Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just heard the pilot of the helicopter was a woman. Trump, Hegseth and MAGA are getting ready to ramp up their “I Told You So” tour.

You heard from Fox or maybe one of the MAGA nuts?

It is clearly a male voice from the radio.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r90Xw3tQC0I

Couldn't the person talking not have been the one flying the helicopter? There were three soldiers on the helicopter. This makes sense with Trump's DEI statements. Hegseth said in his statement that they know the identities of the soldiers on board. And, of course, this would play perfectly into Hegseth's claims that the military has gone to shit under Biden because it's no longer the best and brightest being promoted, etc., it's all based on DEI. He also claims that, under Biden, there's not enough time for military training in the field, etc. because they all had to constantly do DEI, sexual assault, etc. training. I REALLY hope the PP is wrong that the pilot of the helicopter was a woman, but I'm afraid that may be the case.

So what if it was a woman? Has a man never crashed a plane? The blame lies on DoD to be allowing ‘training flights’ at night right next to a very busy airport. I’m in McLean and the number of helicopters that have been going around the last three weeks has been very strange. Guess what? It has been awfully quiet today.

The reason it matters is because it gives Trump and Hegseth ammunition in their claims that the military is prioritizing DEI/wokeness over merit. I'm not saying they are right, but they certainly will make the argument that this is evidnece they are right if it was a woman flying that military helicopter. Why is this hard to understand?

I doubt it was a woman because Trump/Vance spent the press conference trying to blame ATC. If the pilot was a woman, and they knew, they would have instead spent the press conference blaming DEI in DoD.

They went with the scapegoat they thought most likely to involve non-white guys (or people with disabilities) because their first thought upon hearing about this horrible tragedy was "how can we blame this on DEI?"

Freaking ghouls. I don't believe in hell but might start just so I can envision them going there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump's comms team did not advise him well on this. Blaming it on DEI and implying the air traffic controllers may have messed up because they have psychiatric disabilities is not wise. Also, the FAA's rules around disabilities are the same as every federal agencies. The rules are nothing new and were in place during Trump's first term. He is saying ATCs are mentally incompetent. He doesn't even know who made the mistake at this point.

This is from the Federal Aviation Administration before trump:

Individuals with targeted or “severe” disabilities are the most under-represented segment of the Federal workforce. The People with Disabilities Program (PWD) ensures that people with disabilities have equal Federal employment opportunities. The FAA actively recruits, hires, promotes, retains, develops and advances people with disabilities.

The FAA meets the goals of the PWD Program through a variety of practices:

Targeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring. They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism.

No reason to actually respond to Trump’s “alternative facts ts,” but that memo does not say that blind people will be hired as ATC’s . It says at the FAA, not necessarily as ATC’s. And all Federal job descriptions state what you have to be able to do (such as lift boxes that weigh x pounds). Those are the minium requirements. Obviously one can imagine many imPortant jobs that someone who has dwarfism or uses a wheelchair could perform for the FAA. This is no smoking gun.

His focus on DEI and reckless firings and hiring freezes are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was half listening but does he not know what the Kennedy Center is? He mentioned it having a bunch of cameras all aimed at space.

Kennedy Center theater in DC

Kennedy Space Center in Florida
https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/

It's Four Seasons Landscaping again.

This man, among his many, many faults, is an idiot and a confabulator. He's a walking, talking version of the crappy old ChatGPT prototype.

[Anonymous]

[img]

Anonymous wrote:If the helo was en route from Langley back to Ft. Belvoir, why did they follow the river at all? It's not remotely the most direct path, which would be over land.

Noise abatement. Too many people complained about aviation noise, and flight paths changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just heard the pilot of the helicopter was a woman. Trump, Hegseth and MAGA are getting ready to ramp up their “I Told You So” tour.

You heard from Fox or maybe one of the MAGA nuts?

It is clearly a male voice from the radio.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r90Xw3tQC0I

Couldn't the person talking not have been the one flying the helicopter? There were three soldiers on the helicopter. This makes sense with Trump's DEI statements. Hegseth said in his statement that they know the identities of the soldiers on board. And, of course, this would play perfectly into Hegseth's claims that the military has gone to shit under Biden because it's no longer the best and brightest being promoted, etc., it's all based on DEI. He also claims that, under Biden, there's not enough time for military training in the field, etc. because they all had to constantly do DEI, sexual assault, etc. training. I REALLY hope the PP is wrong that the pilot of the helicopter was a woman, but I'm afraid that may be the case.

But, when Hegseth screws up (like now) nobody is blaming that on DEI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump's comms team did not advise him well on this. Blaming it on DEI and implying the air traffic controllers may have messed up because they have psychiatric disabilities is not wise. Also, the FAA's rules around disabilities are the same as every federal agencies. The rules are nothing new and were in place during Trump's first term. He is saying ATCs are mentally incompetent. He doesn't even know who made the mistake at this point.

This is from the Federal Aviation Administration before trump:

Individuals with targeted or “severe” disabilities are the most under-represented segment of the Federal workforce. The People with Disabilities Program (PWD) ensures that people with disabilities have equal Federal employment opportunities. The FAA actively recruits, hires, promotes, retains, develops and advances people with disabilities.

The FAA meets the goals of the PWD Program through a variety of practices:

Targeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring. They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism.

Is that new within the last 10 years?

Or just some legalese for decades at all of Club Fed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump's comms team did not advise him well on this. Blaming it on DEI and implying the air traffic controllers may have messed up because they have psychiatric disabilities is not wise. Also, the FAA's rules around disabilities are the same as every federal agencies. The rules are nothing new and were in place during Trump's first term. He is saying ATCs are mentally incompetent. He doesn't even know who made the mistake at this point.

This is from the Federal Aviation Administration before trump:

Individuals with targeted or “severe” disabilities are the most under-represented segment of the Federal workforce. The People with Disabilities Program (PWD) ensures that people with disabilities have equal Federal employment opportunities. The FAA actively recruits, hires, promotes, retains, develops and advances people with disabilities.

The FAA meets the goals of the PWD Program through a variety of practices:

Targeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring. They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism.

Yes. And all employees must be qualified to do the essential functions of their job. The FAA hires accountants, administrative assistants, attorneys, comms people, ATCs and many other occupations. All of them must be able to perform their job. Trump has implied that the people in that control tower were disabled for the job they were doing. There is no evidence whatsoever that is the case. ATCs must be fit for duty - these regulations do not change that. I do not think the people in the tower last night (or in towers anywhere) appreciate him implying they are not. And, these rules were in place from 2017-2020.

THIS but who is going to correct him? Not state TV like Fox and OAN. He is disgusting to turn a tragedy into yet another opportunity to blame literally EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING under the sun on DEI.

I am hoping the ATCs' union will correct him (NATCA). And one way to do so would be walk out. That would have the double effect of showing the nation that the federal workforce does in fact do important work. The whole country - including Republican leaders in Congress - know what Trump just did at that press conference is abhorrent. We are leaderless. It's less than 24 hours after a horrific tragedy and his instinct is to divide further. I hate to break it to his supporters, but DEI is not the boogeyman they think it is.

They should demand an apology but at a minimum release a statement correcting Trump and in support of ATCs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just heard the pilot of the helicopter was a woman. Trump, Hegseth and MAGA are getting ready to ramp up their “I Told You So” tour.

You heard from Fox or maybe one of the MAGA nuts?

It is clearly a male voice from the radio.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r90Xw3tQC0I

Couldn't the person talking not have been the one flying the helicopter? There were three soldiers on the helicopter. This makes sense with Trump's DEI statements. Hegseth said in his statement that they know the identities of the soldiers on board. And, of course, this would play perfectly into Hegseth's claims that the military has gone to shit under Biden because it's no longer the best and brightest being promoted, etc., it's all based on DEI. He also claims that, under Biden, there's not enough time for military training in the field, etc. because they all had to constantly do DEI, sexual assault, etc. training. I REALLY hope the PP is wrong that the pilot of the helicopter was a woman, but I'm afraid that may be the case.

Do you not Nazi how you are playing directly into Nazi rhetoric?

Trump filled the government with grossly unqualified insane people, and you "REALLY hope" non-WhiteMen don't exist, because any one that does exist will be blamed for anything that goes wrong?

THIS IS HOW GENOCIDES LAUNCH

Um, no I'm not. You are not very good at reading comprehension. I hope it wasn't a woman flying the helicopter because Trump and Hegseth will point to that as "evidence" that women and other DEI candidates in the military shouldn't be there. I don't agree with that, but that's how they will twist that fact to further their agenda. Do you understand now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the helo was en route from Langley back to Ft. Belvoir, why did they follow the river at all? It's not remotely the most direct path, which would be over land.

The military helicopter was on an annual recertification training flight. They flew straight into the right rear of AA passenger airplane! They were at an unauthorized altitude at impact.
They should have seen the passenger airplane!

There is nothing the AA pilots could have done who were seconds away from touchdown! The AC controllers were talking to both aircraft. Helicopter said they saw the airplane, but they didn’t flying directly into it (with night vision goggles on per Hegseth).

That's not great. Night vision goggles typically have a narrow FOV. Even the better ones are only 120 degrees.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:➡️ January 20: FAA director fired
➡️ January 21: Air Traffic Controller hiring frozen
➡️ January 22: Aviation Safety Advisory Committee disbanded
➡️ January 28: Buyout/retirement demand sent to existing employees
➡️ January 29: First American mid-air collision in 16 years

Making America Great Again!

So they sabotaged it? I doubt that very much. I have a higher opinion of FAA employees than you do.

Not sabotage. Stress.

Remember that one of Trump’s people said their goal was to “traumatize federal employees.”

Was this actually an ATC error? I thought it was mainly the helicopter error.

No one knows yet.

To me, it does look like some element of ATC error. It clearly was not communicating to both the helicopter and the airplane that they were headed straight for each other and need to take action.

That’s not true, the tower clearly advised the helicopter about the traffic, which plane it was and where it was going. Then they confirm visual separation. Then they actually do see it and tell the helicopter to go behind the plane. I don’t think there’s any way from what we could hear that the tower would anticipate the helicopter flying into the plane, but obviously we have limited info. But the tower does contact the helicopter before the crash.

It’s also amazing how he stayed so calm and redirected the other planes, especially that American pilot who was kind of a d$& about it.

But clearly the helicopter didn’t understand which plane the ATC had identified and that is part of the problem. We don’t know all of what was said, but it’s the ATCs job to make sure all the planes headed into the runway are aware of each other, on correct course and don’t collide, and that didn’t happen.

Did you listen to the ATC recording? That did happen. The controller confirmed with the BH pilot that he saw the airplane. The pilot confirmed he did.

NP From what I read there was more than just one airplane around as it's a busy landing approach path, and the pilot might have said that yes, he saw the plane, meaning another, and never saw this one.

If you actually listen to the ATC recording while watching the radar recording, you will understand this doesn't make sense. There is ONE plane in the helo's line of sight, it's right in front of them.

You hear the ATC asking for visual confirmation from the helo, getting it, and then directing the helo to go behind the plane (something the helo is designed to do).

And then impact.

There is ZERO evidence this is on ATC. Based on that, I would be waiting to get the black box from the helo, which may show a malfunction that prevented them from turning to go behind the plane. Or it could have been a medical event, which we may never know. Or just human error from the pilot, though that's harder to believe because military pilots receive training that you would expect to prevent that kind of error.

But there is no indication ATC screwed up and the implication that it was their fault makes no sense based on the current info.

If true and no misunderstanding then the helo pilots acted very irrationally. Luigi style irrational.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something happened inside the helo. Could be a regular old mistake, a medical emergency, or a mechanical problem.

This isn't the ATC's fault.

I assume military aircraft have black boxes as well. We need the info from that to understand what happened.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would like to hear the DoD say they are suspending all non-essential helicopter flights in the DC area pending an investigation. They won't, but they should.

Given this incident, there is no reason for DoD to be using airspace around DC for ordinary transport (that could easily and efficiently be done by car) or for training.

They won't do this though because it would raise the question of whether it was irresponsible to be using helicopters so extensively for these non-essential purposes in the first place.

Maybe 400 meters radius around DCA during hours of operation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the helo was en route from Langley back to Ft. Belvoir, why did they follow the river at all? It's not remotely the most direct path, which would be over land.

The military helicopter was on an annual recertification training flight. They flew straight into the right rear of AA passenger airplane! They were at an unauthorized altitude at impact.
They should have seen the passenger airplane!

There is nothing the AA pilots could have done who were seconds away from touchdown! The AC controllers were talking to both aircraft. Helicopter said they saw the airplane, but they didn’t flying directly into it (with night vision goggles on per Hegseth).

Well clearly the helicopter and the ATC weren’t on the same page regarding the plane in sight. That much is obvious. Why? That is unclear. While they had night vision goggles, it isn’t known if they were in use. I heard an expert on TV say night vision goggles decreases your field of vision by 40%

[Anonymous]

Standards for pilots and ATC were reduced to lessen barriers for historically under represented minorities and women. And on the ATC side there have been an explosion of errors and near collisions. This is what the maga crowd is referring to. It’s not fair or at the core true - ATC issues are much deeper. But this is a perception in the aviation community, much of which leans right anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump admin crumbling on week 2.

Is he pissed media will focus on this and not on EOs? Of course.

OK, let's focus on his EO to cripple the FAA so Musk can launch rockets without safety checks.