New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

What fantasy world do you live in? Tell me you’ve never worked in the private sector without telling me. Private does not pay better for someone with your skills. Also the vast vast vast majority of private companies do not allow telework.

This (unfortunately)

..is a lie. FIFY. Private sector indeed pays better and offers better flexibility if I can find a job. Which could be an issue given that the local market is about to be flooded with people fleeing government. I serve because I believe that I am helping the American people, and the stability and flexibility has always made up for the lower pay. It’s been a nice career. I’m disappointed to see things go this way.

It is not a great market. That is why so many companies have been able to RTO over the past few years while keeping salaries stagnant and cutting pandemic-era perks and benefits. Many people are staying put and grinding it out because there is nothing better out there.

It's not a great market because they keep importing people on visas here. Their spouse's often work professional jobs too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

What fantasy world do you live in? Tell me you’ve never worked in the private sector without telling me. Private does not pay better for someone with your skills. Also the vast vast vast majority of private companies do not allow telework.

This (unfortunately)

..is a lie. FIFY. Private sector indeed pays better and offers better flexibility if I can find a job. Which could be an issue given that the local market is about to be flooded with people fleeing government. I serve because I believe that I am helping the American people, and the stability and flexibility has always made up for the lower pay. It’s been a nice career. I’m disappointed to see things go this way.

It is not a great market. That is why so many companies have been able to RTO over the past few years while keeping salaries stagnant and cutting pandemic-era perks and benefits. Many people are staying put and grinding it out because there is nothing better out there.

I meant to add that you should certainly try to find something better, but you should also manage your expectations about private sector opportunities being much better.

They’ll be better because they are driven by their bottom line to retain the best employees, and will offer better terms of employment than the government offers to attract top talent. Government doesn’t appear to want to keep top talent anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Please don’t act like the average Fed is logging in at night to work. Most of them do their 8 hours and whatever gets done, gets done. I don’t say this pejoratively btw. I would love to do that.

I have done it so many times after the kids were in bed. I'm a night owl and actually very productive in the evening.

I've also done it, largely because we communicate with the West Coast and with Europe regularly. I have to be on calls at 3am sometimes. I've also been called into meeting with domestic staff at 6pm or later.

Yes, I imagine many/most feds don't have these kinds of jobs, but that just suggests there be....gasp....the flexibility there is now wrt telework agreements.

Truth. I’m about to start working with some folks in Asia and prior to this nonsense I was prepared to get up early/log back on late to make it work. Now I really do not GAF. they can work around my strict 9-530 DC time schedule.

You sound like a stellar employee. Sub-par is more likely. You would not survive outside the government

You can go cry in your pillow then. before this attack on us, I was very motivated to work with my folks and smooth the path for them and go the extra mile. Now I will do my best but it will be strictly from 9-5:30 and on my terms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

So then, go ahead and apply to the private sector. If you all are as amazing as you claim, you will get snatched up

Complaining and whining is easier though

+1. I really hope to see in a couple months time, the number of resignations across the federal workforce.

Why? What benefits to the American people are realized by demoralizing the federal workforce and driving the best employees out?

Misery loves company. That is the only explanation for PP’s hopes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Please don’t act like the average Fed is logging in at night to work. Most of them do their 8 hours and whatever gets done, gets done. I don’t say this pejoratively btw. I would love to do that.

I have done it so many times after the kids were in bed. I'm a night owl and actually very productive in the evening.

I've also done it, largely because we communicate with the West Coast and with Europe regularly. I have to be on calls at 3am sometimes. I've also been called into meeting with domestic staff at 6pm or later.

Yes, I imagine many/most feds don't have these kinds of jobs, but that just suggests there be....gasp....the flexibility there is now wrt telework agreements.

Truth. I’m about to start working with some folks in Asia and prior to this nonsense I was prepared to get up early/log back on late to make it work. Now I really do not GAF. they can work around my strict 9-530 DC time schedule.

You sound like a stellar employee. Sub-par is more likely. You would not survive outside the government

You can go cry in your pillow then. before this attack on us, I was very motivated to work with my folks and smooth the path for them and go the extra mile. Now I will do my best but it will be strictly from 9-5:30 and on my terms.

This seems like a good idea when your boss is looking for any and all reasons to get rid of you. Bye!

[Anonymous]

PPs saying that feds can't make it the private sector are just worried that they will be facing 10x more competition for their jobs, and as such their benefits are going to suffer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Please don’t act like the average Fed is logging in at night to work. Most of them do their 8 hours and whatever gets done, gets done. I don’t say this pejoratively btw. I would love to do that.

I have done it so many times after the kids were in bed. I'm a night owl and actually very productive in the evening.

I've also done it, largely because we communicate with the West Coast and with Europe regularly. I have to be on calls at 3am sometimes. I've also been called into meeting with domestic staff at 6pm or later.

Yes, I imagine many/most feds don't have these kinds of jobs, but that just suggests there be....gasp....the flexibility there is now wrt telework agreements.

Truth. I’m about to start working with some folks in Asia and prior to this nonsense I was prepared to get up early/log back on late to make it work. Now I really do not GAF. they can work around my strict 9-530 DC time schedule.

You sound like a stellar employee. Sub-par is more likely. You would not survive outside the government

You can go cry in your pillow then. before this attack on us, I was very motivated to work with my folks and smooth the path for them and go the extra mile. Now I will do my best but it will be strictly from 9-5:30 and on my terms.

This seems like a good idea when your boss is looking for any and all reasons to get rid of you. Bye!

Boss can't figure you for doing your job and working the negotiated hours. At least not in federal government. I get that's your experience in the private sector, though. Sorry to hear that.

[Anonymous]

=="fire" you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

What fantasy world do you live in? Tell me you’ve never worked in the private sector without telling me. Private does not pay better for someone with your skills. Also the vast vast vast majority of private companies do not allow telework.

This (unfortunately)

..is a lie. FIFY. Private sector indeed pays better and offers better flexibility if I can find a job. Which could be an issue given that the local market is about to be flooded with people fleeing government. I serve because I believe that I am helping the American people, and the stability and flexibility has always made up for the lower pay. It’s been a nice career. I’m disappointed to see things go this way.

It is not a great market. That is why so many companies have been able to RTO over the past few years while keeping salaries stagnant and cutting pandemic-era perks and benefits. Many people are staying put and grinding it out because there is nothing better out there.

I meant to add that you should certainly try to find something better, but you should also manage your expectations about private sector opportunities being much better.

They’ll be better because they are driven by their bottom line to retain the best employees, and will offer better terms of employment than the government offers to attract top talent. Government doesn’t appear to want to keep top talent anymore.

I work for a large private employer and we’ve done a RIF about every other month for the last year and a half. None of the posters on here would survive in the private sector. You’d all die of a crippling panic attack day 2 on the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PPs saying that feds can't make it the private sector are just worried that they will be facing 10x more competition for their jobs, and as such their benefits are going to suffer.

I'm not going after PP's job. I have a graduate STEM degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PPs saying that feds can't make it the private sector are just worried that they will be facing 10x more competition for their jobs, and as such their benefits are going to suffer.

PP is almost certainly some kind of low-level contractor who has no idea what highly trained feds actually do, and is intensely jealous they never could land a GS-11 job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

What fantasy world do you live in? Tell me you’ve never worked in the private sector without telling me. Private does not pay better for someone with your skills. Also the vast vast vast majority of private companies do not allow telework.

This (unfortunately)

..is a lie. FIFY. Private sector indeed pays better and offers better flexibility if I can find a job. Which could be an issue given that the local market is about to be flooded with people fleeing government. I serve because I believe that I am helping the American people, and the stability and flexibility has always made up for the lower pay. It’s been a nice career. I’m disappointed to see things go this way.

It is not a great market. That is why so many companies have been able to RTO over the past few years while keeping salaries stagnant and cutting pandemic-era perks and benefits. Many people are staying put and grinding it out because there is nothing better out there.

I meant to add that you should certainly try to find something better, but you should also manage your expectations about private sector opportunities being much better.

They’ll be better because they are driven by their bottom line to retain the best employees, and will offer better terms of employment than the government offers to attract top talent. Government doesn’t appear to want to keep top talent anymore.

I work for a large private employer and we’ve done a RIF about every other month for the last year and a half. None of the posters on here would survive in the private sector. You’d all die of a crippling panic attack day 2 on the job.

did you offer severance? what were pay and benefits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs saying that feds can't make it the private sector are just worried that they will be facing 10x more competition for their jobs, and as such their benefits are going to suffer.

PP is almost certainly some kind of low-level contractor who has no idea what highly trained feds actually do, and is intensely jealous they never could land a GS-11 job.

ah yes, likely true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

What fantasy world do you live in? Tell me you’ve never worked in the private sector without telling me. Private does not pay better for someone with your skills. Also the vast vast vast majority of private companies do not allow telework.

This (unfortunately)

..is a lie. FIFY. Private sector indeed pays better and offers better flexibility if I can find a job. Which could be an issue given that the local market is about to be flooded with people fleeing government. I serve because I believe that I am helping the American people, and the stability and flexibility has always made up for the lower pay. It’s been a nice career. I’m disappointed to see things go this way.

It is not a great market. That is why so many companies have been able to RTO over the past few years while keeping salaries stagnant and cutting pandemic-era perks and benefits. Many people are staying put and grinding it out because there is nothing better out there.

I meant to add that you should certainly try to find something better, but you should also manage your expectations about private sector opportunities being much better.

They’ll be better because they are driven by their bottom line to retain the best employees, and will offer better terms of employment than the government offers to attract top talent. Government doesn’t appear to want to keep top talent anymore.

I work for a large private employer and we’ve done a RIF about every other month for the last year and a half. None of the posters on here would survive in the private sector. You’d all die of a crippling panic attack day 2 on the job.

did you offer severance? what were pay and benefits?

… and tell us about your telework policy lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of 2023, 45% of workers than can do their work remotely work hybrid. Another 35% work full remote. Only 12% never work at home. The new policy is way out of step ans everyone knows it. They don’t care. No point arguing.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/30/about-a-third-of-us-workers-who-can-work-from-home-do-so-all-the-time/

That was still coming out of the pandemic. Early 2024 it was 80% RTO 5 days with 20% split between hybrid and remote. It’s likely even less hybrid and remote in early 2025.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/08/business/economy/remote-work-home.html

Stop it. that represents all workers. We’re talking about white collar.

The survey of fewer than 6,000 people was conducted between Feb 6-12 2023, two years ago. It’s outdated and probably not entirely representative of white collar employees. The number in Feb 2025 will probably be what it was pre-pandemic ~10 points lower.

I also don’t understand the point you are trying to make. If 25% of white collar jobs are currently done remotely that doesn’t prove that the individuals currently working remotely should continue to work remotely.