Science says: never get rid of AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

I agree with the PP. It seems more like a workaround for segregation based on SES.

That would only be the case at Title 1 or near Title 1 schools and in that case you are talking about families that cannot afford to buy in higher SES schools so more of a poor and slightly less poor or slightly less poor and lower middle class.

My friends who could afford a bigger house in an area with a Title 1 school moved to an area that was more solidly MC with a smaller FARMs population and accepted a larger house payment because they wanted better schools and realized that the Title 1 school was not going to meet their kids needs.

MC and UMC families are not buying houses in Title 1 and near Title 1 schools. Or if they do, they send their kids to private schools with the money they save on the mortgage. Most of the parents who are complaining about kids with 140 test scores not being accepted into AAP are likely in MC or UMC schools that are pretty solid. There will be exceptions to that rule, of course, but for the most part the people complaining are more upset that there are some schools were kids with lower scores are being accepted into AAP while kids with higher scores in their schools are not accepted.

Economic segregation already happens, AAP is not really playing that role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

I agree with the PP. It seems more like a workaround for segregation based on SES.

That would only be the case at Title 1 or near Title 1 schools and in that case you are talking about families that cannot afford to buy in higher SES schools so more of a poor and slightly less poor or slightly less poor and lower middle class.

My friends who could afford a bigger house in an area with a Title 1 school moved to an area that was more solidly MC with a smaller FARMs population and accepted a larger house payment because they wanted better schools and realized that the Title 1 school was not going to meet their kids needs.

MC and UMC families are not buying houses in Title 1 and near Title 1 schools. Or if they do, they send their kids to private schools with the money they save on the mortgage. Most of the parents who are complaining about kids with 140 test scores not being accepted into AAP are likely in MC or UMC schools that are pretty solid. There will be exceptions to that rule, of course, but for the most part the people complaining are more upset that there are some schools were kids with lower scores are being accepted into AAP while kids with higher scores in their schools are not accepted.

Economic segregation already happens, AAP is not really playing that role.

The bolded point is flat out wrong. My kids' Title I school has about 45% FARMS. The other 55% is mostly middle and upper middle class families. A lot of MC people prioritize house size and commute over great schools ratings. Or they bought well before they had kids and weren't paying attention to schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

I agree with the PP. It seems more like a workaround for segregation based on SES.

That would only be the case at Title 1 or near Title 1 schools and in that case you are talking about families that cannot afford to buy in higher SES schools so more of a poor and slightly less poor or slightly less poor and lower middle class.

My friends who could afford a bigger house in an area with a Title 1 school moved to an area that was more solidly MC with a smaller FARMs population and accepted a larger house payment because they wanted better schools and realized that the Title 1 school was not going to meet their kids needs.

MC and UMC families are not buying houses in Title 1 and near Title 1 schools. Or if they do, they send their kids to private schools with the money they save on the mortgage. Most of the parents who are complaining about kids with 140 test scores not being accepted into AAP are likely in MC or UMC schools that are pretty solid. There will be exceptions to that rule, of course, but for the most part the people complaining are more upset that there are some schools were kids with lower scores are being accepted into AAP while kids with higher scores in their schools are not accepted.

Economic segregation already happens, AAP is not really playing that role.

The bolded point is flat out wrong. My kids' Title I school has about 45% FARMS. The other 55% is mostly middle and upper middle class families. A lot of MC people prioritize house size and commute over great schools ratings. Or they bought well before they had kids and weren't paying attention to schools.

Or they didn't place any trust in the great school ratings and thought the school would be fine because it's FCPS. --NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

I agree with the PP. It seems more like a workaround for segregation based on SES.

That would only be the case at Title 1 or near Title 1 schools and in that case you are talking about families that cannot afford to buy in higher SES schools so more of a poor and slightly less poor or slightly less poor and lower middle class.

My friends who could afford a bigger house in an area with a Title 1 school moved to an area that was more solidly MC with a smaller FARMs population and accepted a larger house payment because they wanted better schools and realized that the Title 1 school was not going to meet their kids needs.

MC and UMC families are not buying houses in Title 1 and near Title 1 schools. Or if they do, they send their kids to private schools with the money they save on the mortgage. Most of the parents who are complaining about kids with 140 test scores not being accepted into AAP are likely in MC or UMC schools that are pretty solid. There will be exceptions to that rule, of course, but for the most part the people complaining are more upset that there are some schools were kids with lower scores are being accepted into AAP while kids with higher scores in their schools are not accepted.

Economic segregation already happens, AAP is not really playing that role.

The bolded point is flat out wrong. My kids' Title I school has about 45% FARMS. The other 55% is mostly middle and upper middle class families. A lot of MC people prioritize house size and commute over great schools ratings. Or they bought well before they had kids and weren't paying attention to schools.

And that is on them. They have the money to move if they want. I had friends who choose to move and I had one friend who was desperately trying to get her kid into AAP or a magnate program. If you choose a larger house over the quality of your school, that is on you. I have no real sympathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

I agree with the PP. It seems more like a workaround for segregation based on SES.

That would only be the case at Title 1 or near Title 1 schools and in that case you are talking about families that cannot afford to buy in higher SES schools so more of a poor and slightly less poor or slightly less poor and lower middle class.

My friends who could afford a bigger house in an area with a Title 1 school moved to an area that was more solidly MC with a smaller FARMs population and accepted a larger house payment because they wanted better schools and realized that the Title 1 school was not going to meet their kids needs.

MC and UMC families are not buying houses in Title 1 and near Title 1 schools. Or if they do, they send their kids to private schools with the money they save on the mortgage. Most of the parents who are complaining about kids with 140 test scores not being accepted into AAP are likely in MC or UMC schools that are pretty solid. There will be exceptions to that rule, of course, but for the most part the people complaining are more upset that there are some schools were kids with lower scores are being accepted into AAP while kids with higher scores in their schools are not accepted.

Economic segregation already happens, AAP is not really playing that role.

The bolded point is flat out wrong. My kids' Title I school has about 45% FARMS. The other 55% is mostly middle and upper middle class families. A lot of MC people prioritize house size and commute over great schools ratings. Or they bought well before they had kids and weren't paying attention to schools.

And that is on them. They have the money to move if they want. I had friends who choose to move and I had one friend who was desperately trying to get her kid into AAP or a magnate program. If you choose a larger house over the quality of your school, that is on you. I have no real sympathy.

I'm not assigning judgment or blame. I'm just correcting the incorrect assumption that Title I schools are filled entirely with poor through lower middle class kids and high SES schools are filled with wealthy kids. There are UMC kids attending every single FCPS school. I know of several UMC kids who graduated from Annandale HS and Justice HS. They aren't all fleeing for wealthier schools. Likewise, there are FARMS kids in the high SES schools. There are also LMC but not quite FARMS kids.

None of the FCPS schools are *that* bad, and few of the high SES schools are good enough to justify selling your house and moving. My kids' Title I school was actually quite lovely with many dedicated teachers and many advanced opportunities. Yes, the GS rating was low due to the ESOL and FARMs kids failing the SOLs, but that didn't impact the education delivered to the middle class kids. Most of the kids who left for the AAP center could have easily had their needs met in gen ed + advanced math at the local Title I school. Now that the school has LLIV, almost no one leaves for the center.

Most of the dcum posters seem to be people with their children in wealthy schools who are making a lot of wildly incorrect assumptions about the Title I schools.

[Anonymous]

I'm one of the people that think all of you are nuts and too liberal for your own good

If you want a program that takes the top 10% from each school just say that.

If you want TJ to do the same thing just say that as well.

These programs aren't taking the best and brightest (they should be) and it's hypocritical to pretend otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP isn’t tracking. It’s segregation.

This is such a stupid post.

I agree with the PP. It seems more like a workaround for segregation based on SES.

That would only be the case at Title 1 or near Title 1 schools and in that case you are talking about families that cannot afford to buy in higher SES schools so more of a poor and slightly less poor or slightly less poor and lower middle class.

My friends who could afford a bigger house in an area with a Title 1 school moved to an area that was more solidly MC with a smaller FARMs population and accepted a larger house payment because they wanted better schools and realized that the Title 1 school was not going to meet their kids needs.

MC and UMC families are not buying houses in Title 1 and near Title 1 schools. Or if they do, they send their kids to private schools with the money they save on the mortgage. Most of the parents who are complaining about kids with 140 test scores not being accepted into AAP are likely in MC or UMC schools that are pretty solid. There will be exceptions to that rule, of course, but for the most part the people complaining are more upset that there are some schools were kids with lower scores are being accepted into AAP while kids with higher scores in their schools are not accepted.

Economic segregation already happens, AAP is not really playing that role.

The bolded point is flat out wrong. My kids' Title I school has about 45% FARMS. The other 55% is mostly middle and upper middle class families. A lot of MC people prioritize house size and commute over great schools ratings. Or they bought well before they had kids and weren't paying attention to schools.

And that is on them. They have the money to move if they want. I had friends who choose to move and I had one friend who was desperately trying to get her kid into AAP or a magnate program. If you choose a larger house over the quality of your school, that is on you. I have no real sympathy.

Eh, I feel good about our choices. Our Title I school is a nurturing, close-knit community and the families are welcoming and down-to-earth. My kids are learning that not everyone is wealthy and privileged. Both were easily accepted into the AAP program (which might not have been the case at a higher-SES school) and are thriving.

[Anonymous]

The AAP program has grown too large. Used to be more selective. If everyone is special, the no one is special.

Every pyramid should have AAP in the middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The AAP program has grown too large. Used to be more selective. If everyone is special, the no one is special.

Every pyramid should have AAP in the middle school.

The problem is viewing at as a measure of "specialness" in the first place. For the most part, AAP is just regular school, but slightly faster and one year advanced beyond grade level. All kids who are in fact one year above grade level should be included. No kids who are on or below grade level should be included. It's really that simple. For what AAP is, there's entirely too much status attached and too much hand wringing over what ought to be a fairly straightforward academic placement.

[Anonymous]

Isn’t it also about exploring subjects in more depth? While AAP may be more advanced work, I’m pretty sure the 3rd grade AAP classes aren’t doing the exact same curriculum as 4th grade gen ed classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone knows this. But it's who you're trying to support- top learners benefit from AAP, but taking top learners out of gen ed hurts the bottom learners.

I have an AAP student and a kid in GenEd who struggles in school. I do not want AAP students, especially in this area, in my GenEd kid’s class. They do not raise him up, it’s not their job to teach him, and constantly feeling like the “dumbest” kid in class is murder on his self-esteem. I prefer that he’s in a class where there is not a huge range of abilities and his teacher can spend more time instructing at his level.

AAP has problems and could use reforms, but I don’t want them in my struggling kid’s class any more than the special snowflake’s parents want him in theirs.

+1

Exactly this. You don’t want your kid to feel dumb.

And believe me- it’s crushing to watch their self esteem fall apart.

[Anonymous]

The kids are aware what class they are in. Fifth grade is the year the Advanced Math class forms at our school. The kids know which who is in the “smart” class and who isn’t. Their words, not mine. After four years mixing kids around with very few behavior issues, it is crazy hearing stories from my kids friends parents. The AM group is earning treats and activities for their good behavior, the other group is not. The kids are more disruptive and less focused in the regular class. It is like losing the balance of the AM kids created a totally different environment. Kind of crazy to watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The AAP program has grown too large. Used to be more selective. If everyone is special, the no one is special.

Every pyramid should have AAP in the middle school.

The problem is viewing at as a measure of "specialness" in the first place. For the most part, AAP is just regular school, but slightly faster and one year advanced beyond grade level. All kids who are in fact one year above grade level should be included. No kids who are on or below grade level should be included. It's really that simple. For what AAP is, there's entirely too much status attached and too much hand wringing over what ought to be a fairly straightforward academic placement.

No, it’s not. AAP is about providing services to kids who would not be well served in a Gen Ed classroom. I can’t imagine anyone disagreeing that the Gen Ed classrooms vary from one school to another (and as such, the grade level or CogAT or whatever measure you want to use where a student would not be well-served in that Gen Ed classroom is also going to vary from school to school). This is why a universal county-wide measure would be inappropriate for the program. For a while they tried to address this via busing kids to centers, but are now recognizing the flaws in that approach to de-emphasize centers and encourage LLIV, and hence greater emphasis on adapting the program (appropriately so) the variance at each school.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for that voice of reason

There is 0 reason for any kid/ family to be doing things at home to accelerate.

If the kid is extremely smart they should just skip a grade. The obsession of thinking so many kids are bored and need more challenging content is ridiculous

In the real world no one cares when you took algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for that voice of reason

There is 0 reason for any kid/ family to be doing things at home to accelerate.

If the kid is extremely smart they should just skip a grade. The obsession of thinking so many kids are bored and need more challenging content is ridiculous

In the real world no one cares when you took algebra.

I am not going to ask the school to skip my kid a grade when he is the youngest kid in his class. Social skills and socialization is pretty important. I can more easily meet his academic needs with enrichment then I can deal with his social needs by having him in a higher level grade.

i don’t care when he takes algebra, if I did I would have him skip grades.