Proof of Citizenship

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not. The best way to deal with this is enforce the law. No anmesty.
The political problems in the home countries are brought on most by corruption, and to some extent, bad luck. The corrupt are generally not the ones waiting to get a visa legally, but rather they are often the ones here working illegally.

Have you ever been to any of these places? There are a number of reasons for the problems in their home countries. To the extent that corruption plays a role, it is the rich and powerful that are the most corrupt. With a few exceptions, the corrupt are indeed getting their visas legally. They sure as hell are not climbing fences to get here. Do really think that anyone is going to give up a life of siphoning a nation's wealth to come here to cut your grass and wash dishes in a restaurant?

Yes, I have been to many of these places, actually born in one.

The corruption is from the top all the way down. But it is not my problem. I still don't see why these people need my sympathy, andmore than say people in China, Pakistan, Equatorial Guinea, N. Korea. How much can I do? And BTW, when they get here, do they do anything to fix things back home?

[Anonymous]

Yeah, that's pretty funny, to equate third-world corruption and illegal immigration. If there's any connection, our undocumented immigrants are here desperate to escape that kind of thing.

[Anonymous]

They sure as hell are not climbing fences to get here. Do really think that anyone is going to give up a life of siphoning a nation's wealth to come here to cut your grass and wash dishes in a restaurant?

I think you're past the point of diminishing returns. This person clearly knows nothing except that they're angry.

[Anonymous]

How we became white people
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/29/lander.who.am.i/index.html?hpt=T2

"As long as America has been around, I would have been considered white. I would have checked the same box in the 1790 census, had my relatives decided to stay on their land instead of moving to Canada to stay loyal to the King of England. But not everyone who checked that box on the census has always been considered white. Irish, Italian, Jewish, German and Eastern European have all been considered not white. or at the very least "not American."

All of these groups came to America amid widespread discrimination, and yet through the process of assimilation and Americanization, the status of white was slowly conferred upon them (read "The History of White People" or "How the Irish Became White" for actual, intelligent research on how this happened).

And with this new-found white status also came the status of "ethnically American." Of course, a lot of people will say that there is no such thing as an ethnic American and that everyone who becomes a citizen is an American. And this is true to the letter of the law, but if we consider the popular perception of immigration and the American dream, to say that white skin has nothing to do with it would be complete folly.

In the popular myth, immigrants arrive as huddled masses yearning to be free and most of the women wear scarves around their head. They move to the Lower East Side or some other suitably "ethnic" community, they change a last name, they learn English and within one generation they are welcomed into the country as ethnic Americans and granted that wonderful privilege of checking the white box on the census.

The reality is that America has a long history of welcoming immigrants who will never be able to check that white box on the census, and unfortunately that means America also has a long history of discrimination against those people regardless of their status in the country. Just one example would be the treatment of Japanese-Americans during World War II contrasted against the treatment of German-Americans.

But all of that was in the past right? Well, ask yourself this: Who is more likely to get pulled over and forced to show his papers in Arizona today? A first generation Canadian immigrant, or a 10th generation Mexican-American?

What I hope this census will force the country to deal with is the fact that white immigrants like me will never again make up the majority of people that come to this country. America is not getting whiter, it will never get whiter. Well, unless we start handing those blankets out again."

[Anonymous]

Well, unless we start handing those blankets out again."



Ouch!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a big fan of anonymous commenters who come in and try to "sum it all up", but let me sum it up for you:

If there were anything like a majority of Americans who supported stopping the immigration of undocumented foreigners, we'd beef up the INS with a DEA-like enforcement arm, and pass legislation making the criminal penalties for hiring undocumented workers similar to the penalties for trafficking in crack cocaine. Say mandatory minimum of 5 years in Federal prison. Everything else is a smokescreen designed to gull the painfully uninformed into thinking the political Right has any interest whatsoever in curtailing the problem. They don't.

The fact that there is absolutely no public support for such a course tells you everything you need to know about the American public's commitment to stopping the problem.

Notice how I said, "the American public's commitment", not Obama's commitment, Nancy Pelosi's commitment, or Al Franken's commitment. If you're one of the small percentage of Americans who do care, let me tell you right now, your neighbors don't give a shit. Not when balanced against cheap daycare and landscaping.

You can give away your civil liberties piecemeal if you like, but this has fuck-all to do with stopping illegal immigration, and everything to do with certain politicians in Arizona making you feel good that they're "doing something."

I think you are wrong about this. If there were a national referendum on exactly this point, I'd be betting it would pass, and if the penalty was 6 months instead of 5 years it would pass like 60/40. IMO, the reason nothing happens on immigration is that the current D leadership is not as concerned about the views of the white working class at it once was, and it sees legalizing current illegals as an opportunity for a long-term majority, and the Rs are hopelessly divided between the open borders/cheap labor business types (who like immigration) and the more populist right (who don't). Hence, neither party really wants immigration restrictions, although all the polling I've ever seen shows a solid majority of people in favor of substantially decreased immigration.

[Anonymous]

Everybody against creating meaningful legal pathways with controlled borders and quotas basically wants to perpetuate a sick system of worker exploitation and a black market economy based on criminal activity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everybody against creating meaningful legal pathways with controlled borders and quotas basically wants to perpetuate a sick system of worker exploitation and a black market economy based on criminal activity

ITA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a big fan of anonymous commenters who come in and try to "sum it all up", but let me sum it up for you:

If there were anything like a majority of Americans who supported stopping the immigration of undocumented foreigners, we'd beef up the INS with a DEA-like enforcement arm, and pass legislation making the criminal penalties for hiring undocumented workers similar to the penalties for trafficking in crack cocaine. Say mandatory minimum of 5 years in Federal prison. Everything else is a smokescreen designed to gull the painfully uninformed into thinking the political Right has any interest whatsoever in curtailing the problem. They don't.

The fact that there is absolutely no public support for such a course tells you everything you need to know about the American public's commitment to stopping the problem.

Notice how I said, "the American public's commitment", not Obama's commitment, Nancy Pelosi's commitment, or Al Franken's commitment. If you're one of the small percentage of Americans who do care, let me tell you right now, your neighbors don't give a shit. Not when balanced against cheap daycare and landscaping.

You can give away your civil liberties piecemeal if you like, but this has fuck-all to do with stopping illegal immigration, and everything to do with certain politicians in Arizona making you feel good that they're "doing something."

I think you are wrong about this. If there were a national referendum on exactly this point, I'd be betting it would pass, and if the penalty was 6 months instead of 5 years it would pass like 60/40. IMO, the reason nothing happens on immigration is that the current D leadership is not as concerned about the views of the white working class at it once was, and it sees legalizing current illegals as an opportunity for a long-term majority, and the Rs are hopelessly divided between the open borders/cheap labor business types (who like immigration) and the more populist right (who don't). Hence, neither party really wants immigration restrictions, although all the polling I've ever seen shows a solid majority of people in favor of substantially decreased immigration.

Actually it was George W. Bush that proposed legalizing them.

[Anonymous]

I think you are wrong about this. If there were a national referendum on exactly this point, I'd be betting it would pass, and if the penalty was 6 months instead of 5 years it would pass like 60/40.

Probably right if we did things bay national referendum. Unfortunately, we've got a representative democracy, so you need to convince your fellow Americans' legislator as well.

In any case, it looks like the criminal penalty for knowingly hiring undocumented workers is already six months. The problem is, it's quite hard to prosecute. That's why the penalty needs to be large enough that the unlikelihood of getting caught is outweighed by the penality for getting caught.

Let's face it, outside of a couple of border states, this is an issue that the GOP uses to gin up fear of brown people, and--aside from a general sense of "unfairness"--doesn't resonate with 90% of the voters.

http://bccvisalaw.com/immigration-penalties-unlawful-employment.php

[Anonymous]

The statement that the GOP gins up fear of brown people (or has any desire to) is utter utter ignorance and hate.

[Anonymous]

The statement that the GOP gins up fear of brown people (or has any desire to) is utter utter ignorance and hate.

...sorry, I should've added "this is an issue that the GOP uses to play to the racial resentments of a large percentage of their base--all the while couching things in such a way as to give folks who consider themselves 'enlightened' a fig leaf."

After all, they're well on their way to doing to the Latino electorate what they did over the last half century to the black electorate. That is, utterly and completely alienating them in the pursuit of racial dog-whistle politics. The practical effect of these laws is not going to be white, upper-middle class white women getting stopped on the way home from the mall, and locked up in the pokey while their husband goes home to get her birth certificate. And as long as that doesn't happen, the swarthy folk can deal with the consequences.

And you know, if some fourth-generation Latino business owner doesn't like having his papers checked every week or so, he should hablo to his amigos across the river and tell them to behave, right? We're decent white folk, and it's not our problem.

The line from Reagan defending "states rights" in Philadelphia, MS to the new AZ race laws is straight as a razor.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:The line from Reagan defending "states rights" in Philadelphia, MS to the new AZ race laws is straight as a razor.

It's the "Southern Strategy" that has been around since Nixon, but with a Spanish accent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody against creating meaningful legal pathways with controlled borders and quotas basically wants to perpetuate a sick system of worker exploitation and a black market economy based on criminal activity

ITA

And divert the police from investigating the real criminals among the undocumented by wasting the police's time sending them after the hardworking and honest workers among the undocumented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The statement that the GOP gins up fear of brown people (or has any desire to) is utter utter ignorance and hate.

Different poster.

It may be true that the party doesn't want it, but a lot of the people who make up the party feel that way and the party can't keep it under control, and they don't go out of their way to marginalize this portion of their party.

In any case, this whole thing is a big self-destruct button for the Republican Party. Hispanic Americans are going to be about 30% of the population in the next 40 years. They are already somewhere north of 15%. The high water mark for hispanic support of the republican party will forever be George W. Bush. It's all downhill from here.