Removing and Renaming Confederate Statues, Schools, Streets, etc: Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virginia has a long history of being a southern state and has a deep history with southern culture and ties to the confederacy. Northern Virginia in particular, with the Arlington Cemetery’s connection with Robert E Lee, whom led the Army of Northern Virginia, and the wide spread usage of confederates like Stonewall Jackson High School in PWCS and Robert E Lee High School in FCPS seems to have continually played a part in modern Virginia history throughout the state. Not to mention highways and streets dedicated to Confederates and segregationists like Robert E Lee and Harry Byrd still remain.

This unique attatchment to our history seems to be most or entirely prevalent in Virginia as opposed to DC or Maryland, and has never been a problem for the past century to half a century, through progressive movements and such. However, ever since the slain of George Floyd and the riots in 2020, there seems to have been a new attempt to pit the blame on the “monuments” that apparently glorize these views, and to radically erase them from history and forget about them once and for all. I seem to check google maps and am seemingly forced to learn new road names Like Langston Blvd in Arlington on a weekly basis. From my perspective, being a native of Fauquier county in southern country Virginia and spending lots of time in rural Loudoun and Prince William county, it’s a great change to what I’m used to.

Why the call for action now? Are we really suppose the blame people whom lived in an era where slavery and segregation was an unarguable stance that was unanimous among all politicians? What good does it really do, as it seemingly hasn’t seen a decrease in any sort of statistic that they intended to target. Do you support such action against these historical landmarks? Would love to know what the general consensus is, especially from other Virginians.

This telling completely leaves out the voices of the enslaved. Teach the history. Teach the horror of white supremacy.

+1
The slaves were Americans too (the idea of fractional citizens is ridiculous.) Tell the history and give voice to all Americans.

This has already been the case for many years. As for Confederate names and statues, many are happy to see them go, but it's only the low-hanging fruit when it comes to your agenda. You apparently want to win the Oppression Olympics, with the first-place prize the wholesale redistribution of private wealth to indulge your revenge fantasies.

Hate to tell you, but that is not going to happen any time soon. In fact, this country is about to take a sharper turn to the right starting with the fall 2022 elections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really digging the "hey at least they weren't Nazis" standard for keeping up statutes/street names.

+1000

Deep down these neo-Confederate apologists know they can't possibly defend the indefensible. Those statues and street names are obviously about white supremacy and racial hate, pure and simple. So they come up with bull$h!t arguments like "Southern heritage" and "at least we're not Hitler."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is shameful we ever had statues to those treasonous traitors. The reckoning is long overdue.

They weren't treasonous traitors. Stick to facts.

I don't mind taking down the statues but there's a lot of recent revisionist history from both sides.

Np How do you figure they weren't traitors? They wanted to secede from the US. That is the very definition. They took an oath to support the US and the constitution, not the southern states

That would be the case for Confederates who resigned from the US military to fight on behalf of their states.

For most Confederates, allegiance to their local towns and their states was much stronger than their allegiance to the United States, and they'd taken no oath to defend the US or the Constitution. The problem was that the states' rights they undertook to defend had as one of their principal tenets the right to own other human beings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virginia has a long history of being a southern state and has a deep history with southern culture and ties to the confederacy. Northern Virginia in particular, with the Arlington Cemetery’s connection with Robert E Lee, whom led the Army of Northern Virginia, and the wide spread usage of confederates like Stonewall Jackson High School in PWCS and Robert E Lee High School in FCPS seems to have continually played a part in modern Virginia history throughout the state. Not to mention highways and streets dedicated to Confederates and segregationists like Robert E Lee and Harry Byrd still remain.

This unique attatchment to our history seems to be most or entirely prevalent in Virginia as opposed to DC or Maryland, and has never been a problem for the past century to half a century, through progressive movements and such. However, ever since the slain of George Floyd and the riots in 2020, there seems to have been a new attempt to pit the blame on the “monuments” that apparently glorize these views, and to radically erase them from history and forget about them once and for all. I seem to check google maps and am seemingly forced to learn new road names Like Langston Blvd in Arlington on a weekly basis. From my perspective, being a native of Fauquier county in southern country Virginia and spending lots of time in rural Loudoun and Prince William county, it’s a great change to what I’m used to.

Why the call for action now? Are we really suppose the blame people whom lived in an era where slavery and segregation was an unarguable stance that was unanimous among all politicians? What good does it really do, as it seemingly hasn’t seen a decrease in any sort of statistic that they intended to target. Do you support such action against these historical landmarks? Would love to know what the general consensus is, especially from other Virginians.

This telling completely leaves out the voices of the enslaved. Teach the history. Teach the horror of white supremacy.

+1
The slaves were Americans too (the idea of fractional citizens is ridiculous.) Tell the history and give voice to all Americans.

This has already been the case for many years. As for Confederate names and statues, many are happy to see them go, but it's only the low-hanging fruit when it comes to your agenda. You apparently want to win the Oppression Olympics, with the first-place prize the wholesale redistribution of private wealth to indulge your revenge fantasies.

Hate to tell you, but that is not going to happen any time soon. In fact, this country is about to take a sharper turn to the right starting with the fall 2022 elections.

So not only are you in favor of keeping the racist statues of the past, but you're also against against any sort of racial justice or equity today. You're just a full-blown peach, aren't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia has a long history of being a southern state and has a deep history with southern culture and ties to the confederacy. Northern Virginia in particular, with the Arlington Cemetery’s connection with Robert E Lee, whom led the Army of Northern Virginia, and the wide spread usage of confederates like Stonewall Jackson High School in PWCS and Robert E Lee High School in FCPS seems to have continually played a part in modern Virginia history throughout the state. Not to mention highways and streets dedicated to Confederates and segregationists like Robert E Lee and Harry Byrd still remain.

This unique attatchment to our history seems to be most or entirely prevalent in Virginia as opposed to DC or Maryland, and has never been a problem for the past century to half a century, through progressive movements and such. However, ever since the slain of George Floyd and the riots in 2020, there seems to have been a new attempt to pit the blame on the “monuments” that apparently glorize these views, and to radically erase them from history and forget about them once and for all. I seem to check google maps and am seemingly forced to learn new road names Like Langston Blvd in Arlington on a weekly basis. From my perspective, being a native of Fauquier county in southern country Virginia and spending lots of time in rural Loudoun and Prince William county, it’s a great change to what I’m used to.

Why the call for action now? Are we really suppose the blame people whom lived in an era where slavery and segregation was an unarguable stance that was unanimous among all politicians? What good does it really do, as it seemingly hasn’t seen a decrease in any sort of statistic that they intended to target. Do you support such action against these historical landmarks? Would love to know what the general consensus is, especially from other Virginians.

The prepositional phrase there--what does it even mean?

You might try to pin down the time frame in which this "attachment to history" has never been a problem. Clearly any "problem" did not cease a century ago, since Loving v Virginia was decided 55 years and 34 days ago. And in any case, if there was a problem with this attachment before, isn't that in itself a good reason to work on severing that attachment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really digging the "hey at least they weren't Nazis" standard for keeping up statutes/street names.

+1000

Deep down these neo-Confederate apologists know they can't possibly defend the indefensible. Those statues and street names are obviously about white supremacy and racial hate, pure and simple. So they come up with bull$h!t arguments like "Southern heritage" and "at least we're not Hitler."

How odd, then, that you can't make arguments in favor of removing statues and renaming schools named after Confederates, which now garner wide support, without resorting to ill-advised comparisons. One guesses you won't be satisfied until you can freely necklace anyone with whom you disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is shameful we ever had statues to those treasonous traitors. The reckoning is long overdue.

They weren't treasonous traitors. Stick to facts.

I don't mind taking down the statues but there's a lot of recent revisionist history from both sides.

Np How do you figure they weren't traitors? They wanted to secede from the US. That is the very definition. They took an oath to support the US and the constitution, not the southern states

That would be the case for Confederates who resigned from the US military to fight on behalf of their states.

For most Confederates, allegiance to their local towns and their states was much stronger than their allegiance to the United States, and they'd taken no oath to defend the US or the Constitution. The problem was that the states' rights they undertook to defend had as one of their principal tenets the right to own other human beings.

Simply by being born in America do you owe allegiance to this country. No special oath required before treason kicks in. So every last Southern rebel who took up arms against their own government was a traitor.

But here you go again, splicing and dicing around some fake technicality to justify racial hate and oppression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virginia has a long history of being a southern state and has a deep history with southern culture and ties to the confederacy. Northern Virginia in particular, with the Arlington Cemetery’s connection with Robert E Lee, whom led the Army of Northern Virginia, and the wide spread usage of confederates like Stonewall Jackson High School in PWCS and Robert E Lee High School in FCPS seems to have continually played a part in modern Virginia history throughout the state. Not to mention highways and streets dedicated to Confederates and segregationists like Robert E Lee and Harry Byrd still remain.

This unique attatchment to our history seems to be most or entirely prevalent in Virginia as opposed to DC or Maryland, and has never been a problem for the past century to half a century, through progressive movements and such. However, ever since the slain of George Floyd and the riots in 2020, there seems to have been a new attempt to pit the blame on the “monuments” that apparently glorize these views, and to radically erase them from history and forget about them once and for all. I seem to check google maps and am seemingly forced to learn new road names Like Langston Blvd in Arlington on a weekly basis. From my perspective, being a native of Fauquier county in southern country Virginia and spending lots of time in rural Loudoun and Prince William county, it’s a great change to what I’m used to.

Why the call for action now? Are we really suppose the blame people whom lived in an era where slavery and segregation was an unarguable stance that was unanimous among all politicians? What good does it really do, as it seemingly hasn’t seen a decrease in any sort of statistic that they intended to target. Do you support such action against these historical landmarks? Would love to know what the general consensus is, especially from other Virginians.

This telling completely leaves out the voices of the enslaved. Teach the history. Teach the horror of white supremacy.

+1
The slaves were Americans too (the idea of fractional citizens is ridiculous.) Tell the history and give voice to all Americans.

This has already been the case for many years. As for Confederate names and statues, many are happy to see them go, but it's only the low-hanging fruit when it comes to your agenda. You apparently want to win the Oppression Olympics, with the first-place prize the wholesale redistribution of private wealth to indulge your revenge fantasies.

Hate to tell you, but that is not going to happen any time soon. In fact, this country is about to take a sharper turn to the right starting with the fall 2022 elections.

So not only are you in favor of keeping the racist statues of the past, but you're also against against any sort of racial justice or equity today. You're just a full-blown peach, aren't you?

Absolutely in favor of removing the statues, and absolutely opposed to your radical agenda of redistributing private wealth under the guise of "racial justice or equity."

Please feel free to advocate in favor of seizing private property in favor of reparations, etc. It will make it that much easier to ensure you people stay out of power, or are the ones that have to take the initiative to secede from the United States next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is shameful we ever had statues to those treasonous traitors. The reckoning is long overdue.

They weren't treasonous traitors. Stick to facts.

I don't mind taking down the statues but there's a lot of recent revisionist history from both sides.

Np How do you figure they weren't traitors? They wanted to secede from the US. That is the very definition. They took an oath to support the US and the constitution, not the southern states

That would be the case for Confederates who resigned from the US military to fight on behalf of their states.

For most Confederates, allegiance to their local towns and their states was much stronger than their allegiance to the United States, and they'd taken no oath to defend the US or the Constitution. The problem was that the states' rights they undertook to defend had as one of their principal tenets the right to own other human beings.

Right, and those are the folks (Like Robert E Lee) who are having their statues removed. Traitors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is shameful we ever had statues to those treasonous traitors. The reckoning is long overdue.

They weren't treasonous traitors. Stick to facts.

I don't mind taking down the statues but there's a lot of recent revisionist history from both sides.

Np How do you figure they weren't traitors? They wanted to secede from the US. That is the very definition. They took an oath to support the US and the constitution, not the southern states

That would be the case for Confederates who resigned from the US military to fight on behalf of their states.

For most Confederates, allegiance to their local towns and their states was much stronger than their allegiance to the United States, and they'd taken no oath to defend the US or the Constitution. The problem was that the states' rights they undertook to defend had as one of their principal tenets the right to own other human beings.

Simply by being born in America do you owe allegiance to this country. No special oath required before treason kicks in. So every last Southern rebel who took up arms against their own government was a traitor.

But here you go again, splicing and dicing around some fake technicality to justify racial hate and oppression.

More like responding to a prior post, which you now appear to admit was nothing but fiction and hyperbole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virginia has a long history of being a southern state and has a deep history with southern culture and ties to the confederacy. Northern Virginia in particular, with the Arlington Cemetery’s connection with Robert E Lee, whom led the Army of Northern Virginia, and the wide spread usage of confederates like Stonewall Jackson High School in PWCS and Robert E Lee High School in FCPS seems to have continually played a part in modern Virginia history throughout the state. Not to mention highways and streets dedicated to Confederates and segregationists like Robert E Lee and Harry Byrd still remain.

This unique attatchment to our history seems to be most or entirely prevalent in Virginia as opposed to DC or Maryland, and has never been a problem for the past century to half a century, through progressive movements and such. However, ever since the slain of George Floyd and the riots in 2020, there seems to have been a new attempt to pit the blame on the “monuments” that apparently glorize these views, and to radically erase them from history and forget about them once and for all. I seem to check google maps and am seemingly forced to learn new road names Like Langston Blvd in Arlington on a weekly basis. From my perspective, being a native of Fauquier county in southern country Virginia and spending lots of time in rural Loudoun and Prince William county, it’s a great change to what I’m used to.

Why the call for action now? Are we really suppose the blame people whom lived in an era where slavery and segregation was an unarguable stance that was unanimous among all politicians? What good does it really do, as it seemingly hasn’t seen a decrease in any sort of statistic that they intended to target. Do you support such action against these historical landmarks? Would love to know what the general consensus is, especially from other Virginians.

This telling completely leaves out the voices of the enslaved. Teach the history. Teach the horror of white supremacy.

+1
The slaves were Americans too (the idea of fractional citizens is ridiculous.) Tell the history and give voice to all Americans.

This has already been the case for many years. As for Confederate names and statues, many are happy to see them go, but it's only the low-hanging fruit when it comes to your agenda. You apparently want to win the Oppression Olympics, with the first-place prize the wholesale redistribution of private wealth to indulge your revenge fantasies.

Hate to tell you, but that is not going to happen any time soon. In fact, this country is about to take a sharper turn to the right starting with the fall 2022 elections.

This post is the point of the thread. Is this OP?

OP, you have mental problems. Many on the far right seem to.

[Anonymous]

The south lost and it will lose again, whether it's the actual South or the ideological South that is riddled throughout Michigan and Ohio etc. You will never win. Goodness and right will always prevail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is shameful we ever had statues to those treasonous traitors. The reckoning is long overdue.

They weren't treasonous traitors. Stick to facts.

I don't mind taking down the statues but there's a lot of recent revisionist history from both sides.

Np How do you figure they weren't traitors? They wanted to secede from the US. That is the very definition. They took an oath to support the US and the constitution, not the southern states

That would be the case for Confederates who resigned from the US military to fight on behalf of their states.

For most Confederates, allegiance to their local towns and their states was much stronger than their allegiance to the United States, and they'd taken no oath to defend the US or the Constitution. The problem was that the states' rights they undertook to defend had as one of their principal tenets the right to own other human beings.

Simply by being born in America do you owe allegiance to this country. No special oath required before treason kicks in. So every last Southern rebel who took up arms against their own government was a traitor.

But here you go again, splicing and dicing around some fake technicality to justify racial hate and oppression.

More like responding to a prior post, which you now appear to admit was nothing but fiction and hyperbole.

Since you seem to have comprehension issues, so I'll say it again: Every last Southern rebel was a traitor to his country. No honor in that. And after these racist traitors lost their bloody illegal war, there was a massive PR campaign by the KKK and other racist organizations to distort and reimagine that racial terror as "heritage" and "honor." And that's why we have all those stupid racist statues and street names now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is shameful we ever had statues to those treasonous traitors. The reckoning is long overdue.

They weren't treasonous traitors. Stick to facts.

I don't mind taking down the statues but there's a lot of recent revisionist history from both sides.

Np How do you figure they weren't traitors? They wanted to secede from the US. That is the very definition. They took an oath to support the US and the constitution, not the southern states

That would be the case for Confederates who resigned from the US military to fight on behalf of their states.

For most Confederates, allegiance to their local towns and their states was much stronger than their allegiance to the United States, and they'd taken no oath to defend the US or the Constitution. The problem was that the states' rights they undertook to defend had as one of their principal tenets the right to own other human beings.

Nobody names streets or has statues of the confererates you are talking about. We are talking about removing the honorific signs of the trators who did take the oath.

Btw, just because the confederates thought they were supporting their state does not mean they were also not being traitors tp the US. Same reason those storming the capital can't argue that they didn't know either.

[Anonymous]

Because we don't need to honor people who committed treason in defense of slavery, and those statues were put up as part of backlashes against civil rights in the 1920s and 1950s/60s.