Stop the Speculations :)

[Anonymous]

I am going to take the time to share some “insider info”, as we are done I am trying to be somewhat vague, as to not hint at why/how I got this much detail. I will only say that this is a consistent Top20 school but most selective schools have the same general process.

[Anonymous]

There are 2 different readers who review the application and take pretty extensive notes. Then they rate 6 components of the application - HS Rigor, Academics, Letters of Recommendation, Application Essays, Extracurricular, Test Scores. If submitted test optional, only 5 components are considered. Having no scores does not negatively impact the application, but good test scores can help. Each is subjectively scored on a scale from 1 – 5. The Common Data Set gives a hint at which factors are “very important”.

• HS curriculum is the depth and breadth of classes, as it relates to the students’ individual school. A student from a high achieving HS with 20 APs who takes 3 would get a lower score than a student from a rural school that only offered 6 APs. Academics are the actual progress of grades, and are rated against the HS peers. - think percentile or rank vs the actual GPA.
• Essays are moreso for the content; however, if words are misspelled or grammar is wrong the score could be lowered. The same if the “voice” seems suspect (i.e., the supplements are written too differently from the Common App essay.) The student has several essays to stand out to the reader. Also subjectively, “This student knows a lot about the school and gave specific examples on how they would fit in well here.” Or “This was not insightful. Unfortunately, I haven’t learned anything about the student other than they love soccer and I see that in the extracurriculars and awards section.”
• A good Extracurriculars rating could be for working a part time job or playing a year-round sport for 4 years. They are looking for dedication not quantity.
• Recommendations are scored on what the writer says about the student’s character or how they are as a student – whether they are intellectually curios or not. A LOR that merely says “ the student made straight As” which is likely evident in the transcript may not add anything to the application.
• Test scores are just that. If a student scores 1350 and their school reports that score is the top of the class, that would likely be a “5”. If the students scores a 1450 and that is in the 2nd quintile of his school’s reported scores, then that student may be rated a 4 or lower.
• Most AO read for a specific state/county, so they know the school/area the student is from…. So can go through a bit faster.
• ALL applications are read initially; however, only about half of the applications at this specific school are competitive, so Only those go through the more detailed readings. (An example of not being competitive is if the student does not have the minimum qualifications, or is in the bottom half of their graduating class without noting mitigating circumstances.)
• Also a school like MIT is strictly quantitative. They accept few people from EA because they “need” to see how the students do in Calculus. Even their athletes score a 800 on the math section of Sat 😊

After all of the ratings, the readers gives the student an overall score (not exactly an average – more holistically). It’s sort like a vote for admit (low or high) or decline. If both readers say “high admit” then the student is in. If it’s conflicting or both a low admit, the app may go to committee for a tie-breaker or end up in the “maybe” pile. Additional information may be in the file to help in case of a tie-breaker – like information from the optional interview (positive or neutral). There may also be a note on legacy, first gen, etc. (This school is trying to fill its class. Like it or not, if a legacy is on the bubble they will likely enroll over a person on the bubble with no ties to the specific school. Also, first gen is a mitigating circumstance. Like it or not, they may have only taken the SAT once in fall of Sr year because they were not aware to take it earlier. ) But nothing is assumed - this info would need to be in the LOR, additional information, or the reader’s knowledge of the area.

[Anonymous]

The Why X School essay is an attempt at (1) forcing you to read the website (2) informing you what the school has so you fall in love with it (3) helping you decide if the school is not for you. The website replaces the old “have you visited the school”. This school (and most selective schools) do not care about demonstrated interest...AT ALL!

Finally, there are no “tricks” to get URM enrolled. If there were, the school would likely have a lot more. The schools do want a more racially balanced class. They admit as many that are qualified, but a lot of URM decline because they cannot afford to attend, they get better offers, they do not really want to attend a PMI, or because (catch-22) the current numbers are so low. This is the same for the male-female ratio, although this school ends up pretty much 1:1 most years.

[Anonymous]

You comment specifically about MIT. There is no similar school in the Top 20. Therefore, you are likely referring to MIT.

[Anonymous]

A student from a high achieving HS with 20 APs who takes 3 would get a lower score than a student from a rural school that only offered 6 APs.

Obviously. But, more commonly, what about the student who takes 8 or 10 APs at a school that offers 20? That should be enough, but how does that play out when the applicant from the nearby rural county took 3 of 6 offered?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There are 2 different readers who review the application and take pretty extensive notes. Then they rate 6 components of the application - HS Rigor, Academics, Letters of Recommendation, Application Essays, Extracurricular, Test Scores. If submitted test optional, only 5 components are considered. Having no scores does not negatively impact the application, but good test scores can help. Each is subjectively scored on a scale from 1 – 5. The Common Data Set gives a hint at which factors are “very important”.

• HS curriculum is the depth and breadth of classes, as it relates to the students’ individual school. A student from a high achieving HS with 20 APs who takes 3 would get a lower score than a student from a rural school that only offered 6 APs. Academics are the actual progress of grades, and are rated against the HS peers. - think percentile or rank vs the actual GPA.
• Essays are moreso for the content; however, if words are misspelled or grammar is wrong the score could be lowered. The same if the “voice” seems suspect (i.e., the supplements are written too differently from the Common App essay.) The student has several essays to stand out to the reader. Also subjectively, “This student knows a lot about the school and gave specific examples on how they would fit in well here.” Or “This was not insightful. Unfortunately, I haven’t learned anything about the student other than they love soccer and I see that in the extracurriculars and awards section.”
• A good Extracurriculars rating could be for working a part time job or playing a year-round sport for 4 years. They are looking for dedication not quantity.
• Recommendations are scored on what the writer says about the student’s character or how they are as a student – whether they are intellectually curios or not. A LOR that merely says “ the student made straight As” which is likely evident in the transcript may not add anything to the application.
• Test scores are just that. If a student scores 1350 and their school reports that score is the top of the class, that would likely be a “5”. If the students scores a 1450 and that is in the 2nd quintile of his school’s reported scores, then that student may be rated a 4 or lower.
• Most AO read for a specific state/county, so they know the school/area the student is from…. So can go through a bit faster.
• ALL applications are read initially; however, only about half of the applications at this specific school are competitive, so Only those go through the more detailed readings. (An example of not being competitive is if the student does not have the minimum qualifications, or is in the bottom half of their graduating class without noting mitigating circumstances.)
• Also a school like MIT is strictly quantitative. They accept few people from EA because they “need” to see how the students do in Calculus. Even their athletes score a 800 on the math section of Sat 😊

After all of the ratings, the readers gives the student an overall score (not exactly an average – more holistically). It’s sort like a vote for admit (low or high) or decline. If both readers say “high admit” then the student is in. If it’s conflicting or both a low admit, the app may go to committee for a tie-breaker or end up in the “maybe” pile. Additional information may be in the file to help in case of a tie-breaker – like information from the optional interview (positive or neutral). There may also be a note on legacy, first gen, etc. (This school is trying to fill its class. Like it or not, if a legacy is on the bubble they will likely enroll over a person on the bubble with no ties to the specific school. Also, first gen is a mitigating circumstance. Like it or not, they may have only taken the SAT once in fall of Sr year because they were not aware to take it earlier. ) But nothing is assumed - this info would need to be in the LOR, additional information, or the reader’s knowledge of the area.

A friend's son who currently attends Stanford was able to request a copy of his student file which included his application with admissions comments. The process outlined above sounds similar to the ratings in his file.

[Anonymous]

This is Duke:

1 First review would be from an admissions officer (or sometimes a seasonal reader) who was trained on how to read apps.

2 Ratings were given in 6 categories with a 1-5 scale: Quality of Academic Program, Academic Achievement, Recommendations, Essays, Extracurriculars and Standardized Testing. Highest score was 30, lowest score was 6.

3 Second review was by an admissions officer familiar with that region/high school.

4 Sometimes a third review is done for discordant reviews, or with legacy/special cases.

5 About 10% of the applicants are “auto rejected” if the ratings are too low, and also similarly another set % is sent to the “admit” category.

6 The rest of the apps are reviewed by committee. Committee votes to accept, deny or waitlist.

7 Those in the accepted pile are then whittled down by the Dean of Admissions in a process he called “sculpting the class”. This is where the class is fine tuned for institutional priorities.

8 Along with this alumni were invited to interview candidates. We turned in a short response along with a rating for each candidate. I don’t think the alumni reports were used much except to keep alumni engaged.

[Anonymous]

So, for a school that gets around 80-90k applications, every application is actually reviewed completely?

[Anonymous]

Do essays often make or break a decision?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for this info. So the schools review and rank the applicants based on the criteria listed in the common data set. This was helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

A student from a high achieving HS with 20 APs who takes 3 would get a lower score than a student from a rural school that only offered 6 APs.

Obviously. But, more commonly, what about the student who takes 8 or 10 APs at a school that offers 20? That should be enough, but how does that play out when the applicant from the nearby rural county took 3 of 6 offered?

Right, good question. I am sick of counselors, admissions officers, experts giving obvious advice and scenarios. I’m interested in more granular details, and since many of us live in affluentish suburbs or cities, how do these kids compare to each other? That is after all how students are picked- in school groups, yes?

[Anonymous]

Can we change the title to: “Details on Adcom Review” or something?

Good stuff here!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A student from a high achieving HS with 20 APs who takes 3 would get a lower score than a student from a rural school that only offered 6 APs.

Obviously. But, more commonly, what about the student who takes 8 or 10 APs at a school that offers 20? That should be enough, but how does that play out when the applicant from the nearby rural county took 3 of 6 offered?

Right, good question. I am sick of counselors, admissions officers, experts giving obvious advice and scenarios. I’m interested in more granular details, and since many of us live in affluentish suburbs or cities, how do these kids compare to each other? That is after all how students are picked- in school groups, yes?

At the end of the day, your kids are competing with the kids from their own school and maybe one or max 2 peer schools. That’s it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do essays often make or break a decision?

Rarely make.

But if kid is a braggart or comes across the wrong way, could break.

[Anonymous]

Could you tell this year which applicants were AA or Hispanic?