What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

NP but seriously! I love my dog but he is not on the same level as a human family member. Absolutely I’d save my baby and husband before my dog. The dog is an animal.

People are assuming (perhaps reasonably) that the dog faltered first, but what if it was one of the parents? Do you help your spouse get settled in a shady area with water to drink and take off on your own to get help? Or do you stick together and try to help them even though it slows you down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

NP but seriously! I love my dog but he is not on the same level as a human family member. Absolutely I’d save my baby and husband before my dog. The dog is an animal.

People are assuming (perhaps reasonably) that the dog faltered first, but what if it was one of the parents? Do you help your spouse get settled in a shady area with water to drink and take off on your own to get help? Or do you stick together and try to help them even though it slows you down?

There was a fire that burned through the area, there is no shade available on that trail.
Then with the temperatures soaring above 100 degrees, the ground will burn a dog's feet unless it's wearing something to protect it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand why it's being proposed but the heat stroke theory doesn't ring true to me. All dropped dead within feet of each other? If one was in distress, wouldn't everyone stop and rest? Wouldn't the dog have run on? Just doesn't make sense.

That also what I initially thought, but when you read all of the details listed in the thread, it makes sense. A very long hike, high temperatures, the dog might have been exhausted as well, people might not recognize how severe their heat exhaustion is until it's too late. By the time the mom tried to go for help, it was too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand why it's being proposed but the heat stroke theory doesn't ring true to me. All dropped dead within feet of each other? If one was in distress, wouldn't everyone stop and rest? Wouldn't the dog have run on? Just doesn't make sense.

That also what I initially thought, but when you read all of the details listed in the thread, it makes sense. A very long hike, high temperatures, the dog might have been exhausted as well, people might not recognize how severe their heat exhaustion is until it's too late. By the time the mom tried to go for help, it was too late.

Except for the most important detail, that the police are absolutely mystified and are looking at toxic algae and even more unusual possibilities. Heat stroke is not an unusual possibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the branches, biker, rock slides, cougar poster. Get with the program. No visible signs of trauma.

Get with the program yourself. I've known from before page 1 there were no signs of trauma. The environment contributes to stress, exertion, and exhaustion. Tripping over rocks, twisting ankles, stepping over fallen trees, fear of mountain lions, all can take a toll and not be visible.

[Anonymous]

They were experienced hikers BEFORE having a baby. They were in over their head, didn't realize what it's like WITH a baby. In that heat, you're just fending for yourself at that point. Dad sat and took the baby off from too much heat. Mom tried to press on and dropped like a fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They were experienced hikers BEFORE having a baby. They were in over their head, didn't realize what it's like WITH a baby. In that heat, you're just fending for yourself at that point. Dad sat and took the baby off from too much heat. Mom tried to press on and dropped like a fly.

+1

They reserved water for the baby. They had added weight (probably about 1/10th the father's total weight) due to the baby. For an 8-mile hike in 100F that's a death sentence.

I'm shocked that they didn't stop and tend to the baby well before it became too late though - she must have been crying from being overheated.

[Anonymous]

I find heat stroke hard to believe. If these folks were experienced hikers at ALL they knew to pack plenty of water. We hike in Maine FFS and over pack water.

[Anonymous]

I think the fact that there were no obvious signs of poisoning or trauma to any of the bodies points more toward heat exhaustion than murder-suicide.

If it is heat exhaustion, I agree with others that theorize that the dog was struggling at some point (I think it would have survived--or would not have been found near its humans bodies. The instinct survival of a healthy dog would have kicked-in.) The dad tried to carry the dog (maybe gave the baby to mom which contributed to her exhaustion).

My guess is that the dad sat down and refused to move due to heat exhaustion. Maybe mom went to get help or maybe she was wandering in delirium. Sad.

The sheriff's office seems to think they hiked nearly the entire 8.5 mile loop which doesn't support the murder suicide theory much. This is not how most folks would choose to kill themselves and their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find heat stroke hard to believe. If these folks were experienced hikers at ALL they knew to pack plenty of water. We hike in Maine FFS and over pack water.

They were over-confident in their own backyard. Quite frankly I think they'd knock it out, not worry about too much water, and come back home to nap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the fact that there were no obvious signs of poisoning or trauma to any of the bodies points more toward heat exhaustion than murder-suicide.

If it is heat exhaustion, I agree with others that theorize that the dog was struggling at some point (I think it would have survived--or would not have been found near its humans bodies. The instinct survival of a healthy dog would have kicked-in.) The dad tried to carry the dog (maybe gave the baby to mom which contributed to her exhaustion).

My guess is that the dad sat down and refused to move due to heat exhaustion. Maybe mom went to get help or maybe she was wandering in delirium. Sad.

The sheriff's office seems to think they hiked nearly the entire 8.5 mile loop which doesn't support the murder suicide theory much. This is not how most folks would choose to kill themselves and their families.

The dog can't struggle or have survival instinct if its attached by a lead. It literally couldn't escape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the fact that there were no obvious signs of poisoning or trauma to any of the bodies points more toward heat exhaustion than murder-suicide.

If it is heat exhaustion, I agree with others that theorize that the dog was struggling at some point (I think it would have survived--or would not have been found near its humans bodies. The instinct survival of a healthy dog would have kicked-in.) The dad tried to carry the dog (maybe gave the baby to mom which contributed to her exhaustion).

My guess is that the dad sat down and refused to move due to heat exhaustion. Maybe mom went to get help or maybe she was wandering in delirium. Sad.

The sheriff's office seems to think they hiked nearly the entire 8.5 mile loop which doesn't support the murder suicide theory much. This is not how most folks would choose to kill themselves and their families.

The dog can't struggle or have survival instinct if its attached by a lead. It literally couldn't escape.

Dogs can get away, when they're tied. It's hard to believe that a healthy 8 year old dog would just lay down and die.

Which is why the police aren't believing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have realized how close they were to hearstroke/death while they were trying to save the dog as well. Maybe if they did they would have acted differently but maybe not. Dogs have become like humans to many of us.

+1

I would never leave my dog behind to die alone.

Darwinism for dog owners.

I’d rather die with my dog than live with sh1theads like you.

You'd risk your baby's life to save a dog?

I wouldn’t leave the dog out tied up alone. Parents could split up.

Seems like they did. It didn’t work.

She was only 30’ away. Doesn’t sound like they split up.

If I was in a life-threatening situation with the love of my life, and our baby, I'd want us to stick together. I'd want us to all work together, help each other, and survive together. I imagine that Ellen Chung felt the same way. (I might be beyond wanting to save the dog at this point, but have given it a try up til a point).

I imagine that at some point when things became desperate and they realized the extreme direness/helplessness of their situation (perhaps she could see her husband was unable to move forward), she made a last attempt to survive (either for herself alone, or also with hope of getting help to her loved ones), and felt she'd have no choice but to go on her own. I imagine that she was very, very reluctant to leave them behind and thus it was only near the very end of her abilities that she reluctantly went forward.

It's extremely poignant to imagine. The love and devotion that they had for each other, which went through the end. Rest in Peace, Chung-Gerrish family.

LOL. The stories you all manufacture in your heads is straight-up NUTS!

WTAF?

Agree. Their deaths were most definitely ugly and painful, tragic and pointless, filled with confusion and delusions. Nothing romantic about it. Disgusting to turn the story of reckless decisions into something about epic love. Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The heat stroke theory makes the most sense to me. One member of the part gets in severe trouble first, there's some panic about what to do that's probably impacted by the other adult or both adults being on the way to trouble themselves and not being able to think straight or having no good options, and all of them are doomed.

Heat stroke can be really fast. If you want to see it in action, look up Caleb Reynolds on Survivor, which I think you can see on YouTube. He goes from moving around doing intense physical activity for a challenge one second, to being collapsed on the ground the next, unable to move and unresponsive and gasping for air. One of his teammates gives him water but he isn't able to drink and he was beyond that anyway. Prior to that there were zero signs that he was in any kind of trouble. The production team only managed to save his life because they were able to radio for a Medevac chopper and had a skilled medical team and supplies like chilled IV saline and oxygen to keep his vitals from tanking while they waited.

Like a PP, I also thought of the Death Valley Germans. Hopefully here we will be able to get more answers as by the time any sign of the Germans was found, 13 years had passed and most of the clues and remains were gone.

It also made me think of David and Ornella Steiner, a French couple who died at White Sands National Monument a few years ago. They went hiking on a 101-degree day on a trail that was half the length that this family apparently went on, with their 9-year-old son. Ornella started feeling ill and turned around to go back to the car, and collapsed and died on the way. David and the son continued on but then David collapsed as well and from the son's account later had been acting increasingly bizarre and confused himself. The 9-year-old didn't know what to do so stayed with the dad on the side of the trail. Unlike the couple in this story, they were hiking in an area with regular NPS patrols so while both adults died, the rangers managed to find the 9-year-old in time to save him. It turned out later that the parents had been more attentive and careful to their child's water consumption than their own which was probably why he survived.

People underestimate nature all the time and get themselves in big trouble. I think that's probably what happened here as well.

Just read about White Sands. I’m glad there are signs up warning people. But geez all these heat deaths makes me think we should close places like this when the temperature is very high. With big signs warning people of the danger. I hike casually and had no idea about how quickly and severely heat exhaustion can come on.

I agree with you, but some places (like the National Park Service) believe in letting people choose their risks in such settings.

Of course, it is often the park not the visitor, who realizes how dangerous conditions are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find heat stroke hard to believe. If these folks were experienced hikers at ALL they knew to pack plenty of water. We hike in Maine FFS and over pack water.

Heat stroke is not the same as dehydration. You can still suffer heat exhaustion and heat stroke, even with plenty of water, if you’re outside in 100+ degree weather for hours. Lowering the core body temperature is the only “cure.”