Are the NESCACs worth the money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.collegeevaluator.com/rankings/highest-admission-yield/

Williams yield: #28, 52% yield (9% acceptance rate)
Emory yield: #92, 34% yield (13% acceptance rate)

Williams is more of a "first choice" than Emory.

Great information, but I think that you may have missed the point of my earlier post.

My earlier post focused just on the schools that Williams College listed as its overlap schools. If you think that 52% of those accepted to Williams and any of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford are selectig Williams,you are engaging in wishful thinking--not reality.

And yet the yield numbers suggest that a Willliams admit making that choice with respect to its overlap schools is significantly more likely than an Emory admit choosing Emory over its respective overlap schools (which are themselves less selective than the Williams overlap schools).

Williams is competing with other LACs not Unis, especially not HYP. Here are Williams peer schools. The only university was Trinity college. You're delusional.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are?cid2=gen_login_refresh&cid=gen_sign_in

PP listed HYP as Williams overlap schools, not me.

Williams College listed their overlap schools as: Amherst, Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Middlebury, Princeton, & Stanford.

Again, the source for this list is Williams College.

Amherst College lists their overlap schools as: Williams, Middlebury, Colby, Yale, Brown, Harvard, Princeton, & Stanford.

Where are you seeing this? It says Williams choose: Amherst, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Pomona, Dartmouth, Carleton, Haverford, Grinnell, Middlebury, Carleton

Amherst didn't choose any peers.

[Anonymous]

Do you like the fact that US News Best Colleges has separate rankings for National Universities & LACs ?

I do--especially because the WSJ/THE rankings combines their rankings of LACs and National Universities and Regionals into one ranking of 796 schools.

Actually, the good college evaluation systems list all undergrad degree granting institutions in a single list (whether ranked or unranked) -- WSJ, Forbes, Princeton, Fiske, Niche. If you're trying to assess the quality of an undergraduate education -- the education one acquires in freshman, sophomore, junior and senior years -- then whether it's at a four-year college or at a university with graduate level programs isn't a fundamental distinction (similar classrooms, similar curriculum, same degrees). It's just a personal choice or preference -- and for many students, one that matters less than the quality of the education involved. The widely-discredited US News rankings are the principal exception to this approach. US News probably never imagined that over time, the impact of their splitting these lists into universities and colleges would result in a perception among low-information readers that the educational experience at "national universities" is generally higher -- or to borrow a phrase you see a lot on this site, "more prestigious" -- than at "liberal arts colleges." Just another disservice USNews has done to higher education and to readers who don't have enough background to put its "findings" in proper context.

[Anonymous]

I think US News having separate lists from LACs and universities is at least partly a reflection of appreciating one size doesn’t fit all. Some feel the benefits of undergrad focus outweighs the benefits of size or proximity to grad research, and vice versa.

I think the justification for having separate lists has only increased with some of the revelations that have recently come to light about how universities likely calculate and report resource allocation differently than LACs.

http://math.columbia.edu/~thaddeus/ranking/investigation.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends. How much money do you have?

This is the golden question. People say I would never pay X for that or college A is not worth that. That may be true to them. But there are an awful lot of people for whom money is not a concern. Some just spend anything. Others are rich. Others saved in 529s like crazy so they have 500 plus per kid. So is it expensive to the family with the 20 million net worth? Or the family that has 500k in a 529? No. It is the cost of doing business or it is what was budgeted for. For others, yeah it costs a lot ad people should not be taking loans for undergrad if there is any way to avoid it, including going somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think US News having separate lists from LACs and universities is at least partly a reflection of appreciating one size doesn’t fit all. Some feel the benefits of undergrad focus outweighs the benefits of size or proximity to grad research, and vice versa.

I think the justification for having separate lists has only increased with some of the revelations that have recently come to light about how universities likely calculate and report resource allocation differently than LACs.

http://math.columbia.edu/~thaddeus/ranking/investigation.html

Yes. Columbia plays the ranking game in a less than ethical manner. Columbia is a great academic institution, but probably a bit overrated--although the WSJ/THE ranks Columbia at #16--not as a top 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.collegeevaluator.com/rankings/highest-admission-yield/

Williams yield: #28, 52% yield (9% acceptance rate)
Emory yield: #92, 34% yield (13% acceptance rate)

Williams is more of a "first choice" than Emory.

Great information, but I think that you may have missed the point of my earlier post.

My earlier post focused just on the schools that Williams College listed as its overlap schools. If you think that 52% of those accepted to Williams and any of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford are selectig Williams,you are engaging in wishful thinking--not reality.

And yet the yield numbers suggest that a Willliams admit making that choice with respect to its overlap schools is significantly more likely than an Emory admit choosing Emory over its respective overlap schools (which are themselves less selective than the Williams overlap schools).

Williams is competing with other LACs not Unis, especially not HYP. Here are Williams peer schools. The only university was Trinity college. You're delusional.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are?cid2=gen_login_refresh&cid=gen_sign_in

DP. Your paywalled link probably refers to Trinity College (another NESCAC, but since it is paywalled I can’t say) . Williams peer school are 100% the ivies and half the NESCAC and it only takes a look at the CDS stats for enrolled students to see it. Yes, there are students who will choose either a small school OR a large school with the definitive qualifiers being quality of education, faculty, placement and prestige.

It's free, not paywalled. You just need to sign up for a free account. Either way money of the ivys or any university for that matter say Williams is a peer, yet top 10 to top 50 school (s) say Emory is a peer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.collegeevaluator.com/rankings/highest-admission-yield/

Williams yield: #28, 52% yield (9% acceptance rate)
Emory yield: #92, 34% yield (13% acceptance rate)

Williams is more of a "first choice" than Emory.

Great information, but I think that you may have missed the point of my earlier post.

My earlier post focused just on the schools that Williams College listed as its overlap schools. If you think that 52% of those accepted to Williams and any of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford are selectig Williams,you are engaging in wishful thinking--not reality.

And yet the yield numbers suggest that a Willliams admit making that choice with respect to its overlap schools is significantly more likely than an Emory admit choosing Emory over its respective overlap schools (which are themselves less selective than the Williams overlap schools).

Williams is competing with other LACs not Unis, especially not HYP. Here are Williams peer schools. The only university was Trinity college. You're delusional.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are?cid2=gen_login_refresh&cid=gen_sign_in

DP. Your paywalled link probably refers to Trinity College (another NESCAC, but since it is paywalled I can’t say) . Williams peer school are 100% the ivies and half the NESCAC and it only takes a look at the CDS stats for enrolled students to see it. Yes, there are students who will choose either a small school OR a large school with the definitive qualifiers being quality of education, faculty, placement and prestige.

It's free, not paywalled. You just need to sign up for a free account. Either way money of the ivys or any university for that matter say Williams is a peer, yet top 10 to top 50 school (s) say Emory is a peer.

Huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think US News having separate lists from LACs and universities is at least partly a reflection of appreciating one size doesn’t fit all. Some feel the benefits of undergrad focus outweighs the benefits of size or proximity to grad research, and vice versa.

I think the justification for having separate lists has only increased with some of the revelations that have recently come to light about how universities likely calculate and report resource allocation differently than LACs.

http://math.columbia.edu/~thaddeus/ranking/investigation.html

Yes. Columbia plays the ranking game in a less than ethical manner. Columbia is a great academic institution, but probably a bit overrated--although the WSJ/THE ranks Columbia at #16--not as a top 10.

I personally think it’s more likely that other universities took similar liberties to Columbia when performing these calculations than Columbia was uniquely and deliberately unethical, but that’s just a hunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Econ majors at the top half of schools (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Colby, etc.) have strong connections to Wall Street compared to comparable schools

I went to Williams and Williams and Amherst have better reputations than Bowdoin, Midd, and Colby. It's not close!

[Anonymous]

Meh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.collegeevaluator.com/rankings/highest-admission-yield/

Williams yield: #28, 52% yield (9% acceptance rate)
Emory yield: #92, 34% yield (13% acceptance rate)

Williams is more of a "first choice" than Emory.

Great information, but I think that you may have missed the point of my earlier post.

My earlier post focused just on the schools that Williams College listed as its overlap schools. If you think that 52% of those accepted to Williams and any of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford are selectig Williams,you are engaging in wishful thinking--not reality.

And yet the yield numbers suggest that a Willliams admit making that choice with respect to its overlap schools is significantly more likely than an Emory admit choosing Emory over its respective overlap schools (which are themselves less selective than the Williams overlap schools).

Williams is competing with other LACs not Unis, especially not HYP. Here are Williams peer schools. The only university was Trinity college. You're delusional.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are?cid2=gen_login_refresh&cid=gen_sign_in

DP. Your paywalled link probably refers to Trinity College (another NESCAC, but since it is paywalled I can’t say) . Williams peer school are 100% the ivies and half the NESCAC and it only takes a look at the CDS stats for enrolled students to see it. Yes, there are students who will choose either a small school OR a large school with the definitive qualifiers being quality of education, faculty, placement and prestige.

It's free, not paywalled. You just need to sign up for a free account. Either way money of the ivys or any university for that matter say Williams is a peer, yet top 10 to top 50 school (s) say Emory is a peer.

What?

Also, Trinity College is not a university. It is a LAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Econ majors at the top half of schools (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Colby, etc.) have strong connections to Wall Street compared to comparable schools

I went to Williams and Williams and Amherst have better reputations than Bowdoin, Midd, and Colby. It's not close!

Eew.

If you are truly a Williams grad, please consider this having the opposite of the desired effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have been studies done regarding "cross-admits" and on college bound high school students preferences.
You can research the Parchment cross admit data on your own.

One other researcher on another website (Quora) shared a study--now dated--from 2004 of the preferences of college bound high school students. Again, this study is dated 2004 so take it as you like.

The college preferences of high school students:

1) Harvard
2) Yale
3) Stanford
4) Caltech
5) MIT
6) Princeton
7) Brown
8) Columbia
9) Amherst College
10) Dartmouth College
11) Wellesley College
12) Univ. of Penn.
13) Notre Dame
14) Swarthmore College
15) Cornell
16) Georgetown
17) Rice
18) Williams College
19) Duke
20) Virginia
21) Northwestern
22) Pomona College
23) UCal-Berkeley
24) Georgia Tech
25) Middlebury College
26) Wesleyan University
27) Univ. of Chicago
28) Johns Hopkins

Williams College is listed at #18. This is interesting because during this time period Williams College was consistently ranked at #1 or #2 Best LAC by US News.

I realize that this is not the same as an actual cross-admit preference data study, but it might be helpful to some.

Among LACS, #9 Amherst College was the top ranked preference followed by Wellesley College, then Swarthmore College, then Williams, Pomona, & Middlebury.

This is based on completely faulty and unreliable data, so as to be essentially meaningless. Even with the naked eye it's clear this list is inaccurate, whether in 2004 or in 2022.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been studies done regarding "cross-admits" and on college bound high school students preferences.
You can research the Parchment cross admit data on your own.

One other researcher on another website (Quora) shared a study--now dated--from 2004 of the preferences of college bound high school students. Again, this study is dated 2004 so take it as you like.

The college preferences of high school students:

1) Harvard
2) Yale
3) Stanford
4) Caltech
5) MIT
6) Princeton
7) Brown
8) Columbia
9) Amherst College
10) Dartmouth College
11) Wellesley College
12) Univ. of Penn.
13) Notre Dame
14) Swarthmore College
15) Cornell
16) Georgetown
17) Rice
18) Williams College
19) Duke
20) Virginia
21) Northwestern
22) Pomona College
23) UCal-Berkeley
24) Georgia Tech
25) Middlebury College
26) Wesleyan University
27) Univ. of Chicago
28) Johns Hopkins

Williams College is listed at #18. This is interesting because during this time period Williams College was consistently ranked at #1 or #2 Best LAC by US News.

I realize that this is not the same as an actual cross-admit preference data study, but it might be helpful to some.

Among LACS, #9 Amherst College was the top ranked preference followed by Wellesley College, then Swarthmore College, then Williams, Pomona, & Middlebury.

This is based on completely faulty and unreliable data, so as to be essentially meaningless. Even with the naked eye it's clear this list is inaccurate, whether in 2004 or in 2022.

Why don’t you tell us WHY you believe it is ‘completely faulty and unreliable’?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Econ majors at the top half of schools (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Colby, etc.) have strong connections to Wall Street compared to comparable schools

I went to Williams and Williams and Amherst have better reputations than Bowdoin, Midd, and Colby. It's not close!

Eew.

If you are truly a Williams grad, please consider this having the opposite of the desired effect.

Maybe you don’t belong at Williams.