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Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...
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Anonymous
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Yeah...there are SOOO many midwives who love working with an OB at a hospital for a patient who gets an epidural.
I'm sorry...but why would they be needed? I find it funny that you guys don't see how biased midwives are on this subject... |
Anonymous
It seems to me that you are the one that is biased. My midwife would have attended my birth if I had an epidural. She always works with an OB but she attends the birth either way. She has absolutely no reason to be biased. |
Anonymous
I just called my Godmother who is a very conventional CNM and who only does hospital births. She said the vast majority of her patients have epidurals and she agreed that unmedicated babies are generally livelier and nurse better from the get go. She did not see this as a reason to turn down the epidural though. |
Anonymous
Well that's an easy one. How hard is it to obtain the certification with respect to how much responsibility the person will have? CNMs have to work for at least 6 years post high school to get their degree. OBs have to work 12 years post high school to get theirs. They both have to attend hundreds/thousands of births while being supervised before they can practice alone, and every baby that has a bad outcome has her case reviewed thoroughly. CPMs? They are required to have attended 40 births, been the primary midwife at 20, and have had 10 be in the past 3 years. There also seems to be no system for reviewing a CPM's bad outcomes and no requirement that she change her protocols to avoid future bad outcomes. All for a commensurate level of responsibility. Also, how easy is it for the certification to be lost? CNMs and OBs can be fired after committing malpractice. CPMs? NARM has listed 5 who have had their CPM credential revoked, but we all know how easy it is for a CPM to continue practicing even without a current credential. |
Anonymous
Um, you do realize that OBs aren't the ones administering epidurals, right? An anesthesiologist does that. So why would a midwife have to "work with an OB" for her patient to get an epidural? |
Anonymous
There seems to be some conflation of the different types of midwives here. CNMs work mainly at hospitals, presumably with many women who choose epidurals. CPMs in general don't have the level of education required to work for a hospital, so they might be less inclined to condone epidurals. |
Anonymous
How about if you lose the hostility and go back to whatever it was you were doing before condemning a woman you don't know for decisions she made during a situation you know very little about? This isn't about you, so back off. |
Anonymous
Oh, so it has to be about me before I can have an opinion? How very feminist of you. |
Anonymous
I think there is a valid reason for the HB movement to distrust regulation when it produces the outcome that a woman can not give birth at home unless she is unassisted. I believe that in some states disallow CPMs but then the licensing requirements for CNM disallow them from attending homebirths. In this situation, there is no way for a woman to hire someone with state recognized credentials to attend her birth outside a hospital. This will drive some women to opt for a hospital birth and others to use underground mid wives or worse unassisted births. I actually believe that CPMs should be licensed and not pushed underground but that there should be rigorous testing involved, follow up educational requirements, outcome reporting that is available publically (which should be required for ob/gyns as well), complaints filed should be public record, and due process for complaints leading to loss of license or sanctions should exist. I don't believe that a nursing degree should be required if the CPM can pass a rigorous test and show proof of assisting and observing an appropriate number of births. |
Anonymous
But why should a woman have the "right" to an assistant at homebirth if she's having twins? Breech? Has gestational diabetes? I would argue that hospitals need provide more options for women, so that women can choose the option that's slightly more risky for the baby (vaginal breech, etc), but reduces her chances of CS. However, that's a social/legal question, and I'm not sure how easy those changes will be in the US. Countries that have reasonably safe homebirths all seem to have highly trained (as in at least university-level) midwives who are all operating under the same system of risking patients out. Patients can't just say that they want a homebirth, even though it's a twin VBAC- if the risk assessment shows that homebirth is out, it's out. That attitude is so different from some of the super-pro-homebirth crowd here that, again, I'm not sure that it would ever work in the US. I agree with the comments about CPM training. I think they should have to see hundreds of hospital births, as well as many homebirths, before they can practice alone. |
Anonymous
How feminist is it to make choices for what other women can do with their bodies? |
Anonymous
She can do what she wants with her body. She just has no "right" to be attended at home in a risky delivery. How is that difficult to understand? And how is it feminist to tell people who say things you don't like to shut up and go away? If your position is correct, defend it. I'm sure we can all handle a little dissent. |
Anonymous
In other words, we will offer her no choices and she will have to do what we tell her is best for her. Yes, I'm afraid it is difficult to understand how a "feminist" could take that position. |
Anonymous
You can take the recommended treatment or not. Just like for infections, diabetes, strokes, gallstones... And just like in those other uncomfortable and possibly dangerous situations, I don't have the "right" to tell the doctor or nurse that no, I don't believe in insulin, but if they would kindly give me a blood transfusion I'll be happy. I don't get to tell the doctors and nurses what treatment to provide me- I get to refuse treatment if I don't like it. I don't understand why saying that no professional should have attended this birth is anti-feminist. If you are so against setting foot in the hospital, and so high-risk that a birth center won't take you, you can deliver at home against medical advice. But as soon as a "professional" attends, you now have the veneer of professional acceptance. Why are CPMs so against standards? This really isn't a "choice" issue- it's a women's health issue, and women deserve better than a CPM who doesn't know enough to say no. |
Anonymous
I'm the poster you've been fighting with but not this poster above, who I agree with. I've posted on several other occasions on this thread. I've explained my position several times. So have other people who have similar positions. You don't want to hear that there are people who don't think that Karen Carr should be thrown in jail, which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to say that I think your opinion is anti-woman. On the certification issue, there have been several people who have chimed in about what it takes to get certified. Yes, not many CPMs have lost their certifications. Without knowing how many complaints have been brought, it's hard to know whether 5/X is a high number or a low number. Your other complaint seems to be the lack of scientific education that CPMs receive, which I think is valid. I support there being other avenues to becoming a midwife than nursing school, which includes many types of medical care not relevant to practicing midwifery, followed by a master's degree in midwifery. I support there being high standards, actual clinical education and an apprenticeship/mentoring program for new midwives. What I do not support is your blanket dismissal of the work of thousands of women, most of whom no one posting on this forum will ever meet or work with. |