The college essay

[Anonymous]

For readers interested in yield at the most selective schools, some might be surprised at the yield percentage for some very elite schools. Williams College, for example,has struggled to get above 50% yield rate having achieved 52% in 2022 after years in the 46% range. Swarthmore & Pomona are at about 45% yield, while Amherst College--reportedly from a third party source--has just a 35% yield rate.

When applying to elite SLACs, applying ED is often a huge application boost.

Over decades, many articles have appeared lamenting Princeton dismal yield in cross-admit battles with Harvard, Yale, & Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite schools tend to be concerned about yield. If true, then one's college application essay may shed light on whether or not an RD applicant would likely attend.

To state that college application essays do not matter is incorrect with respect to the most selective schools as much can be garnered from an applicant's writing that may not be evident from the rest of the application.

Again, you’re talking out your a$$. The schools that rejected this kid don’t have any concerns about yield. They’re not going to reject an applicant out of fear they won’t come. In fact they’re on the record as not taking “demonstrated interest” into account.

Why do posters just make stuff up?

Yield is a concern and function of admissions. Expected yield, predicted yield, or just yield is calculated into highly selective schools admissions.

A concern about yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

None of the schools that didn’t accept that poster’s kid didn’t accept him because they were afraid he’d go elsewhere. They routinely reject applicants with those numbers and virtually every applicant they accept have them.

Not even the poster is suggesting that it was yield protection. That’s a contrived thing for parents to feel better about rejections: “they didn’t accept my kid because he’s too good for the school and won’t come.” How often do you think the schools that that poster listed - Harvard, MIT, Amherst, Williams as a legacy, etc - actually think that way?

They don’t.

Lower ranked top 25s, maybe. But not schools like those.

Again, yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

Yield is part of every highly selective school's admission process.
because schools such as Stanford & Harvard enjoy 80% yields, they accept fewer applicant per available seat in each incoming class than does a school with a lower yield.

While I agree that OP's son most likely was not rejected out of concern for yield or yield protection by Stanford, Harvard, Yale, & MIT, he probably was a yield concern for Williams College--especially because he was a legacy applicant who did not apply ED.

Agree to disagree. I find it hard to believe that Williams College would reject a legacy applicant with those kind of stats and risk annoying an alum simply out of concern yield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite schools tend to be concerned about yield. If true, then one's college application essay may shed light on whether or not an RD applicant would likely attend.

To state that college application essays do not matter is incorrect with respect to the most selective schools as much can be garnered from an applicant's writing that may not be evident from the rest of the application.

Again, you’re talking out your a$$. The schools that rejected this kid don’t have any concerns about yield. They’re not going to reject an applicant out of fear they won’t come. In fact they’re on the record as not taking “demonstrated interest” into account.

Why do posters just make stuff up?

Yield is a concern and function of admissions. Expected yield, predicted yield, or just yield is calculated into highly selective schools admissions.

A concern about yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

None of the schools that didn’t accept that poster’s kid didn’t accept him because they were afraid he’d go elsewhere. They routinely reject applicants with those numbers and virtually every applicant they accept have them.

Not even the poster is suggesting that it was yield protection. That’s a contrived thing for parents to feel better about rejections: “they didn’t accept my kid because he’s too good for the school and won’t come.” How often do you think the schools that that poster listed - Harvard, MIT, Amherst, Williams as a legacy, etc - actually think that way?

They don’t.

Lower ranked top 25s, maybe. But not schools like those.

Again, yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

Yield is part of every highly selective school's admission process.
because schools such as Stanford & Harvard enjoy 80% yields, they accept fewer applicant per available seat in each incoming class than does a school with a lower yield.

While I agree that OP's son most likely was not rejected out of concern for yield or yield protection by Stanford, Harvard, Yale, & MIT, he probably was a yield concern for Williams College--especially because he was a legacy applicant who did not apply ED.

Agree to disagree. I find it hard to believe that Williams College would reject a legacy applicant with those kind of stats and risk annoying an alum simply out of concern yield.

I encourage you to read a book or two on selective college admissions. Yield is a very important concern for admissions officers. Legacy applicants who do not apply ED when available as an option are rejected or waitlisted frequently.

US News article listed schools with yield rates of 50% or more for Fall 2019 admissions.

Among elite National Universities, only 14 had yield rates of 50% or more:

The 8 Ivies and Stanford, Chicago, MIT, Notre Dame, Northwestern, & Duke. (All were above 50% yield rate.)

Among elite LACs--excluding the service academies, only 4 schools had a yield rate above 50% : Barnard, Bowdoin, Pomona, & Claremont McKenna.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the kid. For one or two of mine, I basically wrote their essays. Whatever. They have very little impact on college admissions for most kids.

If you think it's very little impact then why didnt you just let them submit an essay you didn't write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL DCUM be like
I’ll pay for private school, hire tutors, pay for test prep, pay a college consultant, stalk DCUM’s college thread, and college confidential, advocate to have child assessed, they may need more time, inspect class rigor each year in HS, calculate potential gpa, spring for spring break trips to do campus tours, stalk college websites….
….but the college essay?
God no, didn’t even peek at it. Cuz now that’s where I draw the line.

Yeah. Because having someone else write it or correct your mistakes is cheating.

First, some would say, that these cheat the system as well.
Second, what you call cheating, some would call The Writing Process.

How is it cheating to have someone correct mistakes or make recommendations for changes? Publishing houses have editors. That doesn't mean the authors don't write their own works. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite schools tend to be concerned about yield. If true, then one's college application essay may shed light on whether or not an RD applicant would likely attend.

To state that college application essays do not matter is incorrect with respect to the most selective schools as much can be garnered from an applicant's writing that may not be evident from the rest of the application.

Again, you’re talking out your a$$. The schools that rejected this kid don’t have any concerns about yield. They’re not going to reject an applicant out of fear they won’t come. In fact they’re on the record as not taking “demonstrated interest” into account.

Why do posters just make stuff up?

Yield is a concern and function of admissions. Expected yield, predicted yield, or just yield is calculated into highly selective schools admissions.

A concern about yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

None of the schools that didn’t accept that poster’s kid didn’t accept him because they were afraid he’d go elsewhere. They routinely reject applicants with those numbers and virtually every applicant they accept have them.

Not even the poster is suggesting that it was yield protection. That’s a contrived thing for parents to feel better about rejections: “they didn’t accept my kid because he’s too good for the school and won’t come.” How often do you think the schools that that poster listed - Harvard, MIT, Amherst, Williams as a legacy, etc - actually think that way?

They don’t.

Lower ranked top 25s, maybe. But not schools like those.

Again, yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

Yield is part of every highly selective school's admission process.
because schools such as Stanford & Harvard enjoy 80% yields, they accept fewer applicant per available seat in each incoming class than does a school with a lower yield.

While I agree that OP's son most likely was not rejected out of concern for yield or yield protection by Stanford, Harvard, Yale, & MIT, he probably was a yield concern for Williams College--especially because he was a legacy applicant who did not apply ED.

Agree to disagree. I find it hard to believe that Williams College would reject a legacy applicant with those kind of stats and risk annoying an alum simply out of concern yield.

Legacy disappears if you don’t apply early. There was effectively no legacy bump in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your DC asked for help, then give some help. Having them read it out loud to you goes a long way for finding things that are awkward. Fix the worst grammar errors or point out places to improve flow. That’s what the English teacher would be doing. Don’t suggest lots of wording changes or restructure it completely - you’ll lose DC’s voice. For most colleges, it really won’t be the most important thing.

And to PP who said they wrote most of it for 2 kids - I salute you. The only place that I really think the essays matter is for very selective schools. This is where I think it’s most important for students to write their own essay, and also where I’m sure the most paid for essays are submitted. My DC1 wrote a crappy 1st cut essay that he refused to edit and got into state flagship on strength of SAT scores. DC2 wrote amazing essays that I never saw and was accepted at several top schools. Writing is the current bane of DC3. Has difficulty starting because they have a bazillion ideas and can’t pick one. Then, if left on own will produce 3 times as much writing as needed and then can’t edit down. Did I sit down this weekend and ask them a series of questions, typing their answers, to get something outlined as a start? Yes. They are supposed to do some more editing in the next week. Will I likely be sitting down again to help refine? Yes. They aren’t applying to top schools, the essay is a BS requirement generally IMO, and I’m over it.

Your DC3 sounds like mine. First draft was awful. So we sat down and I asked a ton of questions, I wrote down his ideas, waited a day and read them back to him. Slowly but surely we worked our way through a solid second draft. I am 100% keeping on top of this and providing support - his words, my structure and editing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL DCUM be like
I’ll pay for private school, hire tutors, pay for test prep, pay a college consultant, stalk DCUM’s college thread, and college confidential, advocate to have child assessed, they may need more time, inspect class rigor each year in HS, calculate potential gpa, spring for spring break trips to do campus tours, stalk college websites….
….but the college essay?
God no, didn’t even peek at it. Cuz now that’s where I draw the line.

Yeah. Because having someone else write it or correct your mistakes is cheating.

First, some would say, that these cheat the system as well.
Second, what you call cheating, some would call The Writing Process.

How is it cheating to have someone correct mistakes or make recommendations for changes? Publishing houses have editors. That doesn't mean the authors don't write their own works. Good grief.

100% this. Proof reading, editing, asking questions about the intention of ideas are completely acceptable and are not cheating. Ever step along the way our kids have been encouraged to have someone else review their work. Colleges expect that. Its one part, a more creative and personal way to define yourself aside from the GPA, Test scores etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your DC asked for help, then give some help. Having them read it out loud to you goes a long way for finding things that are awkward. Fix the worst grammar errors or point out places to improve flow. That’s what the English teacher would be doing. Don’t suggest lots of wording changes or restructure it completely - you’ll lose DC’s voice. For most colleges, it really won’t be the most important thing.

And to PP who said they wrote most of it for 2 kids - I salute you. The only place that I really think the essays matter is for very selective schools. This is where I think it’s most important for students to write their own essay, and also where I’m sure the most paid for essays are submitted. My DC1 wrote a crappy 1st cut essay that he refused to edit and got into state flagship on strength of SAT scores. DC2 wrote amazing essays that I never saw and was accepted at several top schools. Writing is the current bane of DC3. Has difficulty starting because they have a bazillion ideas and can’t pick one. Then, if left on own will produce 3 times as much writing as needed and then can’t edit down. Did I sit down this weekend and ask them a series of questions, typing their answers, to get something outlined as a start? Yes. They are supposed to do some more editing in the next week. Will I likely be sitting down again to help refine? Yes. They aren’t applying to top schools, the essay is a BS requirement generally IMO, and I’m over it.

Your DC3 sounds like mine. First draft was awful. So we sat down and I asked a ton of questions, I wrote down his ideas, waited a day and read them back to him. Slowly but surely we worked our way through a solid second draft. I am 100% keeping on top of this and providing support - his words, my structure and editing.

Your structure is you contributing to writing it. Should be his structure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL DCUM be like
I’ll pay for private school, hire tutors, pay for test prep, pay a college consultant, stalk DCUM’s college thread, and college confidential, advocate to have child assessed, they may need more time, inspect class rigor each year in HS, calculate potential gpa, spring for spring break trips to do campus tours, stalk college websites….
….but the college essay?
God no, didn’t even peek at it. Cuz now that’s where I draw the line.

Yeah. Because having someone else write it or correct your mistakes is cheating.

First, some would say, that these cheat the system as well.
Second, what you call cheating, some would call The Writing Process.

How is it cheating to have someone correct mistakes or make recommendations for changes? Publishing houses have editors. That doesn't mean the authors don't write their own works. Good grief.

Flaghing mistakes is fine, but correcting them suggests you are now creating content. That would not be the student's work and make you a contributer.

A student essay is not the same as a writer wirking with an editor. All the content should be the student's.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for all the phone typos!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the kid. For one or two of mine, I basically wrote their essays. Whatever. They have very little impact on college admissions for most kids.

for some colleges it doesn't matter, but for some it does, and essays written by parents should not exist, period
the essay entry should be just like an SAT essay, the student gets 1 hour and writes something selected from 5 topics that are provided on the spot and that is the essay that goes to all colleges, they should be interested in the emotional maturity so the topic should not be controversial and still provide opportunity to express opinions

the whole system is just, what's the right word, shady business?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the kid. For one or two of mine, I basically wrote their essays. Whatever. They have very little impact on college admissions for most kids.

for some colleges it doesn't matter, but for some it does, and essays written by parents should not exist, period
the essay entry should be just like an SAT essay, the student gets 1 hour and writes something selected from 5 topics that are provided on the spot and that is the essay that goes to all colleges, they should be interested in the emotional maturity so the topic should not be controversial and still provide opportunity to express opinions

the whole system is just, what's the right word, shady business?

The right word is big business.