Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
There are very few kids like this who aren't going to be challenged in any public school in the DMV area, and so your options are fundamentally different and nearly unique. There are many more kids who are at grade level or a year or two ahead and who don't have impossible-to-meet academic needs, they just have needs that aren't going to be met by their DCPS or charter options. I give my kids challenging work outside of school as well, but I think most parents if given the option would prefer for school to be teaching their kids.
Yes — of course the sort of open secret is that you can’t really rely on most public schools (even the “good” ones) to get kids where they need to be, at least not to the standard that many UMC families set/expect. All of our friend in the close in MD and VA public schools supplement like crazy, either on their own or by outsourcing to an AoPS, RSM, Kumon, etc. You’d think that these supposed “good” public schools (i.e, 9-10 on GS) full of well educated high SES families could provide an academic product sufficient obviate the need for further supplementing. But they don’t. And families understand that the kids are capable of so much more beyond the school curriculum, a curriculum, by the way, that would ostensibly satisfy the folks that find the rigor of the unmentionable HRCS to be lacking. My take: it’s all lacking (including the elem G&T programs) and I’d likely be doing the same thing in terms of supplementing even if we were at a “good” school that got the differentiation thing right.
This toxic striver culture is a choice that your friends are making, not a necessity. The standard "advanced" math track in MCPS puts kids in AP Calculus in 11th grade. That is plenty accelerated for all but the most special of snowflake outliers. UMC families are supplementing because they've locked themselves in an arms race with their neighbors and with the school district. Timmy goes to AoPS, so Abdul's parents think he needs to go too. Then Chloe's parents get nervous and enroll her in Russian Math. Then all of the parents go to the school district and complain that their child isn't sufficiently challenged, since the families are paying $500/month to have the kids accelerated beyond grade level. Around and around it goes, all in pursuit of a vanishingly small number of HPYS slots.
It's not healthy for the kids, nor is it at all necessary.
I understand that. That's why I'm content with staying at our (much-derided by some) charter in NE DC rather than moving to the close-in burbs or upper NW "for the schools." We are comfortable with our ability to supplement with the aid of a variety of resources (including AoPS/Beast Academy online, JHU-CTY), but without the gaze (or more likely the perceived gaze) of Abdul's, Chloe's, and Timmy's parents and the attendant keep-up culture, which of course does not exist at our charter, thankfully.
Bottom line, we are confident that our kids will be well-prepared for private middle school.
Stay at your school. Your kid will in the top of the class and get excellent college acceptances coming from such a poor school environment. Then you can laugh at all the strivers in the good schools.
Some other points. The only people that care about this topic are clueless white liberals. Folks of every other race and every income are trying to do what's best for their kids you should too.
No one is comfortable if their race is less than 20% at a school
Charters are used by everyone to try and climb up a rung it's true for UMC folks on capital hill, it's true for working class folks EOTR who actually care and rightfully fight tooth and nail to get out of the abysmal stats of DCPS talking less than 10% of kids on grade level in every single middle and high school. Heck most high schools across DC are terrible with the same stats. That's why its Banneker Walls Wilson private or move at the high school level.
Bolded above is so true.
Our DC is mixed asian/white but looks predominantly white. No guilt at all, could care less that scores are low because of demographics or scores are improving when the overwhelming majority of kids are below grade level.
I’m looking out for what’s best for my kid. I’m not interested in having my above grade level kid be in a majority black poorly performing school when we have options. I’m not interested in him being in the majority in a poorly performing white school either.
I want him in a high performing school with a cohort of kids who are ready to learn, motivated, and push him to do well. He is not self motivated enough to do well by himself. If this environment is diverse, great. If not, no problem, we have enough diverse friends.
The majority of parents are going to do what’s best for their kid. Full stop. If you are the few that want to prioritize what’s best for society over your kid, feel free to take the risk.
Pretty much. I’m black, have blacks friend and family across the SES spectrum, and have never heard any of them agonize over trying to place their kids in the best academic situation possible. Nor have I heard them complain about or judge the school choices of non-black folks. Indeed, I wager most would find it odd to ridiculous that someone, of whatever race, would affirmatively opt for a “lesser school situation out of some sense of social obligation or guilt. Just do what you think is best for your kids school-wise and forget about. You don’t need anyone’s permission. And to the extent you have broader concerns about then educational landscape, sending your kid to a low performing school won’t make a shred of difference.
At any rate, high-performing black kids are at much greater risk when surrounded by low-performing black kids versus similarly-situated whites/Asians!! High SES black families have no qualms about avoiding that. Nor should anyone else.
Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Can we please stay focused on the UMC white people! I mean, jeez, after hundreds of years of it being all about everyone else when will white people with means finally get the attention they so desire?
-Signed a white person who is mortified by PP
It is okay for white people in DC to want to discuss these thorny school choice issues. Asking that the conversation stay focused on this issue is different than asking that ALL conversations about public school in DC focus on white people.
One of the reasons this problem exists is because it is taboo for white people in DC to openly discuss issues like discomfort with being the only white family in a class or grade. People will say it in hush tones and behind closed doors, but there's shame in it, like you are saying something deeply selfish or even racist. There are so many elephant in this room that don't get addressed because white people don't want to be seen as insensitive or supporting white supremacy. But it would be better to just get it out and address it head on. It's not as though staying quiet about it solves the problem -- it just means that people move schools and then lie about why they did it. "Oh this school is more convenient for our commute" or whatever. It would be better if we just talked about tit openly to figure out if there is a way to address it.
I have a white kid in a predominantly black DCPS and we love the school but the issue of her being the only white kid in many settings comes up a lot. We are fielding her questions and concerns the best we can but let me tell you, it's not easy because we have to both support her for the situation she is currently in (as a racial minority) while also thinking about teaching her about white supremacy, a concept that currently makes little to no sense to her because she spend a lot of her time in a majority-black environment where she sometimes feels like the odd kid out. It's threading a weird needle and there is very little guidance for this specific situation.
I talk about this stuff because I'm trying to figure it out. I have to talk to other white people about it because they are the only ones who are in the same situation and who might understand the competing priorities. Telling us to be quiet and stop centering ourselves in a conversation that we started about our experience is weird. We aren't hijacking a conversation among POC about school equity. We're trying to have a conversation about how we, as white people, can support school equity while also fulfilling our parental duty to support our own kids academically and socially.
If you don't have useful information or advice, you are not required to participate.
No, I feel you. It is HARD out there for a white UMC family. Stay strong my white sistah and fight the good fight. You will get your 40 acres and a mule if you keep on keeping on.
The decision so many people have made to consider all white women the enemy, even when trying to engage honestly with issues of race and not hoard resources or perpetuate white supremacy, is so freaking weird to me. As a white woman, if you show any feelings at all when discussing these issues, even just mild frustration or confusion, you will get accused by someone of centering yourself, “white tears” or whatever.
The reason a LOT of progressive who’re women just don’t talk about any of this anymore is that it’s easier to be quiet than to risk putting a foot wrong. Is that the goal? Silence from white women on the topic of equity and education? Not sure that’s going to work out how you hope.
Black man here and totally agree with this. It's almost like people (including some white women themselves!) are chomping at the bit the "Karen-ize" white women for everything under the sun. It really isn't helpful. When I hear this it makes me feel terribly uncomfortable. I get the sense that some folks are putting on an act for my ostensible benefit. What a mess. Almost makes me hate everyone.
Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
There are very few kids like this who aren't going to be challenged in any public school in the DMV area, and so your options are fundamentally different and nearly unique. There are many more kids who are at grade level or a year or two ahead and who don't have impossible-to-meet academic needs, they just have needs that aren't going to be met by their DCPS or charter options. I give my kids challenging work outside of school as well, but I think most parents if given the option would prefer for school to be teaching their kids.
Yes — of course the sort of open secret is that you can’t really rely on most public schools (even the “good” ones) to get kids where they need to be, at least not to the standard that many UMC families set/expect. All of our friend in the close in MD and VA public schools supplement like crazy, either on their own or by outsourcing to an AoPS, RSM, Kumon, etc. You’d think that these supposed “good” public schools (i.e, 9-10 on GS) full of well educated high SES families could provide an academic product sufficient obviate the need for further supplementing. But they don’t. And families understand that the kids are capable of so much more beyond the school curriculum, a curriculum, by the way, that would ostensibly satisfy the folks that find the rigor of the unmentionable HRCS to be lacking. My take: it’s all lacking (including the elem G&T programs) and I’d likely be doing the same thing in terms of supplementing even if we were at a “good” school that got the differentiation thing right.
This toxic striver culture is a choice that your friends are making, not a necessity. The standard "advanced" math track in MCPS puts kids in AP Calculus in 11th grade. That is plenty accelerated for all but the most special of snowflake outliers. UMC families are supplementing because they've locked themselves in an arms race with their neighbors and with the school district. Timmy goes to AoPS, so Abdul's parents think he needs to go too. Then Chloe's parents get nervous and enroll her in Russian Math. Then all of the parents go to the school district and complain that their child isn't sufficiently challenged, since the families are paying $500/month to have the kids accelerated beyond grade level. Around and around it goes, all in pursuit of a vanishingly small number of HPYS slots.
It's not healthy for the kids, nor is it at all necessary.
I understand that. That's why I'm content with staying at our (much-derided by some) charter in NE DC rather than moving to the close-in burbs or upper NW "for the schools." We are comfortable with our ability to supplement with the aid of a variety of resources (including AoPS/Beast Academy online, JHU-CTY), but without the gaze (or more likely the perceived gaze) of Abdul's, Chloe's, and Timmy's parents and the attendant keep-up culture, which of course does not exist at our charter, thankfully.
Bottom line, we are confident that our kids will be well-prepared for private middle school.
Stay at your school. Your kid will in the top of the class and get excellent college acceptances coming from such a poor school environment. Then you can laugh at all the strivers in the good schools.
Some other points. The only people that care about this topic are clueless white liberals. Folks of every other race and every income are trying to do what's best for their kids you should too.
No one is comfortable if their race is less than 20% at a school
Charters are used by everyone to try and climb up a rung it's true for UMC folks on capital hill, it's true for working class folks EOTR who actually care and rightfully fight tooth and nail to get out of the abysmal stats of DCPS talking less than 10% of kids on grade level in every single middle and high school. Heck most high schools across DC are terrible with the same stats. That's why its Banneker Walls Wilson private or move at the high school level.
Bolded above is so true.
Our DC is mixed asian/white but looks predominantly white. No guilt at all, could care less that scores are low because of demographics or scores are improving when the overwhelming majority of kids are below grade level.
I’m looking out for what’s best for my kid. I’m not interested in having my above grade level kid be in a majority black poorly performing school when we have options. I’m not interested in him being in the majority in a poorly performing white school either.
I want him in a high performing school with a cohort of kids who are ready to learn, motivated, and push him to do well. He is not self motivated enough to do well by himself. If this environment is diverse, great. If not, no problem, we have enough diverse friends.
The majority of parents are going to do what’s best for their kid. Full stop. If you are the few that want to prioritize what’s best for society over your kid, feel free to take the risk.
Pretty much. I’m black, have blacks friend and family across the SES spectrum, and have never heard any of them agonize over trying to place their kids in the best academic situation possible. Nor have I heard them complain about or judge the school choices of non-black folks. Indeed, I wager most would find it odd to ridiculous that someone, of whatever race, would affirmatively opt for a “lesser school situation out of some sense of social obligation or guilt. Just do what you think is best for your kids school-wise and forget about. You don’t need anyone’s permission. And to the extent you have broader concerns about then educational landscape, sending your kid to a low performing school won’t make a shred of difference.
At any rate, high-performing black kids are at much greater risk when surrounded by low-performing black kids versus similarly-situated whites/Asians!! High SES black families have no qualms about avoiding that. Nor should anyone else.
Really? That is not my experience at all.
You've heard black folks express guilt over trying to put their kids in the best possible school situation??? Like, "we have the means and access to put Cedric in a high-performing school that would be a great fit for him academically, but we have a racial duty to send him to a low-performing majority-black school where he can uplift our people."
Other than Nikole Hannah-Jones, ain't hardly any black foldk singing that song.
Anonymous wrote:why does the majority black part modify the poorly performing part in the bolded sentence above?
Not PP who posted that but I think that's the point. I took their post to mean that the school was poorly performing...and happened to also be majority black.
Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
There are very few kids like this who aren't going to be challenged in any public school in the DMV area, and so your options are fundamentally different and nearly unique. There are many more kids who are at grade level or a year or two ahead and who don't have impossible-to-meet academic needs, they just have needs that aren't going to be met by their DCPS or charter options. I give my kids challenging work outside of school as well, but I think most parents if given the option would prefer for school to be teaching their kids.
Yes — of course the sort of open secret is that you can’t really rely on most public schools (even the “good” ones) to get kids where they need to be, at least not to the standard that many UMC families set/expect. All of our friend in the close in MD and VA public schools supplement like crazy, either on their own or by outsourcing to an AoPS, RSM, Kumon, etc. You’d think that these supposed “good” public schools (i.e, 9-10 on GS) full of well educated high SES families could provide an academic product sufficient obviate the need for further supplementing. But they don’t. And families understand that the kids are capable of so much more beyond the school curriculum, a curriculum, by the way, that would ostensibly satisfy the folks that find the rigor of the unmentionable HRCS to be lacking. My take: it’s all lacking (including the elem G&T programs) and I’d likely be doing the same thing in terms of supplementing even if we were at a “good” school that got the differentiation thing right.
This toxic striver culture is a choice that your friends are making, not a necessity. The standard "advanced" math track in MCPS puts kids in AP Calculus in 11th grade. That is plenty accelerated for all but the most special of snowflake outliers. UMC families are supplementing because they've locked themselves in an arms race with their neighbors and with the school district. Timmy goes to AoPS, so Abdul's parents think he needs to go too. Then Chloe's parents get nervous and enroll her in Russian Math. Then all of the parents go to the school district and complain that their child isn't sufficiently challenged, since the families are paying $500/month to have the kids accelerated beyond grade level. Around and around it goes, all in pursuit of a vanishingly small number of HPYS slots.
It's not healthy for the kids, nor is it at all necessary.
I understand that. That's why I'm content with staying at our (much-derided by some) charter in NE DC rather than moving to the close-in burbs or upper NW "for the schools." We are comfortable with our ability to supplement with the aid of a variety of resources (including AoPS/Beast Academy online, JHU-CTY), but without the gaze (or more likely the perceived gaze) of Abdul's, Chloe's, and Timmy's parents and the attendant keep-up culture, which of course does not exist at our charter, thankfully.
Bottom line, we are confident that our kids will be well-prepared for private middle school.
Stay at your school. Your kid will in the top of the class and get excellent college acceptances coming from such a poor school environment. Then you can laugh at all the strivers in the good schools.
Some other points. The only people that care about this topic are clueless white liberals. Folks of every other race and every income are trying to do what's best for their kids you should too.
No one is comfortable if their race is less than 20% at a school
Charters are used by everyone to try and climb up a rung it's true for UMC folks on capital hill, it's true for working class folks EOTR who actually care and rightfully fight tooth and nail to get out of the abysmal stats of DCPS talking less than 10% of kids on grade level in every single middle and high school. Heck most high schools across DC are terrible with the same stats. That's why its Banneker Walls Wilson private or move at the high school level.
Bolded above is so true.
Our DC is mixed asian/white but looks predominantly white. No guilt at all, could care less that scores are low because of demographics or scores are improving when the overwhelming majority of kids are below grade level.
I’m looking out for what’s best for my kid. I’m not interested in having my above grade level kid be in a majority black poorly performing school when we have options. I’m not interested in him being in the majority in a poorly performing white school either.
I want him in a high performing school with a cohort of kids who are ready to learn, motivated, and push him to do well. He is not self motivated enough to do well by himself. If this environment is diverse, great. If not, no problem, we have enough diverse friends.
The majority of parents are going to do what’s best for their kid. Full stop. If you are the few that want to prioritize what’s best for society over your kid, feel free to take the risk.
Pretty much. I’m black, have blacks friend and family across the SES spectrum, and have never heard any of them agonize over trying to place their kids in the best academic situation possible. Nor have I heard them complain about or judge the school choices of non-black folks. Indeed, I wager most would find it odd to ridiculous that someone, of whatever race, would affirmatively opt for a “lesser school situation out of some sense of social obligation or guilt. Just do what you think is best for your kids school-wise and forget about. You don’t need anyone’s permission. And to the extent you have broader concerns about then educational landscape, sending your kid to a low performing school won’t make a shred of difference.
At any rate, high-performing black kids are at much greater risk when surrounded by low-performing black kids versus similarly-situated whites/Asians!! High SES black families have no qualms about avoiding that. Nor should anyone else.
Really? That is not my experience at all.
You've heard black folks express guilt over trying to put their kids in the best possible school situation??? Like, "we have the means and access to put Cedric in a high-performing school that would be a great fit for him academically, but we have a racial duty to send him to a low-performing majority-black school where he can uplift our people."
Other than Nikole Hannah-Jones, ain't hardly any black foldk singing that song.
Sorry, I thought you meant it the other way around - that they were not concerned about their child's academic situation.
Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
There are very few kids like this who aren't going to be challenged in any public school in the DMV area, and so your options are fundamentally different and nearly unique. There are many more kids who are at grade level or a year or two ahead and who don't have impossible-to-meet academic needs, they just have needs that aren't going to be met by their DCPS or charter options. I give my kids challenging work outside of school as well, but I think most parents if given the option would prefer for school to be teaching their kids.
Yes — of course the sort of open secret is that you can’t really rely on most public schools (even the “good” ones) to get kids where they need to be, at least not to the standard that many UMC families set/expect. All of our friend in the close in MD and VA public schools supplement like crazy, either on their own or by outsourcing to an AoPS, RSM, Kumon, etc. You’d think that these supposed “good” public schools (i.e, 9-10 on GS) full of well educated high SES families could provide an academic product sufficient obviate the need for further supplementing. But they don’t. And families understand that the kids are capable of so much more beyond the school curriculum, a curriculum, by the way, that would ostensibly satisfy the folks that find the rigor of the unmentionable HRCS to be lacking. My take: it’s all lacking (including the elem G&T programs) and I’d likely be doing the same thing in terms of supplementing even if we were at a “good” school that got the differentiation thing right.
This toxic striver culture is a choice that your friends are making, not a necessity. The standard "advanced" math track in MCPS puts kids in AP Calculus in 11th grade. That is plenty accelerated for all but the most special of snowflake outliers. UMC families are supplementing because they've locked themselves in an arms race with their neighbors and with the school district. Timmy goes to AoPS, so Abdul's parents think he needs to go too. Then Chloe's parents get nervous and enroll her in Russian Math. Then all of the parents go to the school district and complain that their child isn't sufficiently challenged, since the families are paying $500/month to have the kids accelerated beyond grade level. Around and around it goes, all in pursuit of a vanishingly small number of HPYS slots.
It's not healthy for the kids, nor is it at all necessary.
I understand that. That's why I'm content with staying at our (much-derided by some) charter in NE DC rather than moving to the close-in burbs or upper NW "for the schools." We are comfortable with our ability to supplement with the aid of a variety of resources (including AoPS/Beast Academy online, JHU-CTY), but without the gaze (or more likely the perceived gaze) of Abdul's, Chloe's, and Timmy's parents and the attendant keep-up culture, which of course does not exist at our charter, thankfully.
Bottom line, we are confident that our kids will be well-prepared for private middle school.
Stay at your school. Your kid will in the top of the class and get excellent college acceptances coming from such a poor school environment. Then you can laugh at all the strivers in the good schools.
Some other points. The only people that care about this topic are clueless white liberals. Folks of every other race and every income are trying to do what's best for their kids you should too.
No one is comfortable if their race is less than 20% at a school
Charters are used by everyone to try and climb up a rung it's true for UMC folks on capital hill, it's true for working class folks EOTR who actually care and rightfully fight tooth and nail to get out of the abysmal stats of DCPS talking less than 10% of kids on grade level in every single middle and high school. Heck most high schools across DC are terrible with the same stats. That's why its Banneker Walls Wilson private or move at the high school level.
Bolded above is so true.
Our DC is mixed asian/white but looks predominantly white. No guilt at all, could care less that scores are low because of demographics or scores are improving when the overwhelming majority of kids are below grade level.
I’m looking out for what’s best for my kid. I’m not interested in having my above grade level kid be in a majority black poorly performing school when we have options. I’m not interested in him being in the majority in a poorly performing white school either.
I want him in a high performing school with a cohort of kids who are ready to learn, motivated, and push him to do well. He is not self motivated enough to do well by himself. If this environment is diverse, great. If not, no problem, we have enough diverse friends.
The majority of parents are going to do what’s best for their kid. Full stop. If you are the few that want to prioritize what’s best for society over your kid, feel free to take the risk.
Pretty much. I’m black, have blacks friend and family across the SES spectrum, and have never heard any of them agonize over trying to place their kids in the best academic situation possible. Nor have I heard them complain about or judge the school choices of non-black folks. Indeed, I wager most would find it odd to ridiculous that someone, of whatever race, would affirmatively opt for a “lesser school situation out of some sense of social obligation or guilt. Just do what you think is best for your kids school-wise and forget about. You don’t need anyone’s permission. And to the extent you have broader concerns about then educational landscape, sending your kid to a low performing school won’t make a shred of difference.
At any rate, high-performing black kids are at much greater risk when surrounded by low-performing black kids versus similarly-situated whites/Asians!! High SES black families have no qualms about avoiding that. Nor should anyone else.
Really? That is not my experience at all.
You've heard black folks express guilt over trying to put their kids in the best possible school situation??? Like, "we have the means and access to put Cedric in a high-performing school that would be a great fit for him academically, but we have a racial duty to send him to a low-performing majority-black school where he can uplift our people."
Other than Nikole Hannah-Jones, ain't hardly any black foldk singing that song.
Sorry, I thought you meant it the other way around - that they were not concerned about their child's academic situation.
No problem. Looking back, it does lend itself to misinterpretation.
Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Can we please stay focused on the UMC white people! I mean, jeez, after hundreds of years of it being all about everyone else when will white people with means finally get the attention they so desire?
-Signed a white person who is mortified by PP
It is okay for white people in DC to want to discuss these thorny school choice issues. Asking that the conversation stay focused on this issue is different than asking that ALL conversations about public school in DC focus on white people.
One of the reasons this problem exists is because it is taboo for white people in DC to openly discuss issues like discomfort with being the only white family in a class or grade. People will say it in hush tones and behind closed doors, but there's shame in it, like you are saying something deeply selfish or even racist. There are so many elephant in this room that don't get addressed because white people don't want to be seen as insensitive or supporting white supremacy. But it would be better to just get it out and address it head on. It's not as though staying quiet about it solves the problem -- it just means that people move schools and then lie about why they did it. "Oh this school is more convenient for our commute" or whatever. It would be better if we just talked about tit openly to figure out if there is a way to address it.
I have a white kid in a predominantly black DCPS and we love the school but the issue of her being the only white kid in many settings comes up a lot. We are fielding her questions and concerns the best we can but let me tell you, it's not easy because we have to both support her for the situation she is currently in (as a racial minority) while also thinking about teaching her about white supremacy, a concept that currently makes little to no sense to her because she spend a lot of her time in a majority-black environment where she sometimes feels like the odd kid out. It's threading a weird needle and there is very little guidance for this specific situation.
I talk about this stuff because I'm trying to figure it out. I have to talk to other white people about it because they are the only ones who are in the same situation and who might understand the competing priorities. Telling us to be quiet and stop centering ourselves in a conversation that we started about our experience is weird. We aren't hijacking a conversation among POC about school equity. We're trying to have a conversation about how we, as white people, can support school equity while also fulfilling our parental duty to support our own kids academically and socially.
If you don't have useful information or advice, you are not required to participate.
No, I feel you. It is HARD out there for a white UMC family. Stay strong my white sistah and fight the good fight. You will get your 40 acres and a mule if you keep on keeping on.
The decision so many people have made to consider all white women the enemy, even when trying to engage honestly with issues of race and not hoard resources or perpetuate white supremacy, is so freaking weird to me. As a white woman, if you show any feelings at all when discussing these issues, even just mild frustration or confusion, you will get accused by someone of centering yourself, “white tears” or whatever.
The reason a LOT of progressive who’re women just don’t talk about any of this anymore is that it’s easier to be quiet than to risk putting a foot wrong. Is that the goal? Silence from white women on the topic of equity and education? Not sure that’s going to work out how you hope.
Black man here and totally agree with this. It's almost like people (including some white women themselves!) are chomping at the bit the "Karen-ize" white women for everything under the sun. It really isn't helpful. When I hear this it makes me feel terribly uncomfortable. I get the sense that some folks are putting on an act for my ostensible benefit. What a mess. Almost makes me hate everyone.
Thank you. I feel really grateful to have deeply engaged in dialog about race and justice and activism and what we can do better intensively before the 2000s in several predominantly black spaces. Back when you could actually talk about this sh.. without it devolving into a competitive attack fest. This really helped me get my bearings and I'm pretty grateful I could do this.
The current atmosphere seems more dedicated to demonizing white women by calling the "Karens" than it is to creating racial justice. A sad state of conversation and dialog in our nation indeed. Made especially unfortunate given how clearly racism has reared its ugly head in this Trumpian era.
Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
There are very few kids like this who aren't going to be challenged in any public school in the DMV area, and so your options are fundamentally different and nearly unique. There are many more kids who are at grade level or a year or two ahead and who don't have impossible-to-meet academic needs, they just have needs that aren't going to be met by their DCPS or charter options. I give my kids challenging work outside of school as well, but I think most parents if given the option would prefer for school to be teaching their kids.
Yes — of course the sort of open secret is that you can’t really rely on most public schools (even the “good” ones) to get kids where they need to be, at least not to the standard that many UMC families set/expect. All of our friend in the close in MD and VA public schools supplement like crazy, either on their own or by outsourcing to an AoPS, RSM, Kumon, etc. You’d think that these supposed “good” public schools (i.e, 9-10 on GS) full of well educated high SES families could provide an academic product sufficient obviate the need for further supplementing. But they don’t. And families understand that the kids are capable of so much more beyond the school curriculum, a curriculum, by the way, that would ostensibly satisfy the folks that find the rigor of the unmentionable HRCS to be lacking. My take: it’s all lacking (including the elem G&T programs) and I’d likely be doing the same thing in terms of supplementing even if we were at a “good” school that got the differentiation thing right.
This toxic striver culture is a choice that your friends are making, not a necessity. The standard "advanced" math track in MCPS puts kids in AP Calculus in 11th grade. That is plenty accelerated for all but the most special of snowflake outliers. UMC families are supplementing because they've locked themselves in an arms race with their neighbors and with the school district. Timmy goes to AoPS, so Abdul's parents think he needs to go too. Then Chloe's parents get nervous and enroll her in Russian Math. Then all of the parents go to the school district and complain that their child isn't sufficiently challenged, since the families are paying $500/month to have the kids accelerated beyond grade level. Around and around it goes, all in pursuit of a vanishingly small number of HPYS slots.
It's not healthy for the kids, nor is it at all necessary.
I understand that. That's why I'm content with staying at our (much-derided by some) charter in NE DC rather than moving to the close-in burbs or upper NW "for the schools." We are comfortable with our ability to supplement with the aid of a variety of resources (including AoPS/Beast Academy online, JHU-CTY), but without the gaze (or more likely the perceived gaze) of Abdul's, Chloe's, and Timmy's parents and the attendant keep-up culture, which of course does not exist at our charter, thankfully.
Bottom line, we are confident that our kids will be well-prepared for private middle school.
Stay at your school. Your kid will in the top of the class and get excellent college acceptances coming from such a poor school environment. Then you can laugh at all the strivers in the good schools.
Some other points. The only people that care about this topic are clueless white liberals. Folks of every other race and every income are trying to do what's best for their kids you should too.
No one is comfortable if their race is less than 20% at a school
Charters are used by everyone to try and climb up a rung it's true for UMC folks on capital hill, it's true for working class folks EOTR who actually care and rightfully fight tooth and nail to get out of the abysmal stats of DCPS talking less than 10% of kids on grade level in every single middle and high school. Heck most high schools across DC are terrible with the same stats. That's why its Banneker Walls Wilson private or move at the high school level.
Bolded above is so true.
Our DC is mixed asian/white but looks predominantly white. No guilt at all, could care less that scores are low because of demographics or scores are improving when the overwhelming majority of kids are below grade level.
I’m looking out for what’s best for my kid. I’m not interested in having my above grade level kid be in a majority black poorly performing school when we have options. I’m not interested in him being in the majority in a poorly performing white school either.
I want him in a high performing school with a cohort of kids who are ready to learn, motivated, and push him to do well. He is not self motivated enough to do well by himself. If this environment is diverse, great. If not, no problem, we have enough diverse friends.
The majority of parents are going to do what’s best for their kid. Full stop. If you are the few that want to prioritize what’s best for society over your kid, feel free to take the risk.
Pretty much. I’m black, have blacks friend and family across the SES spectrum, and have never heard any of them agonize over trying to place their kids in the best academic situation possible. Nor have I heard them complain about or judge the school choices of non-black folks. Indeed, I wager most would find it odd to ridiculous that someone, of whatever race, would affirmatively opt for a “lesser school situation out of some sense of social obligation or guilt. Just do what you think is best for your kids school-wise and forget about. You don’t need anyone’s permission. And to the extent you have broader concerns about then educational landscape, sending your kid to a low performing school won’t make a shred of difference.
At any rate, high-performing black kids are at much greater risk when surrounded by low-performing black kids versus similarly-situated whites/Asians!! High SES black families have no qualms about avoiding that. Nor should anyone else.
Really? That is not my experience at all.
You've heard black folks express guilt over trying to put their kids in the best possible school situation??? Like, "we have the means and access to put Cedric in a high-performing school that would be a great fit for him academically, but we have a racial duty to send him to a low-performing majority-black school where he can uplift our people."
Other than Nikole Hannah-Jones, ain't hardly any black foldk singing that song.
I have not heard any express guilt but I have heard Black parents of means consider whether they should put their child in a more diverse (more Black) school rather than a less diverse school deemed higher performing.
Anonymous wrote:if the teachers union runs DCPS, tell that to the union. And the chancellor.
There is that slice of parents saying DCPS isn't for me because my kid won't get challenged. But that's largely upper class parents not in or not satisfied with the JKLM/Deal/Wilson(JR) pyramid.
That's - how many? and it's mixed motivations for most of these parents, right? Because they don't want the demographics and the "teaching down to the dumb" that they are certain is happening at the demographically different schools in their neighborhood.
That has not been my experience. Setting aside that it ignores all of Latin and Basis that don't come from Ward 3, it is kind of offensive to black families to suggest that they (and by "they" I mean that's demographically what the rest of DCPS and HRCS are) are not seeking alternatives because their kids aren't being challenged. In point of fact, high performing black kids are MORE likely to peel off in my experience precisely because these same "good" ES and HRCS test scores tell us that the scores for black kids are markedly lower, and parents are concerned that merely "on grade level" will be good enough for their black student.
We were very happy at our HRCS but ultimately made a move in 5th because our kid was light years ahead of their grade but the school didn't test anything beyond a "4" (ahead by less than one grade level) and taught to the mean. That might have been ok, but not as the mean slid down year after year because high performing kids peeled off year after year. The ED at our school talks a good "equity" game but ignores the part of actually providing top flight education as a means to leveling the playing field. I refer to it in quiet as "Equity without Education".
In conversations with families at other DCPS ES and HRCS we found the same concerns and conversations were occurring. When we departed in 5th the school was demographically no different in 4th than it had been in 3rd or 2nd. In fact the only kids we lost to that point (other than the one who went overseas with State) were black kids who went private or in search of greener pastures. Unfortunately those kids were at the top of the class with our kid so we lost the rest of their cohort.
We are white and we left for more academic rigor and higher degree of accountability for disruptive behavior. So what's the narrative? Is this "white flight"? Does that term mean a white person leaving because there does not exist academic rigor, regardless of the demographic make-up of the school? Or does it mean a white person leaving to get away from black people? By arguing they are the same thing you are in fact making an argument that black=low performing or lowered expectations. That seems a more racist and insidious vision than allowing for the fact that all parents striving for excellent academic outcomes may and can leave for better options. It is lazy and entirely too easy to blame race and white flight. Doing so gives schools a pass for failing to provide top flight education for all enrolled students. We left. We don't suffer liberal guilt over it. If it makes DCUM or families that remain feel better to say it was racism that's fine by me. My kid is in an immeasurably improved environment at an incredibly rigorous school with a HS path. And the HRCS just lost one of the few remaining kids more than a grade level ahead. The school and community can look inward or outward at this point - no skin off my back. But continuing to just blame white flight is exacerbating the problem, lowering Tier and test scores and causing the demand for the school to plummet as against the last 6 years.
… where did you go then? Private? If not at a DCPS and no longer at your charter?
Basis. And, post-script, the HRCS from which we came has its smallest ever waitlist (at least against common lottery published data). I really hope the BoD starts paying attention before it is too late. Sadly, I fear the ED has insulated herself from criticism by cloaking herself in an "Equity" shield that none of the Board members are willing to question. The ship may go down on their watch, but at least no one will accuse them of being racist!
I know what school this is. My kids are also light years ahead academically and I have no expectation that the school will challenge my kids in core ELA and math. But I don't care, because we are providing that rigor outside of school, and frankly, doubt any DC public school (or G&T programs outside DC) would be on par. Further, our kids are both JHU-CTYers and we take advantage of those offerings as well.
Why do we stay? Our kids otherwise enjoy the school and (unlike other kids) suffer nothing from the lack of "rigor." At any rate, we plan to stay through 5th grade and then jump to private for middle school onward, as we aren't really interested in any of the charter options, even if we could bank on getting in.
FWIW, we are not white.
There are very few kids like this who aren't going to be challenged in any public school in the DMV area, and so your options are fundamentally different and nearly unique. There are many more kids who are at grade level or a year or two ahead and who don't have impossible-to-meet academic needs, they just have needs that aren't going to be met by their DCPS or charter options. I give my kids challenging work outside of school as well, but I think most parents if given the option would prefer for school to be teaching their kids.
Yes — of course the sort of open secret is that you can’t really rely on most public schools (even the “good” ones) to get kids where they need to be, at least not to the standard that many UMC families set/expect. All of our friend in the close in MD and VA public schools supplement like crazy, either on their own or by outsourcing to an AoPS, RSM, Kumon, etc. You’d think that these supposed “good” public schools (i.e, 9-10 on GS) full of well educated high SES families could provide an academic product sufficient obviate the need for further supplementing. But they don’t. And families understand that the kids are capable of so much more beyond the school curriculum, a curriculum, by the way, that would ostensibly satisfy the folks that find the rigor of the unmentionable HRCS to be lacking. My take: it’s all lacking (including the elem G&T programs) and I’d likely be doing the same thing in terms of supplementing even if we were at a “good” school that got the differentiation thing right.
This toxic striver culture is a choice that your friends are making, not a necessity. The standard "advanced" math track in MCPS puts kids in AP Calculus in 11th grade. That is plenty accelerated for all but the most special of snowflake outliers. UMC families are supplementing because they've locked themselves in an arms race with their neighbors and with the school district. Timmy goes to AoPS, so Abdul's parents think he needs to go too. Then Chloe's parents get nervous and enroll her in Russian Math. Then all of the parents go to the school district and complain that their child isn't sufficiently challenged, since the families are paying $500/month to have the kids accelerated beyond grade level. Around and around it goes, all in pursuit of a vanishingly small number of HPYS slots.
It's not healthy for the kids, nor is it at all necessary.
I understand that. That's why I'm content with staying at our (much-derided by some) charter in NE DC rather than moving to the close-in burbs or upper NW "for the schools." We are comfortable with our ability to supplement with the aid of a variety of resources (including AoPS/Beast Academy online, JHU-CTY), but without the gaze (or more likely the perceived gaze) of Abdul's, Chloe's, and Timmy's parents and the attendant keep-up culture, which of course does not exist at our charter, thankfully.
Bottom line, we are confident that our kids will be well-prepared for private middle school.
Stay at your school. Your kid will in the top of the class and get excellent college acceptances coming from such a poor school environment. Then you can laugh at all the strivers in the good schools.
Some other points. The only people that care about this topic are clueless white liberals. Folks of every other race and every income are trying to do what's best for their kids you should too.
No one is comfortable if their race is less than 20% at a school
Charters are used by everyone to try and climb up a rung it's true for UMC folks on capital hill, it's true for working class folks EOTR who actually care and rightfully fight tooth and nail to get out of the abysmal stats of DCPS talking less than 10% of kids on grade level in every single middle and high school. Heck most high schools across DC are terrible with the same stats. That's why its Banneker Walls Wilson private or move at the high school level.
Bolded above is so true.
Our DC is mixed asian/white but looks predominantly white. No guilt at all, could care less that scores are low because of demographics or scores are improving when the overwhelming majority of kids are below grade level.
I’m looking out for what’s best for my kid. I’m not interested in having my above grade level kid be in a majority black poorly performing school when we have options. I’m not interested in him being in the majority in a poorly performing white school either.
I want him in a high performing school with a cohort of kids who are ready to learn, motivated, and push him to do well. He is not self motivated enough to do well by himself. If this environment is diverse, great. If not, no problem, we have enough diverse friends.
The majority of parents are going to do what’s best for their kid. Full stop. If you are the few that want to prioritize what’s best for society over your kid, feel free to take the risk.
Pretty much. I’m black, have blacks friend and family across the SES spectrum, and have never heard any of them agonize over trying to place their kids in the best academic situation possible. Nor have I heard them complain about or judge the school choices of non-black folks. Indeed, I wager most would find it odd to ridiculous that someone, of whatever race, would affirmatively opt for a “lesser school situation out of some sense of social obligation or guilt. Just do what you think is best for your kids school-wise and forget about. You don’t need anyone’s permission. And to the extent you have broader concerns about then educational landscape, sending your kid to a low performing school won’t make a shred of difference.
At any rate, high-performing black kids are at much greater risk when surrounded by low-performing black kids versus similarly-situated whites/Asians!! High SES black families have no qualms about avoiding that. Nor should anyone else.
Really? That is not my experience at all.
You've heard black folks express guilt over trying to put their kids in the best possible school situation??? Like, "we have the means and access to put Cedric in a high-performing school that would be a great fit for him academically, but we have a racial duty to send him to a low-performing majority-black school where he can uplift our people."
Other than Nikole Hannah-Jones, ain't hardly any black foldk singing that song.
I have not heard any express guilt but I have heard Black parents of means consider whether they should put their child in a more diverse (more Black) school rather than a less diverse school deemed higher performing.
I understand that, and my experience is that black folks of means often turn to private schools precisely because those are the only places where you can find both a high-performing school with and a critical mass of high-performing black peers.
Anonymous wrote:why does the majority black part modify the poorly performing part in the bolded sentence above?
Not PP who posted that but I think that's the point. I took their post to mean that the school was poorly performing...and happened to also be majority black.
The post said majority black poorly performing or majority white poorly performing. The idea was that PP did not want her kid to be in either school as a minority or majority because it was poorly performing. That was the common denominator, not race.
Anonymous wrote:why does the majority black part modify the poorly performing part in the bolded sentence above?
Not PP who posted that but I think that's the point. I took their post to mean that the school was poorly performing...and happened to also be majority black.
The post said majority black poorly performing or majority white poorly performing. The idea was that PP did not want her kid to be in either school as a minority or majority because it was poorly performing. That was the common denominator, not race.
Cannot for the life of me figure out what you think you are disagreeing with.
Anonymous wrote:I swear, white people complain about everything! This is embarrassing! Homeschool your kids if you’re afraid to have them around a diverse group of kids.
People are actually talking about lack of diversity. A school that is 84% black, 8% white, 6% Latino, and 2% AAPI? Not diverse. This is like saying that a black family who chooses not to send their children to the 90% white charter school are "afraid of diversity." They are afraid that their child will not fit in or feel welcome. Come on.
Depends on how much they price their weed at honestly on whether they’ll fit in or not
Honestly the fact that you all believe that your child will not do well if they are with low SES kids is a form of prejudice in itself. There are schools actually bridging the gap AND keeping your mostly average kids thriving, as well as the few gifted children engaged and learning.
The mark of a good school is not simply ‘how many poor, middle class, and upper middle class kids are there’ It’s how are ALL the kids doing, what programs do they have, the school culture, etc.
To be quite honest it’s likely your child is average, ‘the best’ light skin school won’t change that. Choose what you like but please don’t act like you’re doing it to simply further your child, you’re doing it due to prejudice and sometimes classism or racism.
Anonymous wrote:Can we stay focused on MS and HS? Elementary is not a factor in this discussion and light years away 9 year olds also do not factor in
And this discussion is not about the UMC black families that can afford private and I do believe that all families worry about their kids and want what is best
We are talking about what options there are for MC and UMC white families that live in DC and want more diversity in their schools and what comfort level they have to be the only white kid in the school.
Most schools are predominantly black and many of those kids live out of bounds over the river and in MD which is a whole other story
We live under the mason Dixon line and it makes sense demographically but we still need to acknowledge that many of us who moved here to be in DC and experience this great city are met with a terrible school system overall and those of us that can not afford private or get a lottery spot are lost in what to do.
I don’t think the Washington natives are raciest and I think for the most part DC implants are not racists but there is an obvious cultural difference. Many of my DC (dear child) friends are black but I don’t know where they live and have never met their parents because they are not involved at school and it leave loss in their social life. great kids! just limited
Can we please stay focused on the UMC white people! I mean, jeez, after hundreds of years of it being all about everyone else when will white people with means finally get the attention they so desire?
-Signed a white person who is mortified by PP
It is okay for white people in DC to want to discuss these thorny school choice issues. Asking that the conversation stay focused on this issue is different than asking that ALL conversations about public school in DC focus on white people.
One of the reasons this problem exists is because it is taboo for white people in DC to openly discuss issues like discomfort with being the only white family in a class or grade. People will say it in hush tones and behind closed doors, but there's shame in it, like you are saying something deeply selfish or even racist. There are so many elephant in this room that don't get addressed because white people don't want to be seen as insensitive or supporting white supremacy. But it would be better to just get it out and address it head on. It's not as though staying quiet about it solves the problem -- it just means that people move schools and then lie about why they did it. "Oh this school is more convenient for our commute" or whatever. It would be better if we just talked about tit openly to figure out if there is a way to address it.
I have a white kid in a predominantly black DCPS and we love the school but the issue of her being the only white kid in many settings comes up a lot. We are fielding her questions and concerns the best we can but let me tell you, it's not easy because we have to both support her for the situation she is currently in (as a racial minority) while also thinking about teaching her about white supremacy, a concept that currently makes little to no sense to her because she spend a lot of her time in a majority-black environment where she sometimes feels like the odd kid out. It's threading a weird needle and there is very little guidance for this specific situation.
I talk about this stuff because I'm trying to figure it out. I have to talk to other white people about it because they are the only ones who are in the same situation and who might understand the competing priorities. Telling us to be quiet and stop centering ourselves in a conversation that we started about our experience is weird. We aren't hijacking a conversation among POC about school equity. We're trying to have a conversation about how we, as white people, can support school equity while also fulfilling our parental duty to support our own kids academically and socially.
If you don't have useful information or advice, you are not required to participate.
No, I feel you. It is HARD out there for a white UMC family. Stay strong my white sistah and fight the good fight. You will get your 40 acres and a mule if you keep on keeping on.
The decision so many people have made to consider all white women the enemy, even when trying to engage honestly with issues of race and not hoard resources or perpetuate white supremacy, is so freaking weird to me. As a white woman, if you show any feelings at all when discussing these issues, even just mild frustration or confusion, you will get accused by someone of centering yourself, “white tears” or whatever.
The reason a LOT of progressive who’re women just don’t talk about any of this anymore is that it’s easier to be quiet than to risk putting a foot wrong. Is that the goal? Silence from white women on the topic of equity and education? Not sure that’s going to work out how you hope.
Black man here and totally agree with this. It's almost like people (including some white women themselves!) are chomping at the bit the "Karen-ize" white women for everything under the sun. It really isn't helpful. When I hear this it makes me feel terribly uncomfortable. I get the sense that some folks are putting on an act for my ostensible benefit. What a mess. Almost makes me hate everyone.
It is supposed to appear for your benefit but of course it’s not.
Progressive white women (and to be clear, I am one) sometimes play a game to prove which one is the most progressive, the truly woke one. It’s exhausting. But triangulating a power structure to try to align ourselves with who’s in charge is sort of the White Lady Way, so unsurprising.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly the fact that you all believe that your child will not do well if they are with low SES kids is a form of prejudice in itself. There are schools actually bridging the gap AND keeping your mostly average kids thriving, as well as the few gifted children engaged and learning.
The mark of a good school is not simply ‘how many poor, middle class, and upper middle class kids are there’ It’s how are ALL the kids doing, what programs do they have, the school culture, etc.
To be quite honest it’s likely your child is average, ‘the best’ light skin school won’t change that. Choose what you like but please don’t act like you’re doing it to simply further your child, you’re doing it due to prejudice and sometimes classism or racism.
Oh someone else playing the race card again. So tiresome. My DC scores 98% on standardized exams so no DC is not average at best and put in a school where the majority of kids are performing way below grade level, it will be a cake walk for him. He just needs to show up to get an A. That will make him lazy and not instill any good work ethics because he doesn’t need to work at all. Also DCPS sure isn’t bridging the gap and that gap hasn’t moved much at all.
BTW here you go a report from FCPS. 20% FARMS is your tipping point.
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