Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

how many people in Mt Vernon go to the games? What percentage?

hint: not very many. MOST of the patrons for the Caps and Wizards are coming from DC and MD. So Ted is putting a huge burden on those fans to continue to come to the games

You don't even know what you are talking about. A bunch of the actual Caps live in Old Town.

"a bunch" - what, maybe 5% of caps fans and 2% of Wizards fans? Yes, the team lives all over the place. John Carlson lives in Bethesda. So what?

Sure, so those folks will be able to walk/bike trapes their way north to get to the site. Everyone else will be cramming into Metro or trying to make their way south on RT from Glebe and 395 etc and the road capacity there isn't anywhere close to being able to handle it.

[Anonymous]

Fan numbers won't increase by moving the stadium. It doesn't make more people care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

how many people in Mt Vernon go to the games? What percentage?

hint: not very many. MOST of the patrons for the Caps and Wizards are coming from DC and MD. So Ted is putting a huge burden on those fans to continue to come to the games

You don't even know what you are talking about. A bunch of the actual Caps live in Old Town.

I see plenty of us riding the Yellow Line to the game. That's how I manage to negotiate metro most of the time. I just follow the flood of jerseys.

The point is, when people from all over the region take the metro to gallery place, ALL of the trains have red-clad fans riding to the middle of the region. The billion dollar question is if given the scenario of an additional hour of travel time each night, will fans from throughout the region still make their way to games? Or will Ted need to hope that there are more fans who live closer to Potomac Yards who are willing and able to make the 5 figure investment in ticket packages,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fan numbers won't increase by moving the stadium. It doesn't make more people care.

I would argue that this move will alienate a lot of DC and MD fans who simply will watch the games on TV or do something else with their entertainment dollars.

The wizards have been irrelevant for decades and the Caps have only been supported in the Ovi era. Once he retires, will people care, unless the team is able to draft another generational talent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

how many people in Mt Vernon go to the games? What percentage?

hint: not very many. MOST of the patrons for the Caps and Wizards are coming from DC and MD. So Ted is putting a huge burden on those fans to continue to come to the games

You don't even know what you are talking about. A bunch of the actual Caps live in Old Town.

"a bunch" - what, maybe 5% of caps fans and 2% of Wizards fans? Yes, the team lives all over the place. John Carlson lives in Bethesda. So what?

Sure, so those folks will be able to walk/bike trapes their way north to get to the site. Everyone else will be cramming into Metro or trying to make their way south on RT from Glebe and 395 etc and the road capacity there isn't anywhere close to being able to handle it.

Moving the goal posts now? I guess you're just pissed you lost the stadium. Ha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Chinatown hasn't changed, right guys?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/money/business/clydes-email-threaten-to-close-crime-not-addressed-in-dc/65-0d63f5c4-b736-4d38-9ec3-08af2f4548fe

Our business is enjoying record profits right now (despite the problems in Gallery Place) but we may close when the teams move.

If the crime were such an issue, that particular location wouldn't be very profitable, now would it?

Wasn't China town well known for the highest national theft from the Loft or whatever retailer was there? The losses were being absorbed by the parent company, obviously.

I don't understand the transportation arguments. I don't find the Capitol One Arena easy to get to at all from NOVA.

The transportation argument is pretty straightforward. Gallery Place is literally in the middle of the entire metropolitan region. The arena sits on 3 metro lines and is a block from the other three. In other words, no matter where in the region you are, you can get there by metro very easily. Add to it that it sits in the middle of an urban grid with buildings all around that provide parking, so if you decide to drive there, there is ample parking in the vicinity, and if you want to park closer and deal with post game traffic, you can, if you want to park further away and have the walk but not post game traffic, you have those options. Union station is a few blocks away so you can bus/train etc there pretty easily.

Compare that to the proposed location that basically is only served by Route 1, which, right now, today, is a traffic nightmare and particularly during rush hour, when presumably, most fans would be trying to get to a game on a weeknight. The site is served near the end of the blue/yellow line, which means that anyone trying to metro from points north and west would need to transfer in Rossyln or one of the downtown stations. As such, most people trying to metro to a game will have at least a half hour more of travel time each way, even people in Fairfax who would need to take the orange/silver and transfer to the Blue. If you live in Silver Spring or north, or west, you are adding even more time.

In other words, while the location is somewhat in the middle of the region if you zoom out on a map, for practical purposes, there isn't the infrastructure - either road or public transit, for most people to get to the site in an efficient manner. That will deter the average fan from coming, particularly to weeknight games and for people who have ticket plans, the added 1+ hour of travel time makes attending games and getting home at a reasonable hour almost impossible.

And to add insult to injury, Metro is in a financial straights right now in the post COVID environment, and Virginia and Gov. Youngkin specifically, have refused to offer to fill its 1/3 of the shortfall to maintain service, so with that Metro is proposing cuts that includes suspending services to the lowest performing metro stations (which includes Potomac Yards) and many bus lines. So, if the governor isn't willing to commit state funds to cover the shortfall, then that metro station won't even be in service to serve the new arena.

And...that new station was designs for 10,000 or so trips per day, not 16,000 trips in an hour, so it will require about $300M to upgrade it the way DC paid to upgrade both Gallery Place and Navy Yard stations to accommodate a professional sports venue surge of use.

This is a good summary of the transportation issues. It seems like a terrible idea unless for Leonsis, the development potential at PY outweighs any concerns about drawing spectators to games. It seems they’d be connected but maybe it still pencils out (at least for him if not for fans or local residents who’ll be living in traffic Armageddon). I think a big issue not covered above is the possible impact on airport traffic. This seems like a terrible location if for no other reason than that.

I think it is clear that Leonsis doesn't care about having fans in the arena. He will make enough off the land deals and TV contracts that the concessions and fan tickets won't be an issue. Of course, that is what pays for the bonds, which is why the people of Alexandria will be left holding the bag.

Exactly. It’s just about the money.

Leonsis and Youngkin DGAF about the fans or the residents of DC/VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is clear that Leonsis doesn't care about having fans in the arena. He will make enough off the land deals and TV contracts that the concessions and fan tickets won't be an issue. Of course, that is what pays for the bonds, which is why the people of Alexandria will be left holding the bag.

The NHL is not the NFL. NHL teams need fans in the arena. The NHL's domestic media rights package for the current 2023-24 has a value of $625 million. That's five percent of the NFL's package, 23 percent of the NBA's deal, and one-third of MLB. $625 million averages out to $19.5 million per NHL team. True, football, basketball, and baseball don't have a sizable international media presence; hockey does. But a Canadian television audience still doesn't get the NHL anywhere close to the other three leagues.

During the Covid-shortened 2019-20 season, NHL owners were panicked over lost revenue paying before empty seats. And for good reason. In that season, the Washington Capitals generated $1.88 million in gate receipts and $2.5 million in concessions per home game. For a full season, that's $77 million at the door and $103 million in food and merchandise for a total of $180 million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Chinatown hasn't changed, right guys?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/money/business/clydes-email-threaten-to-close-crime-not-addressed-in-dc/65-0d63f5c4-b736-4d38-9ec3-08af2f4548fe

Our business is enjoying record profits right now (despite the problems in Gallery Place) but we may close when the teams move.

If the crime were such an issue, that particular location wouldn't be very profitable, now would it?

Wasn't China town well known for the highest national theft from the Loft or whatever retailer was there? The losses were being absorbed by the parent company, obviously.

I don't understand the transportation arguments. I don't find the Capitol One Arena easy to get to at all from NOVA.

The transportation argument is pretty straightforward. Gallery Place is literally in the middle of the entire metropolitan region. The arena sits on 3 metro lines and is a block from the other three. In other words, no matter where in the region you are, you can get there by metro very easily. Add to it that it sits in the middle of an urban grid with buildings all around that provide parking, so if you decide to drive there, there is ample parking in the vicinity, and if you want to park closer and deal with post game traffic, you can, if you want to park further away and have the walk but not post game traffic, you have those options. Union station is a few blocks away so you can bus/train etc there pretty easily.

Compare that to the proposed location that basically is only served by Route 1, which, right now, today, is a traffic nightmare and particularly during rush hour, when presumably, most fans would be trying to get to a game on a weeknight. The site is served near the end of the blue/yellow line, which means that anyone trying to metro from points north and west would need to transfer in Rossyln or one of the downtown stations. As such, most people trying to metro to a game will have at least a half hour more of travel time each way, even people in Fairfax who would need to take the orange/silver and transfer to the Blue. If you live in Silver Spring or north, or west, you are adding even more time.

In other words, while the location is somewhat in the middle of the region if you zoom out on a map, for practical purposes, there isn't the infrastructure - either road or public transit, for most people to get to the site in an efficient manner. That will deter the average fan from coming, particularly to weeknight games and for people who have ticket plans, the added 1+ hour of travel time makes attending games and getting home at a reasonable hour almost impossible.

And to add insult to injury, Metro is in a financial straights right now in the post COVID environment, and Virginia and Gov. Youngkin specifically, have refused to offer to fill its 1/3 of the shortfall to maintain service, so with that Metro is proposing cuts that includes suspending services to the lowest performing metro stations (which includes Potomac Yards) and many bus lines. So, if the governor isn't willing to commit state funds to cover the shortfall, then that metro station won't even be in service to serve the new arena.

And...that new station was designs for 10,000 or so trips per day, not 16,000 trips in an hour, so it will require about $300M to upgrade it the way DC paid to upgrade both Gallery Place and Navy Yard stations to accommodate a professional sports venue surge of use.

You can take a party ferry from MD to Alexandria.

And then once in Alexandria, how do you get to the new Arena? You have to make your way, along with thousands of others, up Route 1.

If you can't handle going up Route 1 then you can just go to Bugsy's and continue drinking with other fans. The crowds there are just a bit rowdier than the route 1 road ragers though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fan numbers won't increase by moving the stadium. It doesn't make more people care.

I would argue that this move will alienate a lot of DC and MD fans who simply will watch the games on TV or do something else with their entertainment dollars.

The wizards have been irrelevant for decades and the Caps have only been supported in the Ovi era. Once he retires, will people care, unless the team is able to draft another generational talent?

Yep Ted is a terrible owner. His record of losing teams year after year is well defined. This just goes to show it better to be lucky vs competent. He made a lucky score to get rich and he has milked that one success for everything. He is in the Den Snyder category of owners.

[Anonymous]

I predict the mayor to follow up on her recent statements to offer up the FBI site. This owner wants the prestige that comes with shiny, new, and very large. Chinatown doesn’t offer that, and the neighborhood’s reputation has suffered. Only 20 years ago Gallery Place had the city’s flagship Benetton store. Now the neighborhood is a sad shell of its former self.

Only a Pennsylvania Ave location will match the owner’s ego, and the desire for a large campus style arena with fan plazas, outdoor/indoor performing arts venues, hotels and retail/restaurants.

The Mayor will then burnish her image and can proclaim herself to be the savior of Pennsylvania Ave, the country’s “main street.” It’s been an ongoing effort since the Kennedy administration, and there are still none of the promised sidewalk cafes and restaurants, a la Paris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I predict the mayor to follow up on her recent statements to offer up the FBI site. This owner wants the prestige that comes with shiny, new, and very large. Chinatown doesn’t offer that, and the neighborhood’s reputation has suffered. Only 20 years ago Gallery Place had the city’s flagship Benetton store. Now the neighborhood is a sad shell of its former self.

Only a Pennsylvania Ave location will match the owner’s ego, and the desire for a large campus style arena with fan plazas, outdoor/indoor performing arts venues, hotels and retail/restaurants.

The Mayor will then burnish her image and can proclaim herself to be the savior of Pennsylvania Ave, the country’s “main street.” It’s been an ongoing effort since the Kennedy administration, and there are still none of the promised sidewalk cafes and restaurants, a la Paris.

It's easy to offer someone else's property, it's another thing to be able to deliverl

[Anonymous]

FBI site is too small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FBI site is too small.

The FBI site is bigger than the current arena footprint, but not including the adjacent Gallery Place shopping center.

At the FBI site, there should be plenty of room for the fan plaza. The arena could also be partially buried underground and a hotel could be built on top of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FBI site is too small.

The FBI site is bigger than the current arena footprint, but not including the adjacent Gallery Place shopping center.

At the FBI site, there should be plenty of room for the fan plaza. The arena could also be partially buried underground and a hotel could be built on top of it.

Current site is 5 acres. FBI site is 3.2 acres.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FBI site is too small.

The FBI site is bigger than the current arena footprint, but not including the adjacent Gallery Place shopping center.

At the FBI site, there should be plenty of room for the fan plaza. The arena could also be partially buried underground and a hotel could be built on top of it.

Current site is 5 acres. FBI site is 3.2 acres.

Looking at a satellite view, the FBI site is quite a bit larger than the current arena footprint, with plenty of room for all the amenities. Of course the current arena is larger if the entire block with the failing shopping center is included.

Pen Ave provides the owner with a prestige location, even though it’s smaller than the Potomac Yard site.