Palisades Fire - Los Angeles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LA is a nightmare, just suburbia stretched out.
Many areas have only a few good highways to get into and out of. Despite this they are popular areas to live in. Evacuation orders cause huge traffic jams.
There is no metro.
This is in someway an opportunity for city planners to rethink and create a better more functional city.
Don’t ask me about the school system, their education is a nightmare too.
One would think that the richest state in the richest country could do better.
Currently they are tackling homelessness by pretending it doesn’t exist even though that has not helped at all

California is the wealthiest state, kind of. They have 500 BILLION of debt. That is the highest debt to income ratio of any state - 106%!
NY is the next most in debt state but no where close to California.

CA swings wildly based on IPOs. For years CA has had billions in surplus. Interest rates going up and the banking issue in SV put a damper on the IPOs. Between reserves , being able to adjust the budget and new start ups recovering it’s fine. CA often ends higher than projected.

CA public education is excellent in some areas and crappy in others, like everywhere else. The public school in some areas of LA , not LA unified and the Bay Area , not San Jose Unified are better than your top public schools in the DMV. The UC system is the best in the nation. Berkeley, UCLA, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Irvine and Davis are light years better than other state flagships. Heck, the top Cal State schools are better than most state flagships.

The schools that are good are good because of the types of students that go there, not what the administration is doing or what they're investing in students. You'll get large class sizes and not-great per pupil spending but a good student population especially since some parts of CA don't have as much of a private school culture.

The curriculum was far, far better than MCPS. The buildings and grounds were so much better too. The class sizes were not larger than MCPS. There was more parent and foundation funding for things which you couldn’t do in MCPS. The UC system attract top faculty that get top research grants. The state is large enough and the state options compelling enough that you don’t siphon off the best students to private universities out of state.

A lot of the schools are trailers and look like shanty towns. The facilities are terrible with little security in LA.

I’m not the PP but I don’t think you have any personal experience with LA schools.

That having been said in years of reading DCUM I have found that the gaping emotional need of some DCUM posters to believe California schools are universally bad is weirdly large. I don’t get it but whatever.

I attended CA public schools; did you?

Stop trying to gaslight people about California’s public school system.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/california-math-framework-algebra/675509/

That PP probably attended California schools in the 60s and is trying to tell everyone how it is today. What a joke. I think PP has zero personal experience with LA schools lately. Otherwise tell us the specific name of the fabulous school?

Let me guess, you haven’t been in California in thirty years but spend your days obsessing on DCUM about California schools.

Such a weird hobby but you are very recognizable in your dysfunction.

Why do people make such ridiculous statements? I just left there a few years ago. I have 3 kids in elementary school still. Sorry I hit a nerve but the schools aren't that great.

Ah. Yes, that tracks. The people who leave California for DC are often the most desperate to trash California schools. It’s a known pattern.

It always cracks me up how some sad DCUM parents are desperate to get their kids into UCLA but yet extremely loud about how they believe California has no good public schools at all. The cognitive disconnect is something, that’s for sure.

As if people moving to California have no cognitive bias toward rationalization that California schools are good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You notice you don’t hear of wildfires in Arizona, Nevada, or Texas despite being dryer than California

Uhhh I live in Arizona and yea you do. There are wildfires here all the time, they just have no decimated a really concentrated area like LA. There are huge ones in northern Arizona over the last 5 years but the population of that region is about 300,000k and spread out over an area larger than Massachusetts. There were terrible fires in Reno NV last year too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is actually pretty sweet, a little kindness amid the horror.

Sweet mother of Jesus can we please keep these two out of this?!

Haven’t the people of LA suffered enough?

I hear Megan made a special batch of jam for all the homeless.

Wouldn’t be surprised if she went around placing a little mint sprig on each person affected, to “elevate” them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yall need to read this. These homes have no business being in Malibu and they do not need our sympathy.

https://longreads.com/2018/12/04/the-case-for-letting-malibu-burn/


When most of us build or buy a home, we carefully appraise the neighborhood. In Malibu the neighborhood is fire. Fire that revisits the coastal mountains several times a decade. In the past sixty years, ten of these frequent events have turned into all-consuming firestorms. The latest conflagration, the Woolsey Fire, has incinerated 1,500 homes and killed at least three people. It started in dry grasslands just south of Simi Valley, the site of the notorious trial of Rodney King’s assailants, then crossed a freeway to ignite dense coastal sage vegetation on the northern flank of the Santa Monica Mountains. The range’s deep canyons, perfectly aligned with the seasonal Santa Ana Winds, once again as bellows, accelerating the fire’s rush to the coast where it burned beach homes. The large number of residences lost attests not only to the ferocity of the conflagration but also to the amount of new construction since the 1993 firestorm.

You’ll forgive me if I am not immediately ready to embrace Mike Davis as truth teller in view of his extremely messy personal life, history of suspiciously self-beneficial political action, and self-description as a “critical geography Marxist.”

Doesn’t anybody on DCUM exercise even the slightest critical thought any more? Or do you just believe any random link that gets thrown up here?

Consider sources, PP. Consider sources. I’m willing to bet you’d never even heard of Mike Davis before you shared that link.

DCUM seems to be overrun with science deniers and people unwilling to use critical thinking. They just peck away relentlessly with misinformation and insults. People that care about facts eventually give up because it’s exhausting.

I'm sure you are one of the people who called several of us "science deniers" during COVID, when we periodically used our actual science knowledge to criticize lock-downs, washing Amazon orders with disinfectant, closing down schools, double masking, firing people who didn't get vaccines, etc. Now, we are supposed to listen to people spouting off about how "climate change" caused this year's fires and hurricanes. Well, folks with actual scientific knowledge acknowledge that our current understanding of the Earth's climatic systems is extremely limited. We've only had reasonable scientific measurements for about 40 years for many of the variables cited by lay people. Our "proxy" measurements give limited understanding before that, and our knowledge about how systems such as wind, cloud cover, and ocean currents interact is even worse. So, is the climate "changing"? Well, yeah, it has changed constantly throughout the Earth's history. Do we know how it's changing? No. Do we know that we've caused it? No. Do we know how to "fix" it? No. Can we use human knowledge to adapt? Yes.

I posted way up above asking for actual citations when someone asserted that climate change "causes" warming in California, higher wind speeds in California and drought in California. And the person dismissed me as an idiot (and I'm sure, a denier). But people who understand science should also be humble, and understand when we lack the knowledge to make causal statements. Anyone with knowledge of the history of science should be humble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m watching a lot of the news and struck by how the celebrity/mansion /multimillion dollar homes aspect of the story is pushed. There are also lots of people who have lived there for decades and have otherwise typical middle class lives who have lost homes or are at risk.

My stepmother home is gone. 1800 sq ft 2 bdrm that she bought in 1975 for 78k. She was dropped by her insurer last year and was in the process of getting fair plan insurance and they were taking forever to underwrite. She and my dad moved to a retirement community (fortunately)but she kept her home and had been thinking about renting, selling etc.

My mom’s home (and my childhood home) is now in mandatory evacuation zone. They bought a small ranch in 1972 for 68k and she stayed. It is very modest home for the neighborhood but there are many others like it. Fortunately I got my mom to leave recently and move close to me and rent it out because she could no longer live alone (dementia)…(my sibling refused to sell because of taxes, which was stupid. I wanted her to have easy access to capital so she could get the best care… I have been worried about fire since a 2019 wildfire which was a very close call and she was at that time developing dementia and I knew she would not know what to do the next time.)

The house is her only asset and the rent pays for memory care. I’m thankful she’s not there and aware of what’s happening.

My stepsister is on the edge of the evacuation zone, in a modest home with a couple animals. She is a researcher and can only afford to live there because her dad (a schoolteacher) left her the home when he died. She’s nervous like everyone else and is currently housing a friend who probably lost their home in topanga.

I’m grateful that everyone in my family is ok but I just don’t know what all these people will do. The super rich will have options but for many people those options are simply out of reach.

They will still be able to sell the land for way more than they paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m watching a lot of the news and struck by how the celebrity/mansion /multimillion dollar homes aspect of the story is pushed. There are also lots of people who have lived there for decades and have otherwise typical middle class lives who have lost homes or are at risk.

My stepmother home is gone. 1800 sq ft 2 bdrm that she bought in 1975 for 78k. She was dropped by her insurer last year and was in the process of getting fair plan insurance and they were taking forever to underwrite. She and my dad moved to a retirement community (fortunately)but she kept her home and had been thinking about renting, selling etc.

My mom’s home (and my childhood home) is now in mandatory evacuation zone. They bought a small ranch in 1972 for 68k and she stayed. It is very modest home for the neighborhood but there are many others like it. Fortunately I got my mom to leave recently and move close to me and rent it out because she could no longer live alone (dementia)…(my sibling refused to sell because of taxes, which was stupid. I wanted her to have easy access to capital so she could get the best care… I have been worried about fire since a 2019 wildfire which was a very close call and she was at that time developing dementia and I knew she would not know what to do the next time.)

The house is her only asset and the rent pays for memory care. I’m thankful she’s not there and aware of what’s happening.

My stepsister is on the edge of the evacuation zone, in a modest home with a couple animals. She is a researcher and can only afford to live there because her dad (a schoolteacher) left her the home when he died. She’s nervous like everyone else and is currently housing a friend who probably lost their home in topanga.

I’m grateful that everyone in my family is ok but I just don’t know what all these people will do. The super rich will have options but for many people those options are simply out of reach.

Someone who purchased a home in what is now a VERY expensive neighborhood is doing extremely well. $78k?! Let me guess, the home is at least $2 million?

Sorry but middle class people don’t live in 2 million dollar properties.

In positive news the land value is way more than the structure

This isn’t right when the person is older and has owned the home for a long time. My parents purchased a home (my childhood home) in a different part of the country for $65,000 in 1978. My parents were middle class and self-employed, and now in their early 80s live on an extremely fixed income (it’s incredible to me how little they spend day to day, but normal to them as they are a different generation that doesn’t stop at starbucks and Wendy’s every time they feel a craving) and have medicare of course.

They still live in that house which is worth $1.5m today. They benefit from reduced property taxes because of their ages and length of time they’ve owned the house, and don’t upkeep it very well - these two factors permit them to financially stay in the house. They aren’t poor of course because they have the house, but they would be financially devastated if they lost the house in a fire and had to move out long term. They are solidly middle class but for an asset that they don’t plan to touch until needed for elder care ($1.5m won’t go far to support 2 people in assisted living who potentially could live almost 20 more years).

Prop 13 capped the amount the taxes could pay each year. These people are literally paying peanuts off the backs of younger hard working families who also want a place on the property ladder. It is completely unjust. And they get to pass that on one time to a child? Eff that.

In 1978 when Prop 13 was passed, I believe a Democrat was the governor of California?

Yes, but Prop 13 was extremely popular with Republicans and still is. It won by a landslide and no one wants to get rid of it, especially Republicans in CA. It's a Republican sacred cow. Look up Howard Jarvis, Howard Jarvis Ta Foundation.

[Anonymous]

Tax Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m watching a lot of the news and struck by how the celebrity/mansion /multimillion dollar homes aspect of the story is pushed. There are also lots of people who have lived there for decades and have otherwise typical middle class lives who have lost homes or are at risk.

My stepmother home is gone. 1800 sq ft 2 bdrm that she bought in 1975 for 78k. She was dropped by her insurer last year and was in the process of getting fair plan insurance and they were taking forever to underwrite. She and my dad moved to a retirement community (fortunately)but she kept her home and had been thinking about renting, selling etc.

My mom’s home (and my childhood home) is now in mandatory evacuation zone. They bought a small ranch in 1972 for 68k and she stayed. It is very modest home for the neighborhood but there are many others like it. Fortunately I got my mom to leave recently and move close to me and rent it out because she could no longer live alone (dementia)…(my sibling refused to sell because of taxes, which was stupid. I wanted her to have easy access to capital so she could get the best care… I have been worried about fire since a 2019 wildfire which was a very close call and she was at that time developing dementia and I knew she would not know what to do the next time.)

The house is her only asset and the rent pays for memory care. I’m thankful she’s not there and aware of what’s happening.

My stepsister is on the edge of the evacuation zone, in a modest home with a couple animals. She is a researcher and can only afford to live there because her dad (a schoolteacher) left her the home when he died. She’s nervous like everyone else and is currently housing a friend who probably lost their home in topanga.

I’m grateful that everyone in my family is ok but I just don’t know what all these people will do. The super rich will have options but for many people those options are simply out of reach.

Someone who purchased a home in what is now a VERY expensive neighborhood is doing extremely well. $78k?! Let me guess, the home is at least $2 million?

Sorry but middle class people don’t live in 2 million dollar properties.

In positive news the land value is way more than the structure

This isn’t right when the person is older and has owned the home for a long time. My parents purchased a home (my childhood home) in a different part of the country for $65,000 in 1978. My parents were middle class and self-employed, and now in their early 80s live on an extremely fixed income (it’s incredible to me how little they spend day to day, but normal to them as they are a different generation that doesn’t stop at starbucks and Wendy’s every time they feel a craving) and have medicare of course.

They still live in that house which is worth $1.5m today. They benefit from reduced property taxes because of their ages and length of time they’ve owned the house, and don’t upkeep it very well - these two factors permit them to financially stay in the house. They aren’t poor of course because they have the house, but they would be financially devastated if they lost the house in a fire and had to move out long term. They are solidly middle class but for an asset that they don’t plan to touch until needed for elder care ($1.5m won’t go far to support 2 people in assisted living who potentially could live almost 20 more years).

Prop 13 capped the amount the taxes could pay each year. These people are literally paying peanuts off the backs of younger hard working families who also want a place on the property ladder. It is completely unjust. And they get to pass that on one time to a child? Eff that.

In 1978 when Prop 13 was passed, I believe a Democrat was the governor of California?

Yes, but Prop 13 was extremely popular with Republicans and still is. It won by a landslide and no one wants to get rid of it, especially Republicans in CA. It's a Republican sacred cow. Look up Howard Jarvis, Howard Jarvis Ta Foundation.

lol. Yes the very blue state of California can't end Prop 13 because of the massive Republican support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LA is a nightmare, just suburbia stretched out.
Many areas have only a few good highways to get into and out of. Despite this they are popular areas to live in. Evacuation orders cause huge traffic jams.
There is no metro.
This is in someway an opportunity for city planners to rethink and create a better more functional city.
Don’t ask me about the school system, their education is a nightmare too.
One would think that the richest state in the richest country could do better.
Currently they are tackling homelessness by pretending it doesn’t exist even though that has not helped at all

California is the wealthiest state, kind of. They have 500 BILLION of debt. That is the highest debt to income ratio of any state - 106%!
NY is the next most in debt state but no where close to California.

CA swings wildly based on IPOs. For years CA has had billions in surplus. Interest rates going up and the banking issue in SV put a damper on the IPOs. Between reserves , being able to adjust the budget and new start ups recovering it’s fine. CA often ends higher than projected.

CA public education is excellent in some areas and crappy in others, like everywhere else. The public school in some areas of LA , not LA unified and the Bay Area , not San Jose Unified are better than your top public schools in the DMV. The UC system is the best in the nation. Berkeley, UCLA, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Irvine and Davis are light years better than other state flagships. Heck, the top Cal State schools are better than most state flagships.

The schools that are good are good because of the types of students that go there, not what the administration is doing or what they're investing in students. You'll get large class sizes and not-great per pupil spending but a good student population especially since some parts of CA don't have as much of a private school culture.

The curriculum was far, far better than MCPS. The buildings and grounds were so much better too. The class sizes were not larger than MCPS. There was more parent and foundation funding for things which you couldn’t do in MCPS. The UC system attract top faculty that get top research grants. The state is large enough and the state options compelling enough that you don’t siphon off the best students to private universities out of state.

A lot of the schools are trailers and look like shanty towns. The facilities are terrible with little security in LA.

I’m not the PP but I don’t think you have any personal experience with LA schools.

That having been said in years of reading DCUM I have found that the gaping emotional need of some DCUM posters to believe California schools are universally bad is weirdly large. I don’t get it but whatever.

I attended CA public schools; did you?

Stop trying to gaslight people about California’s public school system.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/california-math-framework-algebra/675509/

That PP probably attended California schools in the 60s and is trying to tell everyone how it is today. What a joke. I think PP has zero personal experience with LA schools lately. Otherwise tell us the specific name of the fabulous school?

Let me guess, you haven’t been in California in thirty years but spend your days obsessing on DCUM about California schools.

Such a weird hobby but you are very recognizable in your dysfunction.

Why do people make such ridiculous statements? I just left there a few years ago. I have 3 kids in elementary school still. Sorry I hit a nerve but the schools aren't that great.

Ah. Yes, that tracks. The people who leave California for DC are often the most desperate to trash California schools. It’s a known pattern.

It always cracks me up how some sad DCUM parents are desperate to get their kids into UCLA but yet extremely loud about how they believe California has no good public schools at all. The cognitive disconnect is something, that’s for sure.

As if people moving to California have no cognitive bias toward rationalization that California schools are good.

I thought nobody was ever moving to California. That’s what you all tell us endlessly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You notice you don’t hear of wildfires in Arizona, Nevada, or Texas despite being dryer than California

Uhhh I live in Arizona and yea you do. There are wildfires here all the time, they just have no decimated a really concentrated area like LA. There are huge ones in northern Arizona over the last 5 years but the population of that region is about 300,000k and spread out over an area larger than Massachusetts. There were terrible fires in Reno NV last year too.

+1. Drove through a fire-decimated forest in AZ a few years ago. It was a huge area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m watching a lot of the news and struck by how the celebrity/mansion /multimillion dollar homes aspect of the story is pushed. There are also lots of people who have lived there for decades and have otherwise typical middle class lives who have lost homes or are at risk.

My stepmother home is gone. 1800 sq ft 2 bdrm that she bought in 1975 for 78k. She was dropped by her insurer last year and was in the process of getting fair plan insurance and they were taking forever to underwrite. She and my dad moved to a retirement community (fortunately)but she kept her home and had been thinking about renting, selling etc.

My mom’s home (and my childhood home) is now in mandatory evacuation zone. They bought a small ranch in 1972 for 68k and she stayed. It is very modest home for the neighborhood but there are many others like it. Fortunately I got my mom to leave recently and move close to me and rent it out because she could no longer live alone (dementia)…(my sibling refused to sell because of taxes, which was stupid. I wanted her to have easy access to capital so she could get the best care… I have been worried about fire since a 2019 wildfire which was a very close call and she was at that time developing dementia and I knew she would not know what to do the next time.)

The house is her only asset and the rent pays for memory care. I’m thankful she’s not there and aware of what’s happening.

My stepsister is on the edge of the evacuation zone, in a modest home with a couple animals. She is a researcher and can only afford to live there because her dad (a schoolteacher) left her the home when he died. She’s nervous like everyone else and is currently housing a friend who probably lost their home in topanga.

I’m grateful that everyone in my family is ok but I just don’t know what all these people will do. The super rich will have options but for many people those options are simply out of reach.

Someone who purchased a home in what is now a VERY expensive neighborhood is doing extremely well. $78k?! Let me guess, the home is at least $2 million?

Sorry but middle class people don’t live in 2 million dollar properties.

In positive news the land value is way more than the structure

This isn’t right when the person is older and has owned the home for a long time. My parents purchased a home (my childhood home) in a different part of the country for $65,000 in 1978. My parents were middle class and self-employed, and now in their early 80s live on an extremely fixed income (it’s incredible to me how little they spend day to day, but normal to them as they are a different generation that doesn’t stop at starbucks and Wendy’s every time they feel a craving) and have medicare of course.

They still live in that house which is worth $1.5m today. They benefit from reduced property taxes because of their ages and length of time they’ve owned the house, and don’t upkeep it very well - these two factors permit them to financially stay in the house. They aren’t poor of course because they have the house, but they would be financially devastated if they lost the house in a fire and had to move out long term. They are solidly middle class but for an asset that they don’t plan to touch until needed for elder care ($1.5m won’t go far to support 2 people in assisted living who potentially could live almost 20 more years).

Prop 13 capped the amount the taxes could pay each year. These people are literally paying peanuts off the backs of younger hard working families who also want a place on the property ladder. It is completely unjust. And they get to pass that on one time to a child? Eff that.

In 1978 when Prop 13 was passed, I believe a Democrat was the governor of California?

Yes, but Prop 13 was extremely popular with Republicans and still is. It won by a landslide and no one wants to get rid of it, especially Republicans in CA. It's a Republican sacred cow. Look up Howard Jarvis, Howard Jarvis Ta Foundation.

lol. Yes the very blue state of California can't end Prop 13 because of the massive Republican support.

As I said, everyone likes it. And there are a lot of Republicans in CA. And CA had a series of Republican governors, the last one being Schwarzenegger. And no one will touch it then or now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grandma shouldn’t be living in a big old house by herself just because it is the easiest and cheapest option for her. Society benefits when houses turnover and young families move into family sized houses. Grandma should move into a condo. I’m on the older side so that could be me very soon. It sucks to be forced to move but in the end a condo is fine.

I don’t believe society ever benefits by forcing elderly people out of their homes.

Agree. Why not go full Ättestupa then? Who TF are these people saying that those who worked hard their whole lives don’t deserve to live in their homes? If you can’t afford LA go to Sacramento. There’s no right for you g families to live wherever they want. Serisi what is wrong with ppl?

I've never lived anywhere in my life that property taxes weren't raised with some frequency (every few years).

CA property taxes are raised by 2 percent every year unless assessment for your property goes down. That has not happened since 2009. So yes they do increase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m watching a lot of the news and struck by how the celebrity/mansion /multimillion dollar homes aspect of the story is pushed. There are also lots of people who have lived there for decades and have otherwise typical middle class lives who have lost homes or are at risk.

My stepmother home is gone. 1800 sq ft 2 bdrm that she bought in 1975 for 78k. She was dropped by her insurer last year and was in the process of getting fair plan insurance and they were taking forever to underwrite. She and my dad moved to a retirement community (fortunately)but she kept her home and had been thinking about renting, selling etc.

My mom’s home (and my childhood home) is now in mandatory evacuation zone. They bought a small ranch in 1972 for 68k and she stayed. It is very modest home for the neighborhood but there are many others like it. Fortunately I got my mom to leave recently and move close to me and rent it out because she could no longer live alone (dementia)…(my sibling refused to sell because of taxes, which was stupid. I wanted her to have easy access to capital so she could get the best care… I have been worried about fire since a 2019 wildfire which was a very close call and she was at that time developing dementia and I knew she would not know what to do the next time.)

The house is her only asset and the rent pays for memory care. I’m thankful she’s not there and aware of what’s happening.

My stepsister is on the edge of the evacuation zone, in a modest home with a couple animals. She is a researcher and can only afford to live there because her dad (a schoolteacher) left her the home when he died. She’s nervous like everyone else and is currently housing a friend who probably lost their home in topanga.

I’m grateful that everyone in my family is ok but I just don’t know what all these people will do. The super rich will have options but for many people those options are simply out of reach.

Someone who purchased a home in what is now a VERY expensive neighborhood is doing extremely well. $78k?! Let me guess, the home is at least $2 million?

Sorry but middle class people don’t live in 2 million dollar properties.

In positive news the land value is way more than the structure

This isn’t right when the person is older and has owned the home for a long time. My parents purchased a home (my childhood home) in a different part of the country for $65,000 in 1978. My parents were middle class and self-employed, and now in their early 80s live on an extremely fixed income (it’s incredible to me how little they spend day to day, but normal to them as they are a different generation that doesn’t stop at starbucks and Wendy’s every time they feel a craving) and have medicare of course.

They still live in that house which is worth $1.5m today. They benefit from reduced property taxes because of their ages and length of time they’ve owned the house, and don’t upkeep it very well - these two factors permit them to financially stay in the house. They aren’t poor of course because they have the house, but they would be financially devastated if they lost the house in a fire and had to move out long term. They are solidly middle class but for an asset that they don’t plan to touch until needed for elder care ($1.5m won’t go far to support 2 people in assisted living who potentially could live almost 20 more years).

Prop 13 capped the amount the taxes could pay each year. These people are literally paying peanuts off the backs of younger hard working families who also want a place on the property ladder. It is completely unjust. And they get to pass that on one time to a child? Eff that.

In 1978 when Prop 13 was passed, I believe a Democrat was the governor of California?

Yes, but Prop 13 was extremely popular with Republicans and still is. It won by a landslide and no one wants to get rid of it, especially Republicans in CA. It's a Republican sacred cow. Look up Howard Jarvis, Howard Jarvis Ta Foundation.

lol. Yes the very blue state of California can't end Prop 13 because of the massive Republican support.

As I said, everyone likes it. And there are a lot of Republicans in CA. And CA had a series of Republican governors, the last one being Schwarzenegger. And no one will touch it then or now.

You mean none of the Dems will touch it now. Because they know their voters don't want it. It's a class issue, not political party. The haves vs the have nots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m watching a lot of the news and struck by how the celebrity/mansion /multimillion dollar homes aspect of the story is pushed. There are also lots of people who have lived there for decades and have otherwise typical middle class lives who have lost homes or are at risk.

My stepmother home is gone. 1800 sq ft 2 bdrm that she bought in 1975 for 78k. She was dropped by her insurer last year and was in the process of getting fair plan insurance and they were taking forever to underwrite. She and my dad moved to a retirement community (fortunately)but she kept her home and had been thinking about renting, selling etc.

My mom’s home (and my childhood home) is now in mandatory evacuation zone. They bought a small ranch in 1972 for 68k and she stayed. It is very modest home for the neighborhood but there are many others like it. Fortunately I got my mom to leave recently and move close to me and rent it out because she could no longer live alone (dementia)…(my sibling refused to sell because of taxes, which was stupid. I wanted her to have easy access to capital so she could get the best care… I have been worried about fire since a 2019 wildfire which was a very close call and she was at that time developing dementia and I knew she would not know what to do the next time.)

The house is her only asset and the rent pays for memory care. I’m thankful she’s not there and aware of what’s happening.

My stepsister is on the edge of the evacuation zone, in a modest home with a couple animals. She is a researcher and can only afford to live there because her dad (a schoolteacher) left her the home when he died. She’s nervous like everyone else and is currently housing a friend who probably lost their home in topanga.

I’m grateful that everyone in my family is ok but I just don’t know what all these people will do. The super rich will have options but for many people those options are simply out of reach.

Someone who purchased a home in what is now a VERY expensive neighborhood is doing extremely well. $78k?! Let me guess, the home is at least $2 million?

Sorry but middle class people don’t live in 2 million dollar properties.

In positive news the land value is way more than the structure

This isn’t right when the person is older and has owned the home for a long time. My parents purchased a home (my childhood home) in a different part of the country for $65,000 in 1978. My parents were middle class and self-employed, and now in their early 80s live on an extremely fixed income (it’s incredible to me how little they spend day to day, but normal to them as they are a different generation that doesn’t stop at starbucks and Wendy’s every time they feel a craving) and have medicare of course.

They still live in that house which is worth $1.5m today. They benefit from reduced property taxes because of their ages and length of time they’ve owned the house, and don’t upkeep it very well - these two factors permit them to financially stay in the house. They aren’t poor of course because they have the house, but they would be financially devastated if they lost the house in a fire and had to move out long term. They are solidly middle class but for an asset that they don’t plan to touch until needed for elder care ($1.5m won’t go far to support 2 people in assisted living who potentially could live almost 20 more years).

Prop 13 capped the amount the taxes could pay each year. These people are literally paying peanuts off the backs of younger hard working families who also want a place on the property ladder. It is completely unjust. And they get to pass that on one time to a child? Eff that.

I agree that the cap should not be passed on, but strongly disagree with you about the older, long time homeowners. They were once hard working young families who worked and scrimped and bought homes - this is exactly what as a society and economy should be encouraged. Now that they are older and on fixed incomes, you think they should all have to sell and move to the boonies or into senior housing? There are many societal benefits to helping elders age in place, and I would not call this a “hand out” any more than for example a first time homeowner transfer tax exemption (if you live in Md, I bet you didn’t complain about that tax break) or the like.

The one-time exemption passed on is how multi-generational families of tradespeople survive in California. You want familial carpenters, electricians, etc to be less than four hours of driving away from the areas they service? You need to let them apprentice their kids and pass a home to those kids.

I have come to absolutely despise the greedy progressives in this California. They are systematically destroying the very fabric of the communities.

Prop 13 is directly responsible for the housing shortage and insane prices.

Along with insane environmental and building regulations, and immigration policy. Nearly 30% of Californians are foreign-born and half of California children have at least one immigrant parent. If you are worried about housing shortages, think about that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m watching a lot of the news and struck by how the celebrity/mansion /multimillion dollar homes aspect of the story is pushed. There are also lots of people who have lived there for decades and have otherwise typical middle class lives who have lost homes or are at risk.

My stepmother home is gone. 1800 sq ft 2 bdrm that she bought in 1975 for 78k. She was dropped by her insurer last year and was in the process of getting fair plan insurance and they were taking forever to underwrite. She and my dad moved to a retirement community (fortunately)but she kept her home and had been thinking about renting, selling etc.

My mom’s home (and my childhood home) is now in mandatory evacuation zone. They bought a small ranch in 1972 for 68k and she stayed. It is very modest home for the neighborhood but there are many others like it. Fortunately I got my mom to leave recently and move close to me and rent it out because she could no longer live alone (dementia)…(my sibling refused to sell because of taxes, which was stupid. I wanted her to have easy access to capital so she could get the best care… I have been worried about fire since a 2019 wildfire which was a very close call and she was at that time developing dementia and I knew she would not know what to do the next time.)

The house is her only asset and the rent pays for memory care. I’m thankful she’s not there and aware of what’s happening.

My stepsister is on the edge of the evacuation zone, in a modest home with a couple animals. She is a researcher and can only afford to live there because her dad (a schoolteacher) left her the home when he died. She’s nervous like everyone else and is currently housing a friend who probably lost their home in topanga.

I’m grateful that everyone in my family is ok but I just don’t know what all these people will do. The super rich will have options but for many people those options are simply out of reach.

Someone who purchased a home in what is now a VERY expensive neighborhood is doing extremely well. $78k?! Let me guess, the home is at least $2 million?

Sorry but middle class people don’t live in 2 million dollar properties.

In positive news the land value is way more than the structure

This isn’t right when the person is older and has owned the home for a long time. My parents purchased a home (my childhood home) in a different part of the country for $65,000 in 1978. My parents were middle class and self-employed, and now in their early 80s live on an extremely fixed income (it’s incredible to me how little they spend day to day, but normal to them as they are a different generation that doesn’t stop at starbucks and Wendy’s every time they feel a craving) and have medicare of course.

They still live in that house which is worth $1.5m today. They benefit from reduced property taxes because of their ages and length of time they’ve owned the house, and don’t upkeep it very well - these two factors permit them to financially stay in the house. They aren’t poor of course because they have the house, but they would be financially devastated if they lost the house in a fire and had to move out long term. They are solidly middle class but for an asset that they don’t plan to touch until needed for elder care ($1.5m won’t go far to support 2 people in assisted living who potentially could live almost 20 more years).

Prop 13 capped the amount the taxes could pay each year. These people are literally paying peanuts off the backs of younger hard working families who also want a place on the property ladder. It is completely unjust. And they get to pass that on one time to a child? Eff that.

In 1978 when Prop 13 was passed, I believe a Democrat was the governor of California?

It was a ballot measure.

Who promoted that ballot?

Libertarian Republicans who got Reagan into the White House

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Jarvis

This.