Should so called “thanksgiving” be a national day of mourning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indigenous groups and land-back advocates believe so, and they will gather at the rock called Plymouth to demonstrate.

Should we at least change the name?

I celebrate it as a day of giving thanks for what I have, and pilgrims and their ruthlessness are not celebrated. Same on what used to be called Columbus day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

Yes, you certainly are responsible, if you are white.

You benefit from unearned white privilege. And even if you don’t believe you are a racist, you participate and perpetuate systemic white racism by being here.

Nope.

We're tired of this nonsense. It doesn't make sense and we're moving on.

[Anonymous]

I’m a liberal and find this exhausting. I think many native Americans do too. If you polled the population of the tobono reservation, for instance, I bet they couldn’t care less about Plymouth Rock and this protest. They have other priorities.

Even as an Italian American I was 100% in favor of jettisoning Columbus Day. Columbus was a huge a—hole and stood for nothing good. And had no connection to the US. I think indigenous people say is a good idea. Replacing thanksgiving with a similar day seems pointless. But maybe there should be a day to celebrate times when people helped and cooperated with people of different ethnic backgrounds (which is sort of the thanksgiving origin story)? We definitely need more reflection and thought on that in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

Yes, you certainly are responsible, if you are white.

You benefit from unearned white privilege. And even if you don’t believe you are a racist, you participate and perpetuate systemic white racism by being here.

Nope.

We're tired of this nonsense. It doesn't make sense and we're moving on.

Indifference and ignorance. The American way. 🦃

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indigenous groups and land-back advocates believe so, and they will gather at the rock called Plymouth to demonstrate.

Should we at least change the name?

Just when I think we’ve reached peak stupid as a society I encounter somebody like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indigenous groups and land-back advocates believe so, and they will gather at the rock called Plymouth to demonstrate.

Should we at least change the name?

There is nothing stopping you from mourning or changing the name. Leave the rest of us alone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like it to be 2 days too. Maybe Thanksgiving Thursday stays, and day after, Friday, is a Native American day of remembrance.

I’d like this. I’d like it even more if we could do celebrate with something other than a shopping frenzy.

Why do you hate America

Why does “America” hate me? Do you really want to talk about centuries of systemic racism when you could be brining your Butterball?

Tell me you know nothing about cooking without telling me you know nothing about cooking.

NP. Yes, but "brining your Butterball" is so satisfyingly alliterative. It also sounds like it could be something dirty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. Screw off. We don’t care about your pet political causes and the gaping hole in your personality that causes you to promote this kind of stuff. Don’t care about about the claims and fairy wishes of indigenous groups or “land-back advocates”. We tolerate some of this crap in the name of good manners and being charitable. But there’s a limit.

It is a glorious day of national Thanksgiving. I am very grateful that European religious settlers founded the greatest civilization on earth, committed by its founding documents to ideals that were never, not once, within the founding spirit of any prior society.

And not for nothing, but if the North American indigenous peoples had had the ability to cross the Atlantic and the firepower, once there, to seize land and conform the local peoples to their customs, they would have done so without question. Many were very warlike and inclined toward expansion and capture on the continent. (As were most cultures of the era.) We just happen to be much more advanced and way better at war.

To the victor belongs the spoils.

+1000

Too busy and tired to write a long comment now, so thank you to this PP, who well expresses what most of us think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

It’s not about personal guilt or responsibility. It’s doing my what we can to acknowledge the massive wrongs committed by our government and to fix what we can. Being part of this country’s future means dealing with this country’s past.

Take it up with the government.

What does this have to do with Thanksgiving?

Americans manufactured Thanksgiving from a fable about pilgrims and Indians.

And it has evolved. You can stay looking in the rearview mirror but others look to the future.

Most Americans today were taught the BS pilgrim story. It hasn’t evolved yet.

Part of looking at the future includes fixing the wrongs of the past. People are still suffering today because of the actions of the US government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

It’s not about personal guilt or responsibility. It’s doing my what we can to acknowledge the massive wrongs committed by our government and to fix what we can. Being part of this country’s future means dealing with this country’s past.

Take it up with the government.

What does this have to do with Thanksgiving?

Americans manufactured Thanksgiving from a fable about pilgrims and Indians.

And it has evolved. You can stay looking in the rearview mirror but others look to the future.

Most Americans today were taught the BS pilgrim story. It hasn’t evolved yet.

Part of looking at the future includes fixing the wrongs of the past. People are still suffering today because of the actions of the US government.

Take it up with the government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

Yes, you certainly are responsible, if you are white.

You benefit from unearned white privilege. And even if you don’t believe you are a racist, you participate and perpetuate systemic white racism by being here.

So, all white people in America are by your definition racist. Hmm. That sounds pretty…racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

Yes, you certainly are responsible, if you are white.

You benefit from unearned white privilege. And even if you don’t believe you are a racist, you participate and perpetuate systemic white racism by being here.

Okay, I’ll go back to Europe where my ancestors are from. Oh wait, those countries won’t let me immigrate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot fault the Europeans, who at the time did not understand the germ nature of disease, for the killing of natives who had no immunity to European diseases. The stories of Europeans deliberately bringing smallpox to natives were true, but they were the exception not the rule. In the 14th Century Europeans nearly all went extinct during the Black Death--who you gonna blame for that?

We can certainly fault them for violence and oppression.

Who cares? Everyone who did whatever bad things you want to list is long dead.

My family came to this continent in 1981. I don't have any responsibility or guilt for something that was done by people centuries ago.

One of the great things about the US is that you're not held guilty for the sins of your ancestors.

Are you a citizen? Then you are a member of the government that has inherited the treaties with the tribes that are being violated today. Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. Screw off. We don’t care about your pet political causes and the gaping hole in your personality that causes you to promote this kind of stuff. Don’t care about about the claims and fairy wishes of indigenous groups or “land-back advocates”. We tolerate some of this crap in the name of good manners and being charitable. But there’s a limit.

It is a glorious day of national Thanksgiving. I am very grateful that European religious settlers founded the greatest civilization on earth, committed by its founding documents to ideals that were never, not once, within the founding spirit of any prior society.

And not for nothing, but if the North American indigenous peoples had had the ability to cross the Atlantic and the firepower, once there, to seize land and conform the local peoples to their customs, they would have done so without question. Many were very warlike and inclined toward expansion and capture on the continent. (As were most cultures of the era.) We just happen to be much more advanced and way better at war.

To the victor belongs the spoils.

That's just straight up white supremacy. These were populated continents and there is no reason why the people who were here did not have just as much right to self-determination and that the "ideals" under which they formed their societies did not have just as much value as European values. (Which, by the way, included the importation of slaves starting in 1619.)

There's a very good reason...

I'm lost. What's the reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. Screw off. We don’t care about your pet political causes and the gaping hole in your personality that causes you to promote this kind of stuff. Don’t care about about the claims and fairy wishes of indigenous groups or “land-back advocates”. We tolerate some of this crap in the name of good manners and being charitable. But there’s a limit.

It is a glorious day of national Thanksgiving. I am very grateful that European religious settlers founded the greatest civilization on earth, committed by its founding documents to ideals that were never, not once, within the founding spirit of any prior society.

And not for nothing, but if the North American indigenous peoples had had the ability to cross the Atlantic and the firepower, once there, to seize land and conform the local peoples to their customs, they would have done so without question. Many were very warlike and inclined toward expansion and capture on the continent. (As were most cultures of the era.) We just happen to be much more advanced and way better at war.

To the victor belongs the spoils.

What do you mean, "we?" You weren't there. I very much doubt that you are good at war.

“We” are the Roman empire. Rome expanded into Pagan Europe and never stopped. Now the Roman imperial culture has conquered the world. All ofbus on DCUM are a part of that legacy like it or not.

We are not the Roman Empire. Good lord.

Wow what a detailed rebuttal. That settles it then… Or we could simply learn about history:

Our government is literally inspired by ancient Roman politics. Christianity, the dominant religion of modern Europe was imposed on the native tribes of the north by the Romans. Kings and popes derived their authority throughout the centuries by tying their lineage to the Roman Empire.

“The Holy Roman Emperor title provided the highest prestige among medieval Roman Catholic monarchs, because the empire was considered by the Roman Catholic Church to be the only successor of the Roman Empire during the Middle Ages and the early modern period. Thus, in theory and diplomacy, the emperors were considered primus inter pares, regarded as first among equals among other Roman Catholic monarchs across Europe.”

How can an educated DC resident not know this very basic history of our own society?