Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

I really think if people were willing to be honest and vocal, we could have a chance at positive change.
For some reason in DC it’s too high of a bar! There are still people in the Spring Valley refusing to have their lots addressed. If you ignore it, it’s not there, right? And you can punk the next buyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other morning there was a steady stream of air traffic between 5 and 6 am (near Glen Echo). Usually it starts at 6am and is steady for 30-40 minutes. I was surprised it started at 5.

What’s steady in your experience? Is it 1-2 per minute? I looked up the hourly traffic update and it strikes me as undercounting the noise (the dB it shows it what you’re supposed to be hearing, but when I measure it’s always +10-20 dB from that), but I don’t know if it also somehow undercounts the traffic? According to the DCA monthly plane counts there are hundreds and hundreds of passenger and non passenger flights daily but the map makes it look very steady — relentless — but not as busy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people live right near airports, under flight paths, and expect zero airport noise?

Have people become this lazy?

The planes flew over the Potomac River and more if Virginia land until 2014.

Then two things happened: NextGen gPs autopilot landing was installed all over the country for billions of $. And simultaneous with that, McLean VA community and local politicians were quick and smart enough to lobby DCA FAA to not have any flight paths over them and mainly over MoCo and NW DC.

This took the 1000s of landings and concentrated them all on the same path for the last 5 mins if their southbound approach.

Many cities with rivers are angry. There are a few solutions: create a few more GPS node flight paths so certain neighborhoods aren’t always harassed by Josie and pollution from 6am until midnight, plus the 2-4am FedEx landings. Or, go back to the Flying over the River approaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other morning there was a steady stream of air traffic between 5 and 6 am (near Glen Echo). Usually it starts at 6am and is steady for 30-40 minutes. I was surprised it started at 5.

They can start at any time. The prevailing winds usually dictate which way the planes take off. So some days morning take offs are up river and other days it is down river. It’s a 24 hour 7 days a week airport. An operational curfew has never existed at Reagan National (DCA). In 1981, specific nighttime noise limits established for Reagan National were imposed between 10 p.m. and 6:59 a.m. These are never enforced. Earliest flights from National are listed as 5:30am but if they leave earlier.

As for noise problems. It depends on your location, if it is cloudy or clear, if the tree have leaves, what season it is, how your house is positioned, are your windows open, etc. One neighbor has row-house on the corner. The house gets noise from the plane as it passes and reflected sound off the other houses. He showed it to me one time. One plane sounds like two planes coming in opposite directions!

If you are looking to buy a house and airport noise is a concern get up early and park your car in front of the house at like 5 am. Roll down your windows and wait till 6 am. Do it on the weekdays and weekends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think if people were willing to be honest and vocal, we could have a chance at positive change.
For some reason in DC it’s too high of a bar! There are still people in the Spring Valley refusing to have their lots addressed. If you ignore it, it’s not there, right? And you can punk the next buyer.

Look DC does not have congressional representation. The planes have to fly over someone house and DC will cause the airport authority the least problems.

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that the people most vocal about the noise issue are those who experienced the change from very little noise to lots of noise in 2015. Some (or the same poster several times) admitted that they moved shortly after this happened. However, things have changed since, also because one of the navigation point used was moved into Virginia, relieving some of the issue for DC and making it worse for VA. You definitely still hear the planes but I do not find it quite as dramatic anymore. I would agree with posters suggesting that potential buyers spend a few hours on different days and times of the day and evaluate for themselves whether the amount of noise is bearable for them.

[Anonymous]

So what is the latest on the efforts to lessen some of the impacts of NextGe on these areas? I can’t find any current information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that the people most vocal about the noise issue are those who experienced the change from very little noise to lots of noise in 2015. Some (or the same poster several times) admitted that they moved shortly after this happened. However, things have changed since, also because one of the navigation point used was moved into Virginia, relieving some of the issue for DC and making it worse for VA. You definitely still hear the planes but I do not find it quite as dramatic anymore. I would agree with posters suggesting that potential buyers spend a few hours on different days and times of the day and evaluate for themselves whether the amount of noise is bearable for them.

According to the data, it has gotten considerably worse. The increase in traffic alone would have obviated any such moves (but please provide a source, because I can’t find it).

[Anonymous]

It’s apparently gotten even worse since 2020 (but it wasn’t obvious in the pandemic). To be honest, I thought pre-2015 was already quite bad. Today is just… can’t believe my eyes

[Anonymous]

I think the PP is referring to the action which now even further protects the areas like around and West of the Observatory Circle.

“In late January 2020, the Federal Aviation Administration, at the request of the U.S. Secret Service, shifted the departure route of airplanes from National Airport from the middle of the Potomac River to an area over Virginia.”

BUT the effect of that is a net negative for the DC flight path:

“"In fact, the procedure in question had been previously proposed and rejected by the community because it concentrated air traffic over neighborhood and school in Maryland, Virginia, and DC,"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what is the latest on the efforts to lessen some of the impacts of NextGe on these areas? I can’t find any current information.

https://www.flyreagan.com/about-airport/aircraft-noise-information/dca-reagan-national-community-working-group

Looks like they might move some waypoints a tiny bit to the west.

[Anonymous]

It will take a year to see the effects, if any, is what we were told.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the PP is referring to the action which now even further protects the areas like around and West of the Observatory Circle.

“In late January 2020, the Federal Aviation Administration, at the request of the U.S. Secret Service, shifted the departure route of airplanes from National Airport from the middle of the Potomac River to an area over Virginia.”

BUT the effect of that is a net negative for the DC flight path:

“"In fact, the procedure in question had been previously proposed and rejected by the community because it concentrated air traffic over neighborhood and school in Maryland, Virginia, and DC,"

Yes, that is what I referred to. I live in DC very close to the river and it is definitely way better now than it was pre-pandemic. I have been here since 2018 so can’t compare to what it was like before 2015.

[Anonymous]

I really think it was a mere fraction before 2015 of what is today. Post-pandemic experience of the flight path in the Palisades/Foxhall is much much much worse: relentless, loud (especially the whistle of the pitch of I guess take offs in the morning), constant and so very low overhead. And much father away from the river than I ever anticipated, like the upper Arizona, UT, CBR, Foxhall all seemed really bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think it was a mere fraction before 2015 of what is today. Post-pandemic experience of the flight path in the Palisades/Foxhall is much much much worse: relentless, loud (especially the whistle of the pitch of I guess take offs in the morning), constant and so very low overhead. And much father away from the river than I ever anticipated, like the upper Arizona, UT, CBR, Foxhall all seemed really bad.

Yes pre-2015 was definitely better, but I think the discussion is about whether things are getting worse relative to right before the pandemic. Where I am in DC things definitely improved and I suspect it is because more flights are now flying closer to or over Virginia.