Inside the great teacher resignation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

How interesting that you chose to comment on the media outlets that wrote the articles but not the substance of those articles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

How interesting that you chose to comment on the media outlets that wrote the articles but not the substance of those articles.

Different poster here.

I don’t understand why this thread became an argument about Covid closures. We were facing a teacher shortage before Covid. I suspect if you ask teachers currently leaving the profession, most aren’t going to say Covid is the reason. They are leaving because of lack of respect, lack of autonomy, low pay for the hours required, etc.

I do think this argument highlights at least one reason teachers are leaving: being blamed for things out of their control. As much as some people would like to THINK the unions listen to teachers, that’s not actually the case. My former union regularly made decisions without consulting its members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

How interesting that you chose to comment on the media outlets that wrote the articles but not the substance of those articles.

Different poster here.

I don’t understand why this thread became an argument about Covid closures. We were facing a teacher shortage before Covid. I suspect if you ask teachers currently leaving the profession, most aren’t going to say Covid is the reason. They are leaving because of lack of respect, lack of autonomy, low pay for the hours required, etc.

I do think this argument highlights at least one reason teachers are leaving: being blamed for things out of their control. As much as some people would like to THINK the unions listen to teachers, that’s not actually the case. My former union regularly made decisions without consulting its members.

Funny- I always assumed teachers voted for their union reps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

How interesting that you chose to comment on the media outlets that wrote the articles but not the substance of those articles.

Different poster here.

I don’t understand why this thread became an argument about Covid closures. We were facing a teacher shortage before Covid. I suspect if you ask teachers currently leaving the profession, most aren’t going to say Covid is the reason. They are leaving because of lack of respect, lack of autonomy, low pay for the hours required, etc.

I do think this argument highlights at least one reason teachers are leaving: being blamed for things out of their control. As much as some people would like to THINK the unions listen to teachers, that’s not actually the case. My former union regularly made decisions without consulting its members.

I don't understand how this happens, though. I've belonged to a union and when a sizable contingent of the union was unhappy with leadership, it was discussed openly and people lost re-election and were replaced. On one occasion when union leadership was advocating against the majority interests of union members, we leaked the discontent to the press in order to stop that leader from doing so, and she was ousted shortly thereafter.

If a union is not representing the interests of its workers, it's failed. If I were in that situation I'd seek to move to another district with more responsive union leadership, or to a charter that ideally would have its own union (some are unionized). I would not get angry at constituents who are unhappy with the union's behavior if I, too, am unhappy with the union's behavior. I'd link arms with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

How interesting that you chose to comment on the media outlets that wrote the articles but not the substance of those articles.

Different poster here.

I don’t understand why this thread became an argument about Covid closures. We were facing a teacher shortage before Covid. I suspect if you ask teachers currently leaving the profession, most aren’t going to say Covid is the reason. They are leaving because of lack of respect, lack of autonomy, low pay for the hours required, etc.

I do think this argument highlights at least one reason teachers are leaving: being blamed for things out of their control. As much as some people would like to THINK the unions listen to teachers, that’s not actually the case. My former union regularly made decisions without consulting its members.

I don't understand how this happens, though. I've belonged to a union and when a sizable contingent of the union was unhappy with leadership, it was discussed openly and people lost re-election and were replaced. On one occasion when union leadership was advocating against the majority interests of union members, we leaked the discontent to the press in order to stop that leader from doing so, and she was ousted shortly thereafter.

If a union is not representing the interests of its workers, it's failed. If I were in that situation I'd seek to move to another district with more responsive union leadership, or to a charter that ideally would have its own union (some are unionized). I would not get angry at constituents who are unhappy with the union's behavior if I, too, am unhappy with the union's behavior. I'd link arms with them.

But people placing the blame on the teachers, not the union. We are not necessarily one and the same. And to say it’s so easy to vote out people you don’t like, have you ever voted for someone who lost an election?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

How interesting that you chose to comment on the media outlets that wrote the articles but not the substance of those articles.

Different poster here.

I don’t understand why this thread became an argument about Covid closures. We were facing a teacher shortage before Covid. I suspect if you ask teachers currently leaving the profession, most aren’t going to say Covid is the reason. They are leaving because of lack of respect, lack of autonomy, low pay for the hours required, etc.

I do think this argument highlights at least one reason teachers are leaving: being blamed for things out of their control. As much as some people would like to THINK the unions listen to teachers, that’s not actually the case. My former union regularly made decisions without consulting its members.

I don't understand how this happens, though. I've belonged to a union and when a sizable contingent of the union was unhappy with leadership, it was discussed openly and people lost re-election and were replaced. On one occasion when union leadership was advocating against the majority interests of union members, we leaked the discontent to the press in order to stop that leader from doing so, and she was ousted shortly thereafter.

If a union is not representing the interests of its workers, it's failed. If I were in that situation I'd seek to move to another district with more responsive union leadership, or to a charter that ideally would have its own union (some are unionized). I would not get angry at constituents who are unhappy with the union's behavior if I, too, am unhappy with the union's behavior. I'd link arms with them.

And now we are back to the topic of this thread. I’m the PP. Yes, I did leave. The union was one of the myriad of reasons I left public. I now work in a private school with a faculty board that is much more effective, logical, and reasonable than the public union I dealt with before.

Your suggestion, which seems like a common one on DCUM, is that teachers should leave. We are. That’s the point of this thread. As for linking arms, I invite you to link arms with teachers who are working HARD for your students. They didn’t create this mess. They merely work in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hawley is a grade a POS
He lives in VA why is he a Senator from MO.

His wife is worse she is running around trying to kill all women's rights. Watch her she's dangerous.

Virgina is screwed on the school issue.

Where's the ALL CAPS?

[Anonymous]

My district was largely open through covid. Teachers are leaving in high numbers. The joys are no longer worth the pain and heartache. I see experienced teachers retiring early, mid-career teachers going to educational companies as trainers, and new teachers leaving the profession completely.

My job used to be about teaching kids. Now it is largely about paperwork, data collection, meetings about data, and most of all, behavior management. That last one is what I think is driving out the most teachers. On my hallway multiple teachers have been hit and cussed at by their elementary school students.

[Anonymous]

Thank Obama-era discipline reform e.g. the proportionality doctrine

Thank social media's shortening of attention spans

Thank indifferent parents who even block the school's # when APs are trying to reach a parent or guardian

Thank lack of support from administration

Several factors contributing to decline of civility in schools

[Anonymous]

At our school, 1/3 of the teachers were out last week with either Covid or Influenza A or B.

Think about that. 1/3 of the teachers tested positive for Covid or Influenza A or B. Yet the schools are still open. We didn't have enough subs or monitors or administrators so we split classes.

Instead of 28 or 29 kids crammed into our rooms, we had 35-40. There was no learning happening in that environment. We did crowd control and behavior management to the best of our abilities for 8 hours a day, 5 days last week.

At least this week is shorter. I am pretty sure the rest of us who didn't have Covid or Influenza last week will this week.

And then people wonder why teachers are resigning.

[Anonymous]

After I figured out parents didn't care whether I lived or died or developed long Covid, I decided my talents could best be used elsewhere for more money.

Teaching is now a young healthy person's job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of temper tantrums, how does being so angry and irate at teachers 2 years later help your child learn this year?

Is your vitriol helping children get help or is it making the situation worse?

Or are only teachers expected to put your child above their family/yourself?

Is that how you’d characterize the situation of the tens of millions of people that worked through the pandemic in public-facing and/or crowded conditions? Including the people that made sure you had food, utilities, medical services/supplies, public safety services, and countless other essential (and nonessential) goods and services?

No it is how I characterize this thread and people who are still rehashing this argument after 2 years.

There are different issues now. Are they related? Sure
If you want to help and not just spew anger then help. If not your anger is just anger and only you can change that.

Schools and teachers can help by acknowledging their past mistakes and promising to act differently in the future.

Ok we are so very very sorry. The pandemic was mishandled by school boards, the president who threw out the CDC pandemic playbook, superintendents and the NIH. Teachers taught these people and are therefore responsible for their actions. It is true, even teachers themselves made errors of judgement and wanted to work from home. In the next global emergency we will act differently. This new, improved and better plan will be based upon the needs of the pandemic of 2020, not whatever future situation the world will be facing.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. It’s a problem that teachers haven’t acknowledged the harm they did to kids through their actions. It’s not even clear many of them fully understand that harm or the role they played.

You are not getting apologies. You are not getting reparations. You are not getting future promises.

GROW UP AND MOVE ON. Or keep holding your breath and impotently stamping your feet like a toddler. Your choice.

Ok. Then watch public support for public schools and teachers continue to be in the gutter.

You are acting like this is a threat to teachers. Who are you honestly hurting but kids?

It is like in a divorce. If the parents are fighting over kids, custody or whatever in the end the KIDS are the ones who pay the price.

The only thing you are really doing is hurting kids. Especially those who already start with fewer advantages.

The teachers can and will find other work. The kids only get one shot at this and 2 years are already gone. You can take shots and get mad and kick and cry, or you can say “That sucked, but let’s get back to work. We have even more to do. How can I help?”

No, I was trying to say public schools are threatened. If you care about protecting public schools then you should be looking for a path that not only meets the needs of teachers, but also students and their families. Otherwise more and more of those families are going to turn to private schools, which we're already seeing happening. That will only increase political support for private school vouchers. And yes, it's going to be the disadvantaged kids that lose out, not really the DCUM crowd.

DCUM kids are generally in the top 5% of the nation economically. Most people who have left for private school already have. It's not just disadvantaged kids who will and are suffering, it's middle income and even upper middle income kids are too or at the very least, won't be able to afford even the cheapest of private schools.

Exactly. And those middle-income families rely on schools. That doesn't make them bad parents. The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families.

What? That is the weirdest take on this I have ever seen. Are you suggesting schools closed just to “attack” families? Attack means there was malicious intent. Wow. That is NUTS!

Read it again. The comments made by the teachers unions, and some teachers themselves, included attacks on working parents. There have been examples in this thread, although I tend to think they’re from SAHMs rather than teachers.

Ok clearly I have a comprehension fail. The PP said that the 18 month school closure was an attack on families. They in my mind were NOT talking about this thread. Saying the school closures were premeditated and an attack on families by teachers or unions is t crazy. Please reinterpret that post for me.

Read it again: "The narrative that "school isn't child care" and that parents should have had backup plans for an 18-month school closure was a ridiculous attack on working families."

The narrative used by teachers' unions and their supporters in their comments justifying the continued closures was the attack, not the closures themselves.

The "narrative" was not a narrative. For the 20-21 school year the CDC was still saying 6 feet of distance in public schools. I believe the FCPS superintendent went on CNN that spring to publicly say that the CDC needed to change the policy in order to let kids in school full time. Here is a quote from Feb 2021:

"Fairfax County Public Schools Superintendent Scott Brabrand says that is the most this large suburban Washington, DC, school district can do while still following US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for safe school re-opening. The county is currently in the red zone."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/fairfax-county-virginia-schools-reopen-covid/index.html

There physically wasn't enough space to social distance with all children attending school.

Now if you want to see that as an attack, go ahead.

The CDC guidelines that were the result of closed-door meetings with teachers unions? Yes, I remember those.

Link please? Funny that doctors offices did this too. In fact many still are AND are requiring masks.

Never mind I found it. In the New York post and Fox News and other conservative outlets.

Enjoy your vouchers and private schools!

Are you suggesting that you think the New York Post and Fox News fabricated the emails between the unions and the CDC leading up to the guidance?

Funny that you're suggesting that other news media didn't report on that. I'm pretty sure they did, but it does suggest some level of "filtering" either by the news media you read and/or by the news articles you choose to read.

Have a great day!

How interesting that you chose to comment on the media outlets that wrote the articles but not the substance of those articles.

Different poster here.

I don’t understand why this thread became an argument about Covid closures. We were facing a teacher shortage before Covid. I suspect if you ask teachers currently leaving the profession, most aren’t going to say Covid is the reason. They are leaving because of lack of respect, lack of autonomy, low pay for the hours required, etc.

I do think this argument highlights at least one reason teachers are leaving: being blamed for things out of their control. As much as some people would like to THINK the unions listen to teachers, that’s not actually the case. My former union regularly made decisions without consulting its members.

Exactly but I tired of people who treat teachers badly complaining about the shortage. If it’s an easy job then do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank Obama-era discipline reform e.g. the proportionality doctrine

Thank social media's shortening of attention spans

Thank indifferent parents who even block the school's # when APs are trying to reach a parent or guardian

Thank lack of support from administration

Several factors contributing to decline of civility in schools

The schools are like this due to Biden and his leadership or lack there of. He failed to put in even the most basic safety precautions, standards and more.

Social media is not the issue. It’s the new teaching styles, lack of books, lack of homework, lack of structure, no consequences, etc and some of that is also lack of parenting.