores, or other outstanding things to compensate for the lower math level. When math level is taken into consideration in the selection process, it's not surprising that the kids who were admitted despite only being in Geometry were amazing in other ways.

This is wholly different from the current process, where math level is not considered at all in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd ask his current math teacher whether they think your child would struggle with the TJ math. TJ math is pretty intense, and it could be quite challenging for a kid who isn't particularly strong at math.

If he's only going to complete Calculus in 12th grade, he might struggle to get admitted for Comp Sci or engineering in college. Both majors tend to have very competitive admissions, and he'll look weak compared to other kids graduating from TJ.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Assuming the comment means "good, selective college", it would be ridiculous at most high schools where calculus in 12th would be considered the most rigorous option, but at TJ it's nowhere close. Selective colleges practicing holistic admissions will compare applicants within the context of their school, which works against students at top schools like TJ

The same logic that affords the idea that "top students" can be identified by math advancement in middle school is used here to claim that colleges only look at math advancement to determine "top students" at TJ. Simply not the case. Indeed, historically TJ students who have entered in Geometry have had some of the strongest college admissions results because there is a tendency for them to contribute to the school community in other meaningful ways that are more important to colleges than what math class you're taking. Additionally, when colleges are looking at rigor of course load, they're looking at a lot more than just math.

Comments like this prove that parents have no idea what actually gets kids into elite colleges. College is a business, and with the possible exception of MIT and Caltech, math advancement is so far down the list of what makes good business sense for colleges to admit kids on that it barely registers.

Historically, the students who entered in Geometry had amazing teacher recommendations, test scores, or other outstanding things to compensate for the lower math level. When math level is taken into consideration in the selection process, it's not surprising that the kids who were admitted despite only being in Geometry were amazing in other ways.

This is wholly different from the current process, where math level is not considered at all in the process.

Yes, it's much more competitive. Those getting with geometry are simply amazing students who are the very top students at their schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd ask his current math teacher whether they think your child would struggle with the TJ math. TJ math is pretty intense, and it could be quite challenging for a kid who isn't particularly strong at math.

If he's only going to complete Calculus in 12th grade, he might struggle to get admitted for Comp Sci or engineering in college. Both majors tend to have very competitive admissions, and he'll look weak compared to other kids graduating from TJ.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Assuming the comment means "good, selective college", it would be ridiculous at most high schools where calculus in 12th would be considered the most rigorous option, but at TJ it's nowhere close. Selective colleges practicing holistic admissions will compare applicants within the context of their school, which works against students at top schools like TJ

The same logic that affords the idea that "top students" can be identified by math advancement in middle school is used here to claim that colleges only look at math advancement to determine "top students" at TJ. Simply not the case. Indeed, historically TJ students who have entered in Geometry have had some of the strongest college admissions results because there is a tendency for them to contribute to the school community in other meaningful ways that are more important to colleges than what math class you're taking. Additionally, when colleges are looking at rigor of course load, they're looking at a lot more than just math.

Comments like this prove that parents have no idea what actually gets kids into elite colleges. College is a business, and with the possible exception of MIT and Caltech, math advancement is so far down the list of what makes good business sense for colleges to admit kids on that it barely registers.

Historically, the students who entered in Geometry had amazing teacher recommendations, test scores, or other outstanding things to compensate for the lower math level. When math level is taken into consideration in the selection process, it's not surprising that the kids who were admitted despite only being in Geometry were amazing in other ways.

This is wholly different from the current process, where math level is not considered at all in the process.

Honestly - are you SURE that math level isn't considered AT ALL in the process or are you just relaying on anecdata from your own school and comparative numbers from previous admissions cycles? I mean, 75% of the admits are still getting in at Alg2 or above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd ask his current math teacher whether they think your child would struggle with the TJ math. TJ math is pretty intense, and it could be quite challenging for a kid who isn't particularly strong at math.

If he's only going to complete Calculus in 12th grade, he might struggle to get admitted for Comp Sci or engineering in college. Both majors tend to have very competitive admissions, and he'll look weak compared to other kids graduating from TJ.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Assuming the comment means "good, selective college", it would be ridiculous at most high schools where calculus in 12th would be considered the most rigorous option, but at TJ it's nowhere close. Selective colleges practicing holistic admissions will compare applicants within the context of their school, which works against students at top schools like TJ

The same logic that affords the idea that "top students" can be identified by math advancement in middle school is used here to claim that colleges only look at math advancement to determine "top students" at TJ. Simply not the case. Indeed, historically TJ students who have entered in Geometry have had some of the strongest college admissions results because there is a tendency for them to contribute to the school community in other meaningful ways that are more important to colleges than what math class you're taking. Additionally, when colleges are looking at rigor of course load, they're looking at a lot more than just math.

Comments like this prove that parents have no idea what actually gets kids into elite colleges. College is a business, and with the possible exception of MIT and Caltech, math advancement is so far down the list of what makes good business sense for colleges to admit kids on that it barely registers.

Historically, the students who entered in Geometry had amazing teacher recommendations, test scores, or other outstanding things to compensate for the lower math level. When math level is taken into consideration in the selection process, it's not surprising that the kids who were admitted despite only being in Geometry were amazing in other ways.

This is wholly different from the current process, where math level is not considered at all in the process.

Honestly - are you SURE that math level isn't considered AT ALL in the process or are you just relaying on anecdata from your own school and comparative numbers from previous admissions cycles? I mean, 75% of the admits are still getting in at Alg2 or above.

This is a good point. Pretty sure that the pool of applicants isn't 75% Alg2 or above, which suggests that math level - while not being the end all be all that some folks want it to be - is certainly a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are conflating two things

1. Old process is flawed

Hence, it seems the assumption seems to be

2. New process is good/better

I would agree the old process is flawed but new process is even more flawed. I do like the idea of some percentage of kids from each HS getting into TJ. That is a good decision. Dropping recommendation letters is the most damaging of all.

We need reform, but in a thoughtful way. Not like the rushed half baked job they did in the middle of a pandemic.

The new process is significantly better for the overall health of the community. It has massively reduced the incentive for participation in TJ-prep programs, and children who are denied admission are faring much better than they were previously because parents are blaming the new process instead of their children. The trauma that kids in my community would suffer in the old days was awful... the new process has saved many abusive parents from themselves in a way.

Um. Go to any prep place. They still have TJ prep, but it is now geared towards essays and writing. It is full of students as early as 5/6th grade. New process just shifted everything over to writing. The prep places list all the TJ admissions still. Old process let in naturally gifted math students and some prepped students. New process mostly results in naturally gifted writers and prepped students + experience factored students. The problem is TJ is supposed to be a STEM school. I mean why didn't they just add experience factors to the old system?

Because SB members are idiots and think Asian students can't write. Guess what, Asian students excel in writing/reading and math so their own prejudice and stupidity resulted in moronic process.

The process is race-blind and a clear improvement over the old one where people were buying the test.

True because it's illegal in the United States to do otherwise. And if there was a shred of proof there would be lawsuits.

It is not illegal. Colleges are in court now because they are not race blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of fighting each other for scraps, y'all should be fighting FCPS to expand advanced/enriched classes to everyone who is qualified and interested.

They have for decades now. FCPS has arguably the best, most robust advanced/enriched education programs of any school district in the US. I don't know if many other districts with an official way of allowing any qualified student even at underperforming title I schools to take algebra in 7th grade

Pretty common. A lot of districts only have one middle school to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are conflating two things

1. Old process is flawed

Hence, it seems the assumption seems to be

2. New process is good/better

I would agree the old process is flawed but new process is even more flawed. I do like the idea of some percentage of kids from each HS getting into TJ. That is a good decision. Dropping recommendation letters is the most damaging of all.

We need reform, but in a thoughtful way. Not like the rushed half baked job they did in the middle of a pandemic.

The new process is significantly better for the overall health of the community. It has massively reduced the incentive for participation in TJ-prep programs, and children who are denied admission are faring much better than they were previously because parents are blaming the new process instead of their children. The trauma that kids in my community would suffer in the old days was awful... the new process has saved many abusive parents from themselves in a way.

Um. Go to any prep place. They still have TJ prep, but it is now geared towards essays and writing. It is full of students as early as 5/6th grade. New process just shifted everything over to writing. The prep places list all the TJ admissions still. Old process let in naturally gifted math students and some prepped students. New process mostly results in naturally gifted writers and prepped students + experience factored students. The problem is TJ is supposed to be a STEM school. I mean why didn't they just add experience factors to the old system?

Because SB members are idiots and think Asian students can't write. Guess what, Asian students excel in writing/reading and math so their own prejudice and stupidity resulted in moronic process.

The process is race-blind and a clear improvement over the old one where people were buying the test.

At most any test-buying was for two years, unless they were bribing the test company directly, in which case it was for three years.
And they are still buying the test.

The evidence is pretty clear that this took place at Curie for only the classes of 2023 and 2024. For each class, approximately 60-65% of the South Asian students in each class were captured by the published list of names that Curie put out on Facebook - as well as approximately 80% of the South Asian students from Loudoun County. This is why the presumption exists - fairly or unfairly - that South Asian students from Loudoun (the math suggests it's far less of an issue in the other jurisdictions) in each of these two classes essentially bought admission to TJ.

Curie would have done better, in spite of whatever custom exists in India, to protect the privacy of these students by not publishing their names.

How is it buying admission, if this test was only used for the first round of admissions? Did they look at this score in the second round as well?
Or is it being claimed that those who missed out on qualifying because of Curie/et al would have taken all these spots?

[Anonymous]

Also, anecdotally, most of the people I know who sent kids to Curie did not get admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are conflating two things

1. Old process is flawed

Hence, it seems the assumption seems to be

2. New process is good/better

I would agree the old process is flawed but new process is even more flawed. I do like the idea of some percentage of kids from each HS getting into TJ. That is a good decision. Dropping recommendation letters is the most damaging of all.

We need reform, but in a thoughtful way. Not like the rushed half baked job they did in the middle of a pandemic.

The new process is significantly better for the overall health of the community. It has massively reduced the incentive for participation in TJ-prep programs, and children who are denied admission are faring much better than they were previously because parents are blaming the new process instead of their children. The trauma that kids in my community would suffer in the old days was awful... the new process has saved many abusive parents from themselves in a way.

Um. Go to any prep place. They still have TJ prep, but it is now geared towards essays and writing. It is full of students as early as 5/6th grade. New process just shifted everything over to writing. The prep places list all the TJ admissions still. Old process let in naturally gifted math students and some prepped students. New process mostly results in naturally gifted writers and prepped students + experience factored students. The problem is TJ is supposed to be a STEM school. I mean why didn't they just add experience factors to the old system?

Because SB members are idiots and think Asian students can't write. Guess what, Asian students excel in writing/reading and math so their own prejudice and stupidity resulted in moronic process.

The process is race-blind and a clear improvement over the old one where people were buying the test.

At most any test-buying was for two years, unless they were bribing the test company directly, in which case it was for three years.
And they are still buying the test.

The evidence is pretty clear that this took place at Curie for only the classes of 2023 and 2024. For each class, approximately 60-65% of the South Asian students in each class were captured by the published list of names that Curie put out on Facebook - as well as approximately 80% of the South Asian students from Loudoun County. This is why the presumption exists - fairly or unfairly - that South Asian students from Loudoun (the math suggests it's far less of an issue in the other jurisdictions) in each of these two classes essentially bought admission to TJ.

Curie would have done better, in spite of whatever custom exists in India, to protect the privacy of these students by not publishing their names.

How is it buying admission, if this test was only used for the first round of admissions? Did they look at this score in the second round as well?
Or is it being claimed that those who missed out on qualifying because of Curie/et al would have taken all these spots?

The median and average scores of admitted students versus semifinalists, which the Admissions Office used to use as part of their "Reality Check" segment of their presentations every year, definitely suggest that the exam scores were used to select which semifinalists would be admitted. And, unsurprisingly, that same data suggested that the biggest separator between those offered and not offered was - you guessed it - the Quant-Q.
,
It is also a fairly obvious consequence of Curie's artificial score inflation that - because semifinalist qualification was based on percentile scores rather than absolute scores - the cutoff score for semifinalist status was artificially high, and there were almost certainly students who would have qualified to be reviewed further who were eliminated from the process because so many parents paid thousands of dollars to inflate their child's scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, anecdotally, most of the people I know who sent kids to Curie did not get admitted.

Maybe not nowadays. They don't have access to a secured exam anymore, so it would follow that they would be less successful in getting kids into TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, anecdotally, most of the people I know who sent kids to Curie did not get admitted.

Maybe not nowadays. They don't have access to a secured exam anymore, so it would follow that they would be less successful in getting kids into TJ.

This was true under the old system as well. You see the names they put in the ad, but not the names left out of the ad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are conflating two things

1. Old process is flawed

Hence, it seems the assumption seems to be

2. New process is good/better

I would agree the old process is flawed but new process is even more flawed. I do like the idea of some percentage of kids from each HS getting into TJ. That is a good decision. Dropping recommendation letters is the most damaging of all.

We need reform, but in a thoughtful way. Not like the rushed half baked job they did in the middle of a pandemic.

The new process is significantly better for the overall health of the community. It has massively reduced the incentive for participation in TJ-prep programs, and children who are denied admission are faring much better than they were previously because parents are blaming the new process instead of their children. The trauma that kids in my community would suffer in the old days was awful... the new process has saved many abusive parents from themselves in a way.

Um. Go to any prep place. They still have TJ prep, but it is now geared towards essays and writing. It is full of students as early as 5/6th grade. New process just shifted everything over to writing. The prep places list all the TJ admissions still. Old process let in naturally gifted math students and some prepped students. New process mostly results in naturally gifted writers and prepped students + experience factored students. The problem is TJ is supposed to be a STEM school. I mean why didn't they just add experience factors to the old system?

Because SB members are idiots and think Asian students can't write. Guess what, Asian students excel in writing/reading and math so their own prejudice and stupidity resulted in moronic process.

The process is race-blind and a clear improvement over the old one where people were buying the test.

At most any test-buying was for two years, unless they were bribing the test company directly, in which case it was for three years.
And they are still buying the test.

The evidence is pretty clear that this took place at Curie for only the classes of 2023 and 2024. For each class, approximately 60-65% of the South Asian students in each class were captured by the published list of names that Curie put out on Facebook - as well as approximately 80% of the South Asian students from Loudoun County. This is why the presumption exists - fairly or unfairly - that South Asian students from Loudoun (the math suggests it's far less of an issue in the other jurisdictions) in each of these two classes essentially bought admission to TJ.

Curie would have done better, in spite of whatever custom exists in India, to protect the privacy of these students by not publishing their names.

How is it buying admission, if this test was only used for the first round of admissions? Did they look at this score in the second round as well?
Or is it being claimed that those who missed out on qualifying because of Curie/et al would have taken all these spots?

The median and average scores of admitted students versus semifinalists, which the Admissions Office used to use as part of their "Reality Check" segment of their presentations every year, definitely suggest that the exam scores were used to select which semifinalists would be admitted. And, unsurprisingly, that same data suggested that the biggest separator between those offered and not offered was - you guessed it - the Quant-Q.
,
It is also a fairly obvious consequence of Curie's artificial score inflation that - because semifinalist qualification was based on percentile scores rather than absolute scores - the cutoff score for semifinalist status was artificially high, and there were almost certainly students who would have qualified to be reviewed further who were eliminated from the process because so many parents paid thousands of dollars to inflate their child's scores.

It could just be the high score on the Quant Q is highly correlated with high scores on other parts of the application. Even with Curie, it is not just a matter of giving people look at the questions, they would be preparing kids for the rest of the application as well.