The college essay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL DCUM be like
I’ll pay for private school, hire tutors, pay for test prep, pay a college consultant, stalk DCUM’s college thread, and college confidential, advocate to have child assessed, they may need more time, inspect class rigor each year in HS, calculate potential gpa, spring for spring break trips to do campus tours, stalk college websites….
….but the college essay?
God no, didn’t even peek at it. Cuz now that’s where I draw the line.

Hahahahah

So true. But, of course, the same people who have been glued to this thread will now come back and say nooooo that’s not me I didn’t do any of those things I just happened to stumble upon a thread called “college essays” because I’m totally uninvolved in my kid’s college applications. Lol.

What’s really going on here is that they are all so competitive that they are irked by the possibility, even though there is no possibility, that what I did with my kids’ essay hurt their kids in the college application process. They are obsessed.

There is a difference between being informed and cheating. You want to set up some hyperbolic scenario that only fits a small few to justify your cheating. Ugh.

Yes, some people invest in lots of resources for their kids. We can't afford that, so I do try to stay informed to advise. But, neither advising nor enrichment equates to writing the essay. Yikes.

Sigh. I’m going to spell it out again. My kid came up with the topic on her own (no “brainstorming” with a paid “essay consultant” or college admissions counselor) and write a full first draft. Then I looked at it, edited the absolute bejesus out of it, and she decided which edits to accept. She didn’t accept all of them. So when I said I “basically wrote it” I was being a little sarcastic. I don’t think what I did made any difference other than to make me feel better and I’m quite certain it had no impact on my - or your - kid’s college admissions.

The only difference between me and many other posters is, ironically, my honesty. I am quite certain I had far less of a hand in my kids’ college applications than many of you.

Sigh. You've already admitted to essentially rewriting it when you say, "Editing the bejesus out of it." That is writing it. Yes, the kid started it, but you wrote it too. It is a co-authored essay. For the purposes of the application, that is cheating.

Ok whatever you say. I disagree. If I wrote the essay on the same topic myself it would have looked a lot different.

Sorry for costing your kid a slot in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Funny. I had to flag parts of my kid's essay because her word choice/phrasing sounded like an old lady. I was worried Admissions would think her parent wrote it (like an earlier poster or 2 did, clearly, and sadly, it is a thing). I did not write or offer suggestions, just marked areas that seemed clunky or old ladyish.

[Anonymous]

Nevertheless, I do agree that a small number of elite schools do not give much concern about yield--but this is just a tiny handful of schools such as Stanford, Harvard, MIT,and maybe a few others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL DCUM be like
I’ll pay for private school, hire tutors, pay for test prep, pay a college consultant, stalk DCUM’s college thread, and college confidential, advocate to have child assessed, they may need more time, inspect class rigor each year in HS, calculate potential gpa, spring for spring break trips to do campus tours, stalk college websites….
….but the college essay?
God no, didn’t even peek at it. Cuz now that’s where I draw the line.

Hahahahah

So true. But, of course, the same people who have been glued to this thread will now come back and say nooooo that’s not me I didn’t do any of those things I just happened to stumble upon a thread called “college essays” because I’m totally uninvolved in my kid’s college applications. Lol.

What’s really going on here is that they are all so competitive that they are irked by the possibility, even though there is no possibility, that what I did with my kids’ essay hurt their kids in the college application process. They are obsessed.

There is a difference between being informed and cheating. You want to set up some hyperbolic scenario that only fits a small few to justify your cheating. Ugh.

Yes, some people invest in lots of resources for their kids. We can't afford that, so I do try to stay informed to advise. But, neither advising nor enrichment equates to writing the essay. Yikes.

Sigh. I’m going to spell it out again. My kid came up with the topic on her own (no “brainstorming” with a paid “essay consultant” or college admissions counselor) and write a full first draft. Then I looked at it, edited the absolute bejesus out of it, and she decided which edits to accept. She didn’t accept all of them. So when I said I “basically wrote it” I was being a little sarcastic. I don’t think what I did made any difference other than to make me feel better and I’m quite certain it had no impact on my - or your - kid’s college admissions.

The only difference between me and many other posters is, ironically, my honesty. I am quite certain I had far less of a hand in my kids’ college applications than many of you.

Sigh. You've already admitted to essentially rewriting it when you say, "Editing the bejesus out of it." That is writing it. Yes, the kid started it, but you wrote it too. It is a co-authored essay. For the purposes of the application, that is cheating.

Ok whatever you say. I disagree. If I wrote the essay on the same topic myself it would have looked a lot different.

Sorry for costing your kid a slot in college admissions.

You wrote part of it. That is enough to cheat.

My kid is happy at her dream school. I was thinking about other kids that your work may have helped displace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had no involvement in my kid's essays, though I did read the Common App one before it went in. I thought it was solid, and reflected both his voice and who he was, but it wasn't amazing.

His admissions results were not as good as I would have expected going into the process given his basic academic qualifications (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA, 35 ACT) and solid EC profile), though he's ended up in a good situation.

I don't know whether a better essay would have helped, but it might have.

Are you willing to share admissions results from specific colleges & universities ?

In at Northeastern, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech, James Madison University.

Not in at Harvard, Yale, MIT, Williams, Amherst, or Virginia.

Was a full IB Diploma candidate, Eagle Scout, and two-time captain of both his high school and club hockey teams (hockey was a 25-30 hour a week commitment for all 4 years of high school).

Yea I’d be disappointed too, honestly. Those aren’t great choices. No way it was just the essay.

Why didn’t he apply to LACs slightly below Amherst and Williams? It’s like you had all reaches and safeties and no matches. Or did you assume that UVA was a match?

It turns out that Northeastern was a very good fit for him, and came through with a very good merit aid package. So I am very happy with the way that turned out (and, more importantly, he is too). I went to Williams, so I was pretty disappointed that he didn't get in there, though the admissions rate this year was mind-boggling low. He applied to Williams and Amherst in hopes of playing hockey there. Otherwise, they were a little small for what he wanted and didn't specifically have a business major, which is what he was interested in. Not getting into UVa was stunning to me, given his profile. Nothing but green checks around him in Naviance, and historically the full IB students with good grades all got in. Obviously that changed this year. If the merit aid package from Northeastern hadn't come through, he might have gone the junior hockey route and applied again in a few years. But this is a good path for him.

Are you saying that a student with stats as high as his and who is as good at hockey as you say he is and is a Williams Legacy wouldn’t have been accepted to Williams to play hockey? That seems so odd to me. I continue to think something is missing. Especially because of the UVA rejection. It’s mind boggling.

The path to college hockey is much more convoluted than for most sports. Almost all players have to go through at least 1 or 2 seasons of junior hockey before playing NCAA hockey, and many players aren't even recruited until they have already turned 20. So the Williams coach, whom my son had met, might have been interested in him, but not for at least a few more years. He simply applied Regular Decision.

Ah ok I get it. Did your son apply anywhere early decision?

No. Early Action to UVa, VT, Northeastern, and JMU. He wasn't ready to commit to any one place that early in the process. I suspect that had he applied ED to Williams, he would have had a much better chance of getting in.

The benefit of legacy status in college admissions diminishes greatly if one does not apply ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite schools tend to be concerned about yield. If true, then one's college application essay may shed light on whether or not an RD applicant would likely attend.

To state that college application essays do not matter is incorrect with respect to the most selective schools as much can be garnered from an applicant's writing that may not be evident from the rest of the application.

Again, you’re talking out your a$$. The schools that rejected this kid don’t have any concerns about yield. They’re not going to reject an applicant out of fear they won’t come. In fact they’re on the record as not taking “demonstrated interest” into account.

Why do posters just make stuff up?

Yield is a concern and function of admissions. Expected yield, predicted yield, or just yield is calculated into highly selective schools admissions.

A concern about yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

None of the schools that didn’t accept that poster’s kid didn’t accept him because they were afraid he’d go elsewhere. They routinely reject applicants with those numbers and virtually every applicant they accept have them.

Not even the poster is suggesting that it was yield protection. That’s a contrived thing for parents to feel better about rejections: “they didn’t accept my kid because he’s too good for the school and won’t come.” How often do you think the schools that that poster listed - Harvard, MIT, Amherst, Williams as a legacy, etc - actually think that way?

They don’t.

Lower ranked top 25s, maybe. But not schools like those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny. I had to flag parts of my kid's essay because her word choice/phrasing sounded like an old lady. I was worried Admissions would think her parent wrote it (like an earlier poster or 2 did, clearly, and sadly, it is a thing). I did not write or offer suggestions, just marked areas that seemed clunky or old ladyish.

And your kid changed them because of you. No difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL DCUM be like
I’ll pay for private school, hire tutors, pay for test prep, pay a college consultant, stalk DCUM’s college thread, and college confidential, advocate to have child assessed, they may need more time, inspect class rigor each year in HS, calculate potential gpa, spring for spring break trips to do campus tours, stalk college websites….
….but the college essay?
God no, didn’t even peek at it. Cuz now that’s where I draw the line.

Hahahahah

So true. But, of course, the same people who have been glued to this thread will now come back and say nooooo that’s not me I didn’t do any of those things I just happened to stumble upon a thread called “college essays” because I’m totally uninvolved in my kid’s college applications. Lol.

What’s really going on here is that they are all so competitive that they are irked by the possibility, even though there is no possibility, that what I did with my kids’ essay hurt their kids in the college application process. They are obsessed.

There is a difference between being informed and cheating. You want to set up some hyperbolic scenario that only fits a small few to justify your cheating. Ugh.

Yes, some people invest in lots of resources for their kids. We can't afford that, so I do try to stay informed to advise. But, neither advising nor enrichment equates to writing the essay. Yikes.

Sigh. I’m going to spell it out again. My kid came up with the topic on her own (no “brainstorming” with a paid “essay consultant” or college admissions counselor) and write a full first draft. Then I looked at it, edited the absolute bejesus out of it, and she decided which edits to accept. She didn’t accept all of them. So when I said I “basically wrote it” I was being a little sarcastic. I don’t think what I did made any difference other than to make me feel better and I’m quite certain it had no impact on my - or your - kid’s college admissions.

The only difference between me and many other posters is, ironically, my honesty. I am quite certain I had far less of a hand in my kids’ college applications than many of you.

Sigh. You've already admitted to essentially rewriting it when you say, "Editing the bejesus out of it." That is writing it. Yes, the kid started it, but you wrote it too. It is a co-authored essay. For the purposes of the application, that is cheating.

Ok whatever you say. I disagree. If I wrote the essay on the same topic myself it would have looked a lot different.

Sorry for costing your kid a slot in college admissions.

You wrote part of it. That is enough to cheat.

My kid is happy at her dream school. I was thinking about other kids that your work may have helped displace.

How altruistic of you! You’re such a giver.

If what I did had any bearing on any other kid then college admissions is really really bad off. I don’t even think it had any impact on her!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the kid. For one or two of mine, I basically wrote their essays. Whatever. They have very little impact on college admissions for most kids.

I like this honesty. I think this is probably true for at least 50% of the kids. About 50% of my friends admitted to writing their kids essays or hiring someone to. The other half either lie or seriously didn't, I am not sure which.

I had my kid do the first draft essay and then I edited it pretty heavily.

My kid won’t allow any edits to their first draft at all

They are in for a rough go in college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny. I had to flag parts of my kid's essay because her word choice/phrasing sounded like an old lady. I was worried Admissions would think her parent wrote it (like an earlier poster or 2 did, clearly, and sadly, it is a thing). I did not write or offer suggestions, just marked areas that seemed clunky or old ladyish.

And your kid changed them because of you. No difference.

The essay is not like the writing section of the ACT where you have a certain time to write by yourself. You should never let your DC just send it in. In most schools public and private both the English teacher and the counselor review and edit. Many people have others do same. It is still their work. Hemmingway often shared his writing and got feedback. Published as his because it was his. Editors of every book do the same (and rewrite). None of this is cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elite schools tend to be concerned about yield. If true, then one's college application essay may shed light on whether or not an RD applicant would likely attend.

To state that college application essays do not matter is incorrect with respect to the most selective schools as much can be garnered from an applicant's writing that may not be evident from the rest of the application.

Again, you’re talking out your a$$. The schools that rejected this kid don’t have any concerns about yield. They’re not going to reject an applicant out of fear they won’t come. In fact they’re on the record as not taking “demonstrated interest” into account.

Why do posters just make stuff up?

Yield is a concern and function of admissions. Expected yield, predicted yield, or just yield is calculated into highly selective schools admissions.

A concern about yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

None of the schools that didn’t accept that poster’s kid didn’t accept him because they were afraid he’d go elsewhere. They routinely reject applicants with those numbers and virtually every applicant they accept have them.

Not even the poster is suggesting that it was yield protection. That’s a contrived thing for parents to feel better about rejections: “they didn’t accept my kid because he’s too good for the school and won’t come.” How often do you think the schools that that poster listed - Harvard, MIT, Amherst, Williams as a legacy, etc - actually think that way?

They don’t.

Lower ranked top 25s, maybe. But not schools like those.

Again, yield is not the same as demonstrated interest.

Yield is part of every highly selective school's admission process.
because schools such as Stanford & Harvard enjoy 80% yields, they accept fewer applicant per available seat in each incoming class than does a school with a lower yield.

While I agree that OP's son most likely was not rejected out of concern for yield or yield protection by Stanford, Harvard, Yale, & MIT, he probably was a yield concern for Williams College--especially because he was a legacy applicant who did not apply ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL DCUM be like
I’ll pay for private school, hire tutors, pay for test prep, pay a college consultant, stalk DCUM’s college thread, and college confidential, advocate to have child assessed, they may need more time, inspect class rigor each year in HS, calculate potential gpa, spring for spring break trips to do campus tours, stalk college websites….
….but the college essay?
God no, didn’t even peek at it. Cuz now that’s where I draw the line.

Hahahahah

So true. But, of course, the same people who have been glued to this thread will now come back and say nooooo that’s not me I didn’t do any of those things I just happened to stumble upon a thread called “college essays” because I’m totally uninvolved in my kid’s college applications. Lol.

What’s really going on here is that they are all so competitive that they are irked by the possibility, even though there is no possibility, that what I did with my kids’ essay hurt their kids in the college application process. They are obsessed.

There is a difference between being informed and cheating. You want to set up some hyperbolic scenario that only fits a small few to justify your cheating. Ugh.

Yes, some people invest in lots of resources for their kids. We can't afford that, so I do try to stay informed to advise. But, neither advising nor enrichment equates to writing the essay. Yikes.

Sigh. I’m going to spell it out again. My kid came up with the topic on her own (no “brainstorming” with a paid “essay consultant” or college admissions counselor) and write a full first draft. Then I looked at it, edited the absolute bejesus out of it, and she decided which edits to accept. She didn’t accept all of them. So when I said I “basically wrote it” I was being a little sarcastic. I don’t think what I did made any difference other than to make me feel better and I’m quite certain it had no impact on my - or your - kid’s college admissions.

The only difference between me and many other posters is, ironically, my honesty. I am quite certain I had far less of a hand in my kids’ college applications than many of you.

There is no issue here. It is what colleges expect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essay is just marketing your kid. Whether you choose to out-source the marketing or handle it in-house is your choice.

Exactly. I write marketing copy for my day job, so I helped DS frame his story, polish the language, etc. He was a recruited athlete, so the essay was just window dressing.

Exactly. If colleges were really interested in making sure that essays were written entirely by the applicants without any outside influence, they would make them part of a timed exam. But they aren't interested in that - they could give a flying F what kind of writer a kid is or isn't.

Seriously? This is cheating. It is clear that this is the student's application and should be the student's work. Pretty sly to try to justify cheating because they did not make the app cheat proof.

The colleges don't see it as cheating. If they thought this was cheating, they would do something about it. It's easy to fix - make the essay part of an exam. They don't see it as cheating, so they don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essay is just marketing your kid. Whether you choose to out-source the marketing or handle it in-house is your choice.

Exactly. I write marketing copy for my day job, so I helped DS frame his story, polish the language, etc. He was a recruited athlete, so the essay was just window dressing.

Exactly. If colleges were really interested in making sure that essays were written entirely by the applicants without any outside influence, they would make them part of a timed exam. But they aren't interested in that - they could give a flying F what kind of writer a kid is or isn't.

Seriously? This is cheating. It is clear that this is the student's application and should be the student's work. Pretty sly to try to justify cheating because they did not make the app cheat proof.

The colleges don't see it as cheating. If they thought this was cheating, they would do something about it. It's easy to fix - make the essay part of an exam. They don't see it as cheating, so they don't care.

I mean I have been on college tours where the AC said -- make sure someone reads and reviews. That is just not cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essay is just marketing your kid. Whether you choose to out-source the marketing or handle it in-house is your choice.

Exactly. I write marketing copy for my day job, so I helped DS frame his story, polish the language, etc. He was a recruited athlete, so the essay was just window dressing.

Exactly. If colleges were really interested in making sure that essays were written entirely by the applicants without any outside influence, they would make them part of a timed exam. But they aren't interested in that - they could give a flying F what kind of writer a kid is or isn't.

Seriously? This is cheating. It is clear that this is the student's application and should be the student's work. Pretty sly to try to justify cheating because they did not make the app cheat proof.

The colleges don't see it as cheating. If they thought this was cheating, they would do something about it. It's easy to fix - make the essay part of an exam. They don't see it as cheating, so they don't care.

+1. Colleges also say they often can tell when an essay was heavily edited. But they DON’T say they reject students because of it. So, yeah, they don’t care.