Science says: never get rid of AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that voice of reason

There is 0 reason for any kid/ family to be doing things at home to accelerate.

If the kid is extremely smart they should just skip a grade. The obsession of thinking so many kids are bored and need more challenging content is ridiculous

In the real world no one cares when you took algebra.

I am not going to ask the school to skip my kid a grade when he is the youngest kid in his class. Social skills and socialization is pretty important. I can more easily meet his academic needs with enrichment then I can deal with his social needs by having him in a higher level grade.

i don’t care when he takes algebra, if I did I would have him skip grades.

Yeah. Skipping a grade is stupid.

Every person I know who did it- regrets it. Not because they weren’t smart enough. But because puberty sucks. And if you’re 12 when everyone else is 13 or 14- it’s horrible. And that’s not counting the girls I knew who were basically having sex at 14 because they were juniors and had skipped a grade and were already for young for their grade.

AAP is miles better than grade skipping grades.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Smart people tend to earn more money and intelligence is hereditary. Obviously anti-AAP folks are too dumb to understand correlated omitted variables. lol

My kid is in AAP. My husband and I have graduate degrees. We are not dumb. So I’m not AAP hater. But the system is flawed. Kids with high scores get rejected. Kids whose parents have resources and know the system get in on appeal. And it’s an accelerated program Vs a gifted program. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see it’s flawed. The people who get very defensive about any criticism of it to the point that they have to call people dumb shouldn’t be boasting about their intelligence.

I guess what frosts me is this assertion that someone's kid is more deserving of opportunities like TJ because they were in AAP. Yes, my kids are in AAP, but so what. All kids deserve great opportunities, not just those whose parents know how to work the system. Lots of bright and gifted kids fallthrough the cracks.

What is the evidence/why the assumption that the majority of AAP kids somehow game the system? I’m at an upper SES school and don’t know a single family that did this, maybe I’m just unaware. I parent referred my kid in second, and he wasn’t accepted. Reapplied in third, accepted for fourth. I didn’t talk to the principal or a teacher about it, I just did it on my own. How are people gaming a system? Don’t claim they’re all PTA mom kids. Our center school has a fairly inactive PTA.

I don't know about the majority but many get in because their parents work the system.

How. Are. They. Working. The. System?

You (and others) keep asserting that over and over again, but without any proof or even a solid allegation, for that matter.

The last AAP Audit pointed to how families with higher SES end up with a higher percentage of kids in AAP then other families. It pointed to a higher propensity for parents to refer, parents to appeal, and parents to seek outside testing. FCPS removed the letters of recommendation from the AAP packet because it was noted that higher SES families were more likely to provide those and have kids in opportunities were someone could write a letter. FCPS also removed the awards section because higher SES families were more likely to have their kids involved in math competitions and music competitions.

Essentially, the rules allow all of the above but the Audit noted that as SES increase, the likelihood that parents used the rules increased. It also noted that Asian and White families were far more likely to use the various avenues in order to get their kids into AAP. And they are more likely to reapply. And reapply.

The parents are following the rules but the disparity in who is following those rules is leading to the process tightening. Test scores are no longer given much weight, they seem to be used only to establish the pool of automatic candidates. They removed the awards and letters of recommendation because they were biased towards people who could afford activities.

One of the recommendations from the Audit was to remove parent paid for testing and appeals.

The equity report also showed that URMs are being admitted with significantly lower test scores than White or Asian kids, and that after controlling for test scores and GBRS, a AA kid is 5 times more likely to be selected than an Asian kid.

My white DD got rejected and we needed to use the appeals/reapply system to get her in. She had a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, was above grade level in all metrics, eventually got pass advanced on all SOLs with perfect scores on most of them, and got a 98th percentile on IAAT. Meanwhile, 2 of her close friends who are URMs got in first round with CogAT scores less than 120. They weren't in the above grade level reading group, didn't get pass advanced on SOLs, failed the IAAT pretty spectacularly (one got 30th percentile), and didn't get the President's Award at the end of 6th. All of the kids were middle class with educated parents, but at a Title I school.

I don't begrudge letting above average but not really AAP level URMs into the program to promote equity, but let's be honest about the whole thing. URMs aren't needing to use the appeals or reapply process, because if they're slightly above average, they're already getting in first round. They don't even need to parent refer, since the teachers are already referring any URM who is somewhat above average. It's not unjust that I did use the appeals process for my child, since by any objective measurement, she belonged in the program. What is your solution to the fact that even after lowering the bar significantly for URMs, they're still technically underrepresented in AAP? Should we lower the bar even more? Should we reject more White and Asian kids who are above grade level in all metrics? Should we eliminate appeals to keep kids like mine out of the program?

So many majority parents pay to get the "right score" from a psychologist to get their kids in on appeal and so many majority parents get questionable "diagnosis" of conditions by paying and use that to get unjustified accommodations and extra time throughout schools and even in colleges. Shameful.

You can’t pay to get the “right score” from a psychologist. Even if you were to assume that some psychologist is willing to risk their license to give your child an overly high score, it wouldn’t help your child. They largely disregard WISC scores. Many parents appeal with scores higher than 130 or even higher than 140, and the kids are still being denied on appeal.

The parents who game the system for an ADHD diagnosis are not doing so at the beginning of 2nd grade. They generally don’t diagnose them that young.

Nonsense, people do it every year. I know a family who went to 3 different ones until they found one who would play ball. They did whatever it took to ensure their child got into AAP.

Persistence pays off bigly if you aren't concerned about the costs required to get your kid into AAP. Gaming the process is pretty easy even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that voice of reason

There is 0 reason for any kid/ family to be doing things at home to accelerate.

If the kid is extremely smart they should just skip a grade. The obsession of thinking so many kids are bored and need more challenging content is ridiculous

In the real world no one cares when you took algebra.

I am not going to ask the school to skip my kid a grade when he is the youngest kid in his class. Social skills and socialization is pretty important. I can more easily meet his academic needs with enrichment then I can deal with his social needs by having him in a higher level grade.

i don’t care when he takes algebra, if I did I would have him skip grades.

Guess what your special snowflake is fine without AAP. The whole program is a sham. High school is tracked and guess what there will be plenty of Non AAP kids in the top classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that voice of reason

There is 0 reason for any kid/ family to be doing things at home to accelerate.

If the kid is extremely smart they should just skip a grade. The obsession of thinking so many kids are bored and need more challenging content is ridiculous

In the real world no one cares when you took algebra.

I am not going to ask the school to skip my kid a grade when he is the youngest kid in his class. Social skills and socialization is pretty important. I can more easily meet his academic needs with enrichment then I can deal with his social needs by having him in a higher level grade.

i don’t care when he takes algebra, if I did I would have him skip grades.

Guess what your special snowflake is fine without AAP. The whole program is a sham. High school is tracked and guess what there will be plenty of Non AAP kids in the top classes.

My kid was accepted into AAP and I am just not that worried about where he is now and where he will be in high school. We provide enrichment because we know that what they are doing in school is not challenging him. He isn’t a special snowflake, he is a smart 10 year old who is pretty normal. He likes playing rec sports and math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that voice of reason

There is 0 reason for any kid/ family to be doing things at home to accelerate.

If the kid is extremely smart they should just skip a grade. The obsession of thinking so many kids are bored and need more challenging content is ridiculous

In the real world no one cares when you took algebra.

I am not going to ask the school to skip my kid a grade when he is the youngest kid in his class. Social skills and socialization is pretty important. I can more easily meet his academic needs with enrichment then I can deal with his social needs by having him in a higher level grade.

i don’t care when he takes algebra, if I did I would have him skip grades.

Guess what your special snowflake is fine without AAP. The whole program is a sham. High school is tracked and guess what there will be plenty of Non AAP kids in the top classes.

I don't knw why people think this is a compelling argument. I couldn't care less about who will be in my kid's high school classes. It has absolutely nothing to do with AAP placement in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that voice of reason

There is 0 reason for any kid/ family to be doing things at home to accelerate.

If the kid is extremely smart they should just skip a grade. The obsession of thinking so many kids are bored and need more challenging content is ridiculous

In the real world no one cares when you took algebra.

This might be the dumbest statement I've read in this forum!

[Anonymous]

When yall say provide enrichment wtf does that mean

Like yall are being a pain in the ass to the school district teaching them stuff that hasn't been covered in class yet and then of course they are going to be bored

People on DCUM are insufferable

Here's my point no one cares when you take Algebra or how many APs you took in high school

Pay attention to this. Getting ahead in America is about relationships not checking boxes. Emotional intelligence trumps IQ intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When yall say provide enrichment wtf does that mean

Like yall are being a pain in the ass to the school district teaching them stuff that hasn't been covered in class yet and then of course they are going to be bored

People on DCUM are insufferable

Here's my point no one cares when you take Algebra or how many APs you took in high school

Pay attention to this. Getting ahead in America is about relationships not checking boxes. Emotional intelligence trumps IQ intelligence.

If only the county would pick up the pace and try to challenge kids instead of dumbing everything down to the lowest performers paces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When yall say provide enrichment wtf does that mean

Like yall are being a pain in the ass to the school district teaching them stuff that hasn't been covered in class yet and then of course they are going to be bored

People on DCUM are insufferable

Here's my point no one cares when you take Algebra or how many APs you took in high school

Pay attention to this. Getting ahead in America is about relationships not checking boxes. Emotional intelligence trumps IQ intelligence.

Oh boy. No. America desperately needs engineers, scientists, doctors, medical researchers, architects. Those careers require education to the level necessary to the career. No we cannot just pretend it’s ok to gut math & science education for the top students. That’s utter maddness. What other country does that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When yall say provide enrichment wtf does that mean

Like yall are being a pain in the ass to the school district teaching them stuff that hasn't been covered in class yet and then of course they are going to be bored

People on DCUM are insufferable

Here's my point no one cares when you take Algebra or how many APs you took in high school

Pay attention to this. Getting ahead in America is about relationships not checking boxes. Emotional intelligence trumps IQ intelligence.

If only the county would pick up the pace and try to challenge kids instead of dumbing everything down to the lowest performers paces.

To pander to the privileged class at the expense of whites and Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When yall say provide enrichment wtf does that mean

Like yall are being a pain in the ass to the school district teaching them stuff that hasn't been covered in class yet and then of course they are going to be bored

People on DCUM are insufferable

Here's my point no one cares when you take Algebra or how many APs you took in high school

Pay attention to this. Getting ahead in America is about relationships not checking boxes. Emotional intelligence trumps IQ intelligence.

You're getting cause and effect mixed up. Many kids are quite bored with school well before their parents do any enrichment activities. The bar is very low, and everything moves at an absurdly slow pace. Parents seek enrichment because they want their kids to at least be learning something somewhere, and they for whatever reason don't feel that private school is the answer.

The best solution is for school to be much more rigorous and to challenge all students at their level, but that's not going to happen in the current equity minded system. The next best solution is for parents to ensure that their own kids are at least learning and developing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When yall say provide enrichment wtf does that mean

Like yall are being a pain in the ass to the school district teaching them stuff that hasn't been covered in class yet and then of course they are going to be bored

People on DCUM are insufferable

Here's my point no one cares when you take Algebra or how many APs you took in high school

Pay attention to this. Getting ahead in America is about relationships not checking boxes. Emotional intelligence trumps IQ intelligence.

We asked DS if he wanted to try RSM after he repeatedly told us he was bored at school. So yes, the RSM enrichment means that DS is farther ahead now then he had been but he was already ahead so it really doesn’t change anything. We remind him that the work at school is good practice and helps him solidify foundational material. We have never had a complaint from his Teacher.

We choose to send him to RSM because he loves math and enjoys being challenged. I don’t want him to stop enjoying math and if we need to send him to a program like RSM so that he is challenged and learning something new, then so be it.

[Anonymous]

I just don’t understand why schools don’t challenge every kid? They have enough classes to separate kids. Make it fluid- if a kid is getting a B bump him to a different class. If a kid gets As, bump to another class.

When I was a kid the class was taught to the average kid in the class. Now it’s taught to the lowest level the class can pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why schools don’t challenge every kid? They have enough classes to separate kids. Make it fluid- if a kid is getting a B bump him to a different class. If a kid gets As, bump to another class.

When I was a kid the class was taught to the average kid in the class. Now it’s taught to the lowest level the class can pass.

Because whites and Asians would be in the top and blacks and Hispanics would be at the bottom and the obsession with equity and political correctness can't let that happen.

[Anonymous]

I love how some person concludes that this study equates to not getting rid of AAP in spite of the fact it mostly just caters to higher SES families and ignores many who are equally deserving but without the means to work the system.