If DC public charters are created to help the underprivileged is it bad to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the fact that you all believe that your child will not do well if they are with low SES kids is a form of prejudice in itself. There are schools actually bridging the gap AND keeping your mostly average kids thriving, as well as the few gifted children engaged and learning.

The mark of a good school is not simply ‘how many poor, middle class, and upper middle class kids are there’ It’s how are ALL the kids doing, what programs do they have, the school culture, etc.

To be quite honest it’s likely your child is average, ‘the best’ light skin school won’t change that. Choose what you like but please don’t act like you’re doing it to simply further your child, you’re doing it due to prejudice and sometimes classism or racism.

Oh someone else playing the race card again. So tiresome. My DC scores 98% on standardized exams so no DC is not average at best and put in a school where the majority of kids are performing way below grade level, it will be a cake walk for him. He just needs to show up to get an A. That will make him lazy and not instill any good work ethics because he doesn’t need to work at all. Also DCPS sure isn’t bridging the gap and that gap hasn’t moved much at all.

BTW here you go a report from FCPS. 20% FARMS is your tipping point.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

Race wasn’t mentioned as the primary point but ok, seems you’re sensitive to that.
Also you did not read or unfortunately did not understand. Again, your kid isn’t outstanding, most people on this forum lie because the people with truly academically outstanding kids don’t have to justify and wouldn’t respond to this specific comment.


Also the statement was not DCPS, the majority of DCPS are not bringing the gap to a close. The point is some are and the mark of a good school is not how many whites there are, since you so obviously think light skin only means white. Even though on average Asian children do better than white ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the fact that you all believe that your child will not do well if they are with low SES kids is a form of prejudice in itself. There are schools actually bridging the gap AND keeping your mostly average kids thriving, as well as the few gifted children engaged and learning.

The mark of a good school is not simply ‘how many poor, middle class, and upper middle class kids are there’ It’s how are ALL the kids doing, what programs do they have, the school culture, etc.

To be quite honest it’s likely your child is average, ‘the best’ light skin school won’t change that. Choose what you like but please don’t act like you’re doing it to simply further your child, you’re doing it due to prejudice and sometimes classism or racism.

Oh someone else playing the race card again. So tiresome. My DC scores 98% on standardized exams so no DC is not average at best and put in a school where the majority of kids are performing way below grade level, it will be a cake walk for him. He just needs to show up to get an A. That will make him lazy and not instill any good work ethics because he doesn’t need to work at all. Also DCPS sure isn’t bridging the gap and that gap hasn’t moved much at all.

BTW here you go a report from FCPS. 20% FARMS is your tipping point.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

Race wasn’t mentioned as the primary point but ok, seems you’re sensitive to that.
Also you did not read or unfortunately did not understand. Again, your kid isn’t outstanding, most people on this forum lie because the people with truly academically outstanding kids don’t have to justify and wouldn’t respond to this specific comment.


Also the statement was not DCPS, the majority of DCPS are not bringing the gap to a close. The point is some are and the mark of a good school is not how many whites there are, since you so obviously think light skin only means white. Even though on average Asian children do better than white ones.

You were the one calling people racist for not sending their kid to a low SES school. But of course you knew that and in Dc poverty does correlate with race. And yes, my kid scored 98%. Why don’t you name some schools in DC who has bridge the gap?

BTW I’m not white either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it’s okay. But, be cognizant of the fact that being an only anything is hard. Being a minority of one at a school is much harder than being one of even a small group. If your child will actually be the only white student, is that a good social environment for him or her?

Why is it not a good social environment. African Americans, Latinos and Asians frequently experience being the only one in work environments, academics and social settings. As a person of color this has been my reality quite frequently. I am so confused by this way of thinking. Its ridiculous. This is why so many White families have decided to take their children out of DCPCS schools by Kindergarten they don't want to be the only ones left in the upper grades. You can say it is about test scores but it is deeper than that. If a school has majority at risk students (English as a Second Lang, Special education, homeless, lower SES) in the upper testing grades then research indicates the test scores will be lower. Do not assume that the school is not as good if the test scores are low that is flawed thinking. Teachers in title one schools can out teach many teachers in other schools from what I have experienced in my over 20 years in the education system. Many white parents do not want their children in a school or class with all minority students. They may not admit it but it is true. I wish people would just be honest and begin to address their biases.

Exactly! Thank you. Like you I have spent a life time in academic and work settings as the only POC. Just be honest about your racism people!

[Anonymous]

20% FARMs is definitely not our tipping point. My kid attends a DCPS program with an at-risk rate of 5%. She loves school, but has been coasting like crazy since school returned in person despite getting all 4s on her report card. We supplement in various ways, but she fights the challenge. We got into BASIS for 5th grade a few weeks ago but aren't impressed enough with the facilities or leadership to bother. Without formal GT programs, a good many DC public students aren't challenged, period.

[Anonymous]

Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

So look it's actually not about race. It's about having a high performing cohort period

Why would anyone send their kid to a school where a majority of kids are below grade level that's common sense

Now there is a racial component, no one is comfortable if they are a minority aka if there aren't at least 10-20% of kids that look like your kid folks are going to feel out of place, especially if the other 80-90% are all one race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the fact that you all believe that your child will not do well if they are with low SES kids is a form of prejudice in itself. There are schools actually bridging the gap AND keeping your mostly average kids thriving, as well as the few gifted children engaged and learning.

The mark of a good school is not simply ‘how many poor, middle class, and upper middle class kids are there’ It’s how are ALL the kids doing, what programs do they have, the school culture, etc.

To be quite honest it’s likely your child is average, ‘the best’ light skin school won’t change that. Choose what you like but please don’t act like you’re doing it to simply further your child, you’re doing it due to prejudice and sometimes classism or racism.

Name one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

So look it's actually not about race. It's about having a high performing cohort period

Why would anyone send their kid to a school where a majority of kids are below grade level that's common sense

Now there is a racial component, no one is comfortable if they are a minority aka if there aren't at least 10-20% of kids that look like your kid folks are going to feel out of place, especially if the other 80-90% are all one race.

In DC it becomes about race because who are the lower SES students? What race do they belong to? It all goes hand and hand. Even myself as a middle class education African American face discrimination because it is assumed that because of my race I am low income. Its called differentiation in the classroom that means providing students how are on and above level with what they need and providing lower level students with what they need. This is the expectation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

So look it's actually not about race. It's about having a high performing cohort period

Why would anyone send their kid to a school where a majority of kids are below grade level that's common sense

Now there is a racial component, no one is comfortable if they are a minority aka if there aren't at least 10-20% of kids that look like your kid folks are going to feel out of place, especially if the other 80-90% are all one race.

Wow that sounds like such a ridiculous white centric idea. As person of color I can't think about not sending my child some where because 20% of the students are not of the same race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

So look it's actually not about race. It's about having a high performing cohort period

Why would anyone send their kid to a school where a majority of kids are below grade level that's common sense

Now there is a racial component, no one is comfortable if they are a minority aka if there aren't at least 10-20% of kids that look like your kid folks are going to feel out of place, especially if the other 80-90% are all one race.

Wow that sounds like such a ridiculous white centric idea. As person of color I can't think about not sending my child some where because 20% of the students are not of the same race.

Yeah, I'm black and unaware of any black folks -- especially high-SES types -- that have 20% AA as a minimum threshold for anything. That is completely unrealistic, especially for a "high-performing" school, sadly. Now, I grant that some/many white folks might have such a minimum threshold for the percentage of white kids, but that's because whiteness is often presumed to be normal or baseline and they don't have much experience being in the minority, or even a mere plurality in some cases. If I or my parents had had that sort of attitude, I wouldn't have taken a single honors or AP class in high school, since I was the ONLY black male (and often the only black student) in those classes for my entire high school career. This type of thing is just life for POC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

So look it's actually not about race. It's about having a high performing cohort period

Why would anyone send their kid to a school where a majority of kids are below grade level that's common sense

Now there is a racial component, no one is comfortable if they are a minority aka if there aren't at least 10-20% of kids that look like your kid folks are going to feel out of place, especially if the other 80-90% are all one race.

Wow that sounds like such a ridiculous white centric idea. As person of color I can't think about not sending my child some where because 20% of the students are not of the same race.

Yeah, I'm black and unaware of any black folks -- especially high-SES types -- that have 20% AA as a minimum threshold for anything. That is completely unrealistic, especially for a "high-performing" school, sadly. Now, I grant that some/many white folks might have such a minimum threshold for the percentage of white kids, but that's because whiteness is often presumed to be normal or baseline and they don't have much experience being in the minority, or even a mere plurality in some cases. If I or my parents had had that sort of attitude, I wouldn't have taken a single honors or AP class in high school, since I was the ONLY black male (and often the only black student) in those classes for my entire high school career. This type of thing is just life for POC.

I agree with that I'm just talking about human nature in general. Think about where you choose to live for example or who your friend group is etc. Why do more white kids go to Walls and more black kids go to Banneker

We are still talking about the same thing. Look the facts are most of DCPS schools suck especially at the middle and high school level, that's why charters and privates and application schools are so popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly the fact that you all believe that your child will not do well if they are with low SES kids is a form of prejudice in itself. There are schools actually bridging the gap AND keeping your mostly average kids thriving, as well as the few gifted children engaged and learning.

The mark of a good school is not simply ‘how many poor, middle class, and upper middle class kids are there’ It’s how are ALL the kids doing, what programs do they have, the school culture, etc.

To be quite honest it’s likely your child is average, ‘the best’ light skin school won’t change that. Choose what you like but please don’t act like you’re doing it to simply further your child, you’re doing it due to prejudice and sometimes classism or racism.

Name one.

+1,000,000 more white liberal magical thinking. Look, once your kids get older you will get a clue and flee to charters privates or leave the city like every single MC+ family group who cares about education white and black, brown and asian too

[Anonymous]

and we have reached the "flee to charters privates or leave the city" part of the conversation, our community's own version of Godwin's Law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

So look it's actually not about race. It's about having a high performing cohort period

Why would anyone send their kid to a school where a majority of kids are below grade level that's common sense

Now there is a racial component, no one is comfortable if they are a minority aka if there aren't at least 10-20% of kids that look like your kid folks are going to feel out of place, especially if the other 80-90% are all one race.

Wow that sounds like such a ridiculous white centric idea. As person of color I can't think about not sending my child some where because 20% of the students are not of the same race.

Yeah, I'm black and unaware of any black folks -- especially high-SES types -- that have 20% AA as a minimum threshold for anything. That is completely unrealistic, especially for a "high-performing" school, sadly. Now, I grant that some/many white folks might have such a minimum threshold for the percentage of white kids, but that's because whiteness is often presumed to be normal or baseline and they don't have much experience being in the minority, or even a mere plurality in some cases. If I or my parents had had that sort of attitude, I wouldn't have taken a single honors or AP class in high school, since I was the ONLY black male (and often the only black student) in those classes for my entire high school career. This type of thing is just life for POC.

I agree with that I'm just talking about human nature in general. Think about where you choose to live for example or who your friend group is etc. Why do more white kids go to Walls and more black kids go to Banneker

We are still talking about the same thing. Look the facts are most of DCPS schools suck especially at the middle and high school level, that's why charters and privates and application schools are so popular.

Well, it might be human nature to seek out the familiar or commonality, which may include race. But I'd offer this caution: black folks are keen on distinctions between black folks. So what you might see as a population of black kids, blacks folks might see a population of low-income black kids, or middle-class black kids, country folks, or "those" kinds of people versus people like "us." So something that you might characterize as "black" in terms of its defining characteristic, probably isn't something that would strike me (or other black folks) as uniquely "black" or necessarily associated with "blackness." And what you might observe as an affinity between "black" folks is really an affinity between certain types of black folks, that wouldn't otherwise hold as between a different set of black folks.

I assume there is a similar dynamic with other races, but perhaps less so among whites in DC who are almost invariably upper-middle-class and college-educated* and thus culturally similar in many ways.

*and in that sense culturally distinct from the vast majority of white Americans!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real racist ideas are present in every aspect
Of our society particularly in education. The reason as a educated. Black family we would hesitate to send out
child to lower SES mostly black school is because those teaching them historically have had lower expectations for our children based on race. But I am going to send my child to a school that is title one mostly black because they are working to address through ani-racist training and they have made significant gains in their scores as well. I work in a title one school is some of the reasons our students do not do well is because teachers have their own notions about their ability levels based on their SES levels.

So look it's actually not about race. It's about having a high performing cohort period

Why would anyone send their kid to a school where a majority of kids are below grade level that's common sense

Now there is a racial component, no one is comfortable if they are a minority aka if there aren't at least 10-20% of kids that look like your kid folks are going to feel out of place, especially if the other 80-90% are all one race.

Wow that sounds like such a ridiculous white centric idea. As person of color I can't think about not sending my child some where because 20% of the students are not of the same race.

Yeah, I'm black and unaware of any black folks -- especially high-SES types -- that have 20% AA as a minimum threshold for anything. That is completely unrealistic, especially for a "high-performing" school, sadly. Now, I grant that some/many white folks might have such a minimum threshold for the percentage of white kids, but that's because whiteness is often presumed to be normal or baseline and they don't have much experience being in the minority, or even a mere plurality in some cases. If I or my parents had had that sort of attitude, I wouldn't have taken a single honors or AP class in high school, since I was the ONLY black male (and often the only black student) in those classes for my entire high school career. This type of thing is just life for POC.

I agree with that I'm just talking about human nature in general. Think about where you choose to live for example or who your friend group is etc. Why do more white kids go to Walls and more black kids go to Banneker

We are still talking about the same thing. Look the facts are most of DCPS schools suck especially at the middle and high school level, that's why charters and privates and application schools are so popular.

Well, it might be human nature to seek out the familiar or commonality, which may include race. But I'd offer this caution: black folks are keen on distinctions between black folks. So what you might see as a population of black kids, blacks folks might see a population of low-income black kids, or middle-class black kids, country folks, or "those" kinds of people versus people like "us." So something that you might characterize as "black" in terms of its defining characteristic, probably isn't something that would strike me (or other black folks) as uniquely "black" or necessarily associated with "blackness." And what you might observe as an affinity between "black" folks is really an affinity between certain types of black folks, that wouldn't otherwise hold as between a different set of black folks.

I assume there is a similar dynamic with other races, but perhaps less so among whites in DC who are almost invariably upper-middle-class and college-educated* and thus culturally similar in many ways.

*and in that sense culturally distinct from the vast majority of white Americans!

I see your point but it doesn't really undercut the underlying argument, which is that most people (of any race) would be uncomfortable with their child being the only person of their race or ethnicity in a classroom. And I see what you're saying, and it's not inconsistent -- people also might not want their kids to be the only kid of their socioeconomic class in the room, or the only one from a specific background. Those dynamics are present everywhere. People want their kids to fit in to at least some degree.

Now "uncomfortable" doesn't mean "wouldn't allow". I don't know if it was you upthread or not, but there are lots of situations where POC, specifically, choose to make their kid the "only" in order to take advantage of opportunities that are not available at schools with more POC students. Like you are not going to keep your kid out of an AP class where he will be the only black kid if the alternative is "no AP class". People get that.

Where it gets complicated is when the options are not AP versus no AP. And when you mix the race and class and cultural elements. Lots of black parents in DC choose Banneker over Wilson or Walls specifically because it enables their kids to access the same educational opportunities, but in a majority black environment. There are black families who would send kids to some Title 1 schools but not others, because there are a threshold number of MC black families at one that makes them feel more confident in what the school can offer their kid. And yes, I have encountered black families who have chosen not to lottery for certain charters because the lack of black students at the school made them wonder if their family would be welcome (specifically, SWS, which is both whiter than many nearby schools and also tends to draw not only from UMC families but also families with specific characteristics, like a SAHP, to sustain a certain type of school environment). This doesn't mean these families are choosing an inferior school. Just a different one.

So to me, the PP's argument that it is normal for people to be uncomfortable with their kid being an "only" in their school environment. The real questions are whether you have alternatives that are as good (like Banneker) and what exactly you give up by taking your kid out of that environment. I used to think it was crazy that white families would avoid some really good DCPS schools to send their kids to charter schools that are mostly just whiter but no better academically. But now I view it a bit more holistically. I think often those families are looking for community, and they are willing to give up some of the benefits of their IB DCPS to get it. It's not the choice I'd make, but I can see how it would make sense for some people. I no longer view it as an inherently racist choice. And as we get closer to MS and our own options shrink, I can see us making a similar choice for MS or HS because our alternatives aren't as good. It all comes down to what your choices are.