How do you find God if you don't believe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God has revealed himself to us in the glory of creation, in the perfection of the written word, and in the personal experience of all who seek him.

Yes, agreed. For those who have eyes to see, God has made himself abundantly clear. For those who refuse to see, nothing can "prove" God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

You didn’t answer the question. And you never do. Wonder why that is?

Science doesn't have the processes to prove or disprove the existence of God. Science studies and attempts to explain only the natural world.

Scientists don't try to prove or disprove God's existence because they know there isn't an experiment that can ever detect God. And if you believe in God, it doesn't matter what scientists discover about the Universe.

Why would belief in God require that science give a specific answer to this question, that we don’t know the answer to, and probably will never know?

Science is an amazing, wonderful undertaking: it teaches us about life, the world and the universe. But it has not revealed to us why the universe came into existence nor what preceded its birth in the Big Bang. Biological evolution has not brought us the slightest understanding of how the first living organisms emerged from inanimate matter on this planet and how the advanced eukaryotic cells—the highly structured building blocks of advanced life forms—ever emerged from simpler organisms. Neither does it explain one of the greatest mysteries of science: how did consciousness arise in living things? Where do symbolic thinking and self-awareness come from? What is it that allows humans to understand the mysteries of biology, physics, mathematics, engineering and medicine? And what enables us to create great works of art, music, architecture and literature? Science is nowhere near to explaining these deep mysteries.

Science does Not yet know why the universe came into existence - but it's working on it. Pp is really into "God of the Gaps" stuff.

This goes to the fundamental misunderstanding of God. Science cannot "find" or "prove" God because science is about detecting and understanding this world. God is outside of this world (and creator of this world). The creator cannot be proved and isolated by tools of his creation. However, you can look at the creation and deduce certain characteristics about its creator. For example, the grandness and exuberance of the universe, the beauty of art/music/earth, the logic and beauty of mathematics, the love between people. Look deep into anything and I believe you will find proof of God. To believe that all these things are random is a greater leap of faith imo. Look deep into the human soul and its battle with itself and its complexity and nothing explains it adequately or satisfyingly except Christianity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God has revealed himself to us in the glory of creation, in the perfection of the written word, and in the personal experience of all who seek him.

Yes, agreed. For those who have eyes to see, God has made himself abundantly clear. For those who refuse to see, nothing can "prove" God.

How is that any different than if he didn’t exist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God has revealed himself to us in the glory of creation, in the perfection of the written word, and in the personal experience of all who seek him.

Yes, agreed. For those who have eyes to see, God has made himself abundantly clear. For those who refuse to see, nothing can "prove" God.

How is that any different than if he didn’t exist?

No different - just a religious viewpoint that makes non-believers seem narrow-minded and believers seem superior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

Do you believe your moral compass is objectively true? If so, where does it come from? If not, and everyone is free to have their own moral compass, then there is no such thing as a moral compass, just what each of us desires and doing what makes us feel good.

Point is, objective truth only makes sense in context of the existence of something objectively true and unchanging, which is God. I agree that you don't need to believe in God to have a moral compass, but that moral compass still comes from God, regardless of whether you acknowledge its source.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God has revealed himself to us in the glory of creation, in the perfection of the written word, and in the personal experience of all who seek him.

Yes, agreed. For those who have eyes to see, God has made himself abundantly clear. For those who refuse to see, nothing can "prove" God.

How is that any different than if he didn’t exist?

Not sure I understand the question.

I recommend anyone who wants to understand what Christians mean when they say God to watch this video. Will also partly explain how God has made himself abundantly clear (in other words, more rational to believe in the existence of God than not).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zMf_8hkCdc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?



PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God has revealed himself to us in the glory of creation, in the perfection of the written word, and in the personal experience of all who seek him.

Yes, agreed. For those who have eyes to see, God has made himself abundantly clear. For those who refuse to see, nothing can "prove" God.

How is that any different than if he didn’t exist?

The difference is that if he did not exist then there will be no people who felt him, who heard him, who've seen him, who talked to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

[Anonymous]

One more link because I am passionate about this topic and can't help myself. In this video, Bishop Barron lays out the 3 major arguments for the existence of God: argument from desire, argument from science, and argument from contingency. Great short primer for anyone interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP2rLgrBtTI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

Once I was convinced there is a God, i started exploring different theistic religions. At first, i attended a Universalist Unitarian church because that was all I could handle. But then as I kept reading, that church was no longer enough (they tend to stay very surfacy about loving everyone and doing good but shies away from deeper questions). I read up on Islam but its view of God was not "that which nothing greater can be thought" imo, so I rejected that. I was really hung up on the idea of Jesus, so it took me a while to come to terms with Christianity as a possibility, but once I did, i started attending protestant churches simply out of accessibility. I found one I really liked (very intellectual approach to the Bible), but some reason, I just kept feeling like I had to keep searching. One day I walked into a Catholic Mass and while I was so confused by all the standing, kneeling, recitations, I felt a very deep sense of peace. Then I started researching Catholicism and everything I read just clicked and felt right (the theology not necessarily all the social teachings, which took more time). I remember reading the Catechism, which most people would probably find a dry read, and found it just so engaging haha!

I appreciate the depth of Catholicism, its comfort with and embrace of ambiguity and mystery. I think on the logic side, I find Protestantism to be unsustainable. In my exploration of protestant churches, some churches were so different from each other as to be almost separate religions. That surely cannot be how God intends for his church to be, so it was more easy for me to believe that Matthew 16:18 meant that God established one church and will stand by her to the end. Either that or we are all screwed imho, because otherwise we are just following our own egos by establishing 30,000 different churches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God has revealed himself to us in the glory of creation, in the perfection of the written word, and in the personal experience of all who seek him.

Yes, agreed. For those who have eyes to see, God has made himself abundantly clear. For those who refuse to see, nothing can "prove" God.

How is that any different than if he didn’t exist?

The difference is that if he did not exist then there will be no people who felt him, who heard him, who've seen him, who talked to him.

What if they are mistaken and they just think they did? How can you tell the difference between the two if there’s no empirical evidence?