Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gov. Youngkin is a deal-making master of the universe. Go Virginia!

Absolutely!!!! Let's use public money to make billionaires wealthier. Then do the low taxes, small gubmint routine.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the city council will vote this down. Seems they will be handing a win to Youngkin, a presidential hopeful, and making taxpayers make a billionaire wealthier. The DC mayor said there’s a possibility this won’t go through and she cited some other failed project in northern VA, but I suspect Ted Leonsis will just find another location in mD or VA if he really doesn’t want to stay in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Chinatown hasn't changed, right guys?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/money/business/clydes-email-threaten-to-close-crime-not-addressed-in-dc/65-0d63f5c4-b736-4d38-9ec3-08af2f4548fe

Our business is enjoying record profits right now (despite the problems in Gallery Place) but we may close when the teams move.

If the crime were such an issue, that particular location wouldn't be very profitable, now would it?

Wasn't China town well known for the highest national theft from the Loft or whatever retailer was there? The losses were being absorbed by the parent company, obviously.

I don't understand the transportation arguments. I don't find the Capitol One Arena easy to get to at all from NOVA.

The transportation argument is pretty straightforward. Gallery Place is literally in the middle of the entire metropolitan region. The arena sits on 3 metro lines and is a block from the other three. In other words, no matter where in the region you are, you can get there by metro very easily. Add to it that it sits in the middle of an urban grid with buildings all around that provide parking, so if you decide to drive there, there is ample parking in the vicinity, and if you want to park closer and deal with post game traffic, you can, if you want to park further away and have the walk but not post game traffic, you have those options. Union station is a few blocks away so you can bus/train etc there pretty easily.

Compare that to the proposed location that basically is only served by Route 1, which, right now, today, is a traffic nightmare and particularly during rush hour, when presumably, most fans would be trying to get to a game on a weeknight. The site is served near the end of the blue/yellow line, which means that anyone trying to metro from points north and west would need to transfer in Rossyln or one of the downtown stations. As such, most people trying to metro to a game will have at least a half hour more of travel time each way, even people in Fairfax who would need to take the orange/silver and transfer to the Blue. If you live in Silver Spring or north, or west, you are adding even more time.

In other words, while the location is somewhat in the middle of the region if you zoom out on a map, for practical purposes, there isn't the infrastructure - either road or public transit, for most people to get to the site in an efficient manner. That will deter the average fan from coming, particularly to weeknight games and for people who have ticket plans, the added 1+ hour of travel time makes attending games and getting home at a reasonable hour almost impossible.

And to add insult to injury, Metro is in a financial straights right now in the post COVID environment, and Virginia and Gov. Youngkin specifically, have refused to offer to fill its 1/3 of the shortfall to maintain service, so with that Metro is proposing cuts that includes suspending services to the lowest performing metro stations (which includes Potomac Yards) and many bus lines. So, if the governor isn't willing to commit state funds to cover the shortfall, then that metro station won't even be in service to serve the new arena.

And...that new station was designs for 10,000 or so trips per day, not 16,000 trips in an hour, so it will require about $300M to upgrade it the way DC paid to upgrade both Gallery Place and Navy Yard stations to accommodate a professional sports venue surge of use.

You can take a party ferry from MD to Alexandria.

And then once in Alexandria, how do you get to the new Arena? You have to make your way, along with thousands of others, up Route 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the city council will vote this down. Seems they will be handing a win to Youngkin, a presidential hopeful, and making taxpayers make a billionaire wealthier. The DC mayor said there’s a possibility this won’t go through and she cited some other failed project in northern VA, but I suspect Ted Leonsis will just find another location in mD or VA if he really doesn’t want to stay in DC.

He will take the 500-600M offered by DC. Heck if the feds get it together and give DC the RFK and FBI sites, then there will be room for Ted to do something similar in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Chinatown hasn't changed, right guys?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/money/business/clydes-email-threaten-to-close-crime-not-addressed-in-dc/65-0d63f5c4-b736-4d38-9ec3-08af2f4548fe

Our business is enjoying record profits right now (despite the problems in Gallery Place) but we may close when the teams move.

If the crime were such an issue, that particular location wouldn't be very profitable, now would it?

Wasn't China town well known for the highest national theft from the Loft or whatever retailer was there? The losses were being absorbed by the parent company, obviously.

I don't understand the transportation arguments. I don't find the Capitol One Arena easy to get to at all from NOVA.

The transportation argument is pretty straightforward. Gallery Place is literally in the middle of the entire metropolitan region. The arena sits on 3 metro lines and is a block from the other three. In other words, no matter where in the region you are, you can get there by metro very easily. Add to it that it sits in the middle of an urban grid with buildings all around that provide parking, so if you decide to drive there, there is ample parking in the vicinity, and if you want to park closer and deal with post game traffic, you can, if you want to park further away and have the walk but not post game traffic, you have those options. Union station is a few blocks away so you can bus/train etc there pretty easily.

Compare that to the proposed location that basically is only served by Route 1, which, right now, today, is a traffic nightmare and particularly during rush hour, when presumably, most fans would be trying to get to a game on a weeknight. The site is served near the end of the blue/yellow line, which means that anyone trying to metro from points north and west would need to transfer in Rossyln or one of the downtown stations. As such, most people trying to metro to a game will have at least a half hour more of travel time each way, even people in Fairfax who would need to take the orange/silver and transfer to the Blue. If you live in Silver Spring or north, or west, you are adding even more time.

In other words, while the location is somewhat in the middle of the region if you zoom out on a map, for practical purposes, there isn't the infrastructure - either road or public transit, for most people to get to the site in an efficient manner. That will deter the average fan from coming, particularly to weeknight games and for people who have ticket plans, the added 1+ hour of travel time makes attending games and getting home at a reasonable hour almost impossible.

And to add insult to injury, Metro is in a financial straights right now in the post COVID environment, and Virginia and Gov. Youngkin specifically, have refused to offer to fill its 1/3 of the shortfall to maintain service, so with that Metro is proposing cuts that includes suspending services to the lowest performing metro stations (which includes Potomac Yards) and many bus lines. So, if the governor isn't willing to commit state funds to cover the shortfall, then that metro station won't even be in service to serve the new arena.

And...that new station was designs for 10,000 or so trips per day, not 16,000 trips in an hour, so it will require about $300M to upgrade it the way DC paid to upgrade both Gallery Place and Navy Yard stations to accommodate a professional sports venue surge of use.

Maybe letting everyone ride for free wasn't the best idea???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Chinatown hasn't changed, right guys?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/money/business/clydes-email-threaten-to-close-crime-not-addressed-in-dc/65-0d63f5c4-b736-4d38-9ec3-08af2f4548fe

Our business is enjoying record profits right now (despite the problems in Gallery Place) but we may close when the teams move.

If the crime were such an issue, that particular location wouldn't be very profitable, now would it?

Wasn't China town well known for the highest national theft from the Loft or whatever retailer was there? The losses were being absorbed by the parent company, obviously.

I don't understand the transportation arguments. I don't find the Capitol One Arena easy to get to at all from NOVA.

The transportation argument is pretty straightforward. Gallery Place is literally in the middle of the entire metropolitan region. The arena sits on 3 metro lines and is a block from the other three. In other words, no matter where in the region you are, you can get there by metro very easily. Add to it that it sits in the middle of an urban grid with buildings all around that provide parking, so if you decide to drive there, there is ample parking in the vicinity, and if you want to park closer and deal with post game traffic, you can, if you want to park further away and have the walk but not post game traffic, you have those options. Union station is a few blocks away so you can bus/train etc there pretty easily.

Compare that to the proposed location that basically is only served by Route 1, which, right now, today, is a traffic nightmare and particularly during rush hour, when presumably, most fans would be trying to get to a game on a weeknight. The site is served near the end of the blue/yellow line, which means that anyone trying to metro from points north and west would need to transfer in Rossyln or one of the downtown stations. As such, most people trying to metro to a game will have at least a half hour more of travel time each way, even people in Fairfax who would need to take the orange/silver and transfer to the Blue. If you live in Silver Spring or north, or west, you are adding even more time.

In other words, while the location is somewhat in the middle of the region if you zoom out on a map, for practical purposes, there isn't the infrastructure - either road or public transit, for most people to get to the site in an efficient manner. That will deter the average fan from coming, particularly to weeknight games and for people who have ticket plans, the added 1+ hour of travel time makes attending games and getting home at a reasonable hour almost impossible.

And to add insult to injury, Metro is in a financial straights right now in the post COVID environment, and Virginia and Gov. Youngkin specifically, have refused to offer to fill its 1/3 of the shortfall to maintain service, so with that Metro is proposing cuts that includes suspending services to the lowest performing metro stations (which includes Potomac Yards) and many bus lines. So, if the governor isn't willing to commit state funds to cover the shortfall, then that metro station won't even be in service to serve the new arena.

And...that new station was designs for 10,000 or so trips per day, not 16,000 trips in an hour, so it will require about $300M to upgrade it the way DC paid to upgrade both Gallery Place and Navy Yard stations to accommodate a professional sports venue surge of use.

This is a good summary of the transportation issues. It seems like a terrible idea unless for Leonsis, the development potential at PY outweighs any concerns about drawing spectators to games. It seems they’d be connected but maybe it still pencils out (at least for him if not for fans or local residents who’ll be living in traffic Armageddon). I think a big issue not covered above is the possible impact on airport traffic. This seems like a terrible location if for no other reason than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

how many people in Mt Vernon go to the games? What percentage?

hint: not very many. MOST of the patrons for the Caps and Wizards are coming from DC and MD. So Ted is putting a huge burden on those fans to continue to come to the games

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Walk through Chinatown for 10 minutes this afternoon and I 100% guarantee you'll experience all of the following things: people selling stolen goods, people openly injecting drugs, marijuana clouds so thick you can hardly breathe, mentally unwell people on the verge of assaulting others, teenagers screaming the N word at each other. And you wonder why I don't want to take my six-year-old son to a basketball game in that environment?

I thought the Mayor had the city set up the high pitched audio sounds that deter loitering all around the arena and Gallery Place. Apparently only kids under 25 or so can hear these annoying sounds, but I can actually hear them too and they drive me nuts. Most of the Metro entrances play these sounds also to deter loitering and criminal behavior.

Hahaha - is that true? That’s awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

how many people in Mt Vernon go to the games? What percentage?

hint: not very many. MOST of the patrons for the Caps and Wizards are coming from DC and MD. So Ted is putting a huge burden on those fans to continue to come to the games

That doesn't change geography, does it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Chinatown hasn't changed, right guys?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/money/business/clydes-email-threaten-to-close-crime-not-addressed-in-dc/65-0d63f5c4-b736-4d38-9ec3-08af2f4548fe

Our business is enjoying record profits right now (despite the problems in Gallery Place) but we may close when the teams move.

If the crime were such an issue, that particular location wouldn't be very profitable, now would it?

Wasn't China town well known for the highest national theft from the Loft or whatever retailer was there? The losses were being absorbed by the parent company, obviously.

I don't understand the transportation arguments. I don't find the Capitol One Arena easy to get to at all from NOVA.

The transportation argument is pretty straightforward. Gallery Place is literally in the middle of the entire metropolitan region. The arena sits on 3 metro lines and is a block from the other three. In other words, no matter where in the region you are, you can get there by metro very easily. Add to it that it sits in the middle of an urban grid with buildings all around that provide parking, so if you decide to drive there, there is ample parking in the vicinity, and if you want to park closer and deal with post game traffic, you can, if you want to park further away and have the walk but not post game traffic, you have those options. Union station is a few blocks away so you can bus/train etc there pretty easily.

Compare that to the proposed location that basically is only served by Route 1, which, right now, today, is a traffic nightmare and particularly during rush hour, when presumably, most fans would be trying to get to a game on a weeknight. The site is served near the end of the blue/yellow line, which means that anyone trying to metro from points north and west would need to transfer in Rossyln or one of the downtown stations. As such, most people trying to metro to a game will have at least a half hour more of travel time each way, even people in Fairfax who would need to take the orange/silver and transfer to the Blue. If you live in Silver Spring or north, or west, you are adding even more time.

In other words, while the location is somewhat in the middle of the region if you zoom out on a map, for practical purposes, there isn't the infrastructure - either road or public transit, for most people to get to the site in an efficient manner. That will deter the average fan from coming, particularly to weeknight games and for people who have ticket plans, the added 1+ hour of travel time makes attending games and getting home at a reasonable hour almost impossible.

And to add insult to injury, Metro is in a financial straights right now in the post COVID environment, and Virginia and Gov. Youngkin specifically, have refused to offer to fill its 1/3 of the shortfall to maintain service, so with that Metro is proposing cuts that includes suspending services to the lowest performing metro stations (which includes Potomac Yards) and many bus lines. So, if the governor isn't willing to commit state funds to cover the shortfall, then that metro station won't even be in service to serve the new arena.

And...that new station was designs for 10,000 or so trips per day, not 16,000 trips in an hour, so it will require about $300M to upgrade it the way DC paid to upgrade both Gallery Place and Navy Yard stations to accommodate a professional sports venue surge of use.

Maybe letting everyone ride for free wasn't the best idea???

There has never been a time when ridership covered the cost of operating the system. The states subsidize it because it is cheaper and more effective than trying to have enough road capacity to move all of those people. If the system shut down, the infrastructure in the region wouldn't come close to being able to handle the capacity on surface roads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

how many people in Mt Vernon go to the games? What percentage?

hint: not very many. MOST of the patrons for the Caps and Wizards are coming from DC and MD. So Ted is putting a huge burden on those fans to continue to come to the games

You don't even know what you are talking about. A bunch of the actual Caps live in Old Town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Chinatown hasn't changed, right guys?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/money/business/clydes-email-threaten-to-close-crime-not-addressed-in-dc/65-0d63f5c4-b736-4d38-9ec3-08af2f4548fe

Our business is enjoying record profits right now (despite the problems in Gallery Place) but we may close when the teams move.

If the crime were such an issue, that particular location wouldn't be very profitable, now would it?

Wasn't China town well known for the highest national theft from the Loft or whatever retailer was there? The losses were being absorbed by the parent company, obviously.

I don't understand the transportation arguments. I don't find the Capitol One Arena easy to get to at all from NOVA.

The transportation argument is pretty straightforward. Gallery Place is literally in the middle of the entire metropolitan region. The arena sits on 3 metro lines and is a block from the other three. In other words, no matter where in the region you are, you can get there by metro very easily. Add to it that it sits in the middle of an urban grid with buildings all around that provide parking, so if you decide to drive there, there is ample parking in the vicinity, and if you want to park closer and deal with post game traffic, you can, if you want to park further away and have the walk but not post game traffic, you have those options. Union station is a few blocks away so you can bus/train etc there pretty easily.

Compare that to the proposed location that basically is only served by Route 1, which, right now, today, is a traffic nightmare and particularly during rush hour, when presumably, most fans would be trying to get to a game on a weeknight. The site is served near the end of the blue/yellow line, which means that anyone trying to metro from points north and west would need to transfer in Rossyln or one of the downtown stations. As such, most people trying to metro to a game will have at least a half hour more of travel time each way, even people in Fairfax who would need to take the orange/silver and transfer to the Blue. If you live in Silver Spring or north, or west, you are adding even more time.

In other words, while the location is somewhat in the middle of the region if you zoom out on a map, for practical purposes, there isn't the infrastructure - either road or public transit, for most people to get to the site in an efficient manner. That will deter the average fan from coming, particularly to weeknight games and for people who have ticket plans, the added 1+ hour of travel time makes attending games and getting home at a reasonable hour almost impossible.

And to add insult to injury, Metro is in a financial straights right now in the post COVID environment, and Virginia and Gov. Youngkin specifically, have refused to offer to fill its 1/3 of the shortfall to maintain service, so with that Metro is proposing cuts that includes suspending services to the lowest performing metro stations (which includes Potomac Yards) and many bus lines. So, if the governor isn't willing to commit state funds to cover the shortfall, then that metro station won't even be in service to serve the new arena.

And...that new station was designs for 10,000 or so trips per day, not 16,000 trips in an hour, so it will require about $300M to upgrade it the way DC paid to upgrade both Gallery Place and Navy Yard stations to accommodate a professional sports venue surge of use.

This is a good summary of the transportation issues. It seems like a terrible idea unless for Leonsis, the development potential at PY outweighs any concerns about drawing spectators to games. It seems they’d be connected but maybe it still pencils out (at least for him if not for fans or local residents who’ll be living in traffic Armageddon). I think a big issue not covered above is the possible impact on airport traffic. This seems like a terrible location if for no other reason than that.

I think it is clear that Leonsis doesn't care about having fans in the arena. He will make enough off the land deals and TV contracts that the concessions and fan tickets won't be an issue. Of course, that is what pays for the bonds, which is why the people of Alexandria will be left holding the bag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the city council will vote this down. Seems they will be handing a win to Youngkin, a presidential hopeful, and making taxpayers make a billionaire wealthier. The DC mayor said there’s a possibility this won’t go through and she cited some other failed project in northern VA, but I suspect Ted Leonsis will just find another location in mD or VA if he really doesn’t want to stay in DC.

He will take the 500-600M offered by DC. Heck if the feds get it together and give DC the RFK and FBI sites, then there will be room for Ted to do something similar in DC.

And in as little as 10 years, the FBI will move out of the Hoover Building so construction can start on the new arena. In two years, Ted can start building in Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People talk about Route 1 traffic, but the center of population in NoVa is Fairfax & Loudoun Counties. Those fans will have to drive on Little River Turnpike, or Route 7/King St. to get to the facilities. Or take the Orange/Silver Lines to Rosslyn and change trains. Really?

Unless one lives in Crystal City, Pentagon City or Del Ray, the site is basically inaccessible for everyone else by adding at least an hour of total travel time as compare to getting to Gallery Place.

Really? DC is closer to Mt Vernon than Alexandria is? Huh, TIL.

how many people in Mt Vernon go to the games? What percentage?

hint: not very many. MOST of the patrons for the Caps and Wizards are coming from DC and MD. So Ted is putting a huge burden on those fans to continue to come to the games

You don't even know what you are talking about. A bunch of the actual Caps live in Old Town.

I see plenty of us riding the Yellow Line to the game. That's how I manage to negotiate metro most of the time. I just follow the flood of jerseys.