Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss Part II

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be some bashing of CCL on these pages (not warranted imo) but what does it say to the state and level of VPL as another club leaves for CCL? Last year it was NVSC and now VA Rush. They seem to be growing their membership while VPL loses a solid club. In looking through their standings they appear to rank in 5/6th overall.

Again I understand that CCL is inferior to DA/ECNL but it's still a great next level of competition. Will VPL eventually fold? Maybe some of the Richmond teams in VPL should join CCL in order to create a North/South Division to limit the travel during the regular season that so many complain about and then have sort of tournament to determine champions etc.

Irony alert. CCL was originally founded—in its VIRGINIA CCL days—by the Virginia Beach and RIchmond based clubs to bring NOVA teams to them for some more appropriate levels of competition. I don’t know what happened exactly, maybe the expansion of US CLub Soccer via VPL offering better terms to clubs, but I know that both VA Beach and RIchmond teams have departed CCL leaving the situation much as it was over a decade ago, but with even more atomization of leagues.

As for the person who wanted there to be one US Youth Soccer sanctioned league with promotion/relegation across the region, that’s what we had 15 to 20 years ago, when NCSL division 1 was THE place to be for boys’ teams and WAGS DIvision 1 was the same for girls. Something about that stopped working—I think first the boys DA and then the rise of US Club Soccer (ECNL for girls, VPL, EDP) and the southern teams wanting an in on the beltway-area competition resulting in CCL and the latest entry of Girls DA.

having had children play in EDP — it’s not a real league in my opinion. It’s a series of two or three tournament-style weekends in the spring separated by several weeks of no games. Not the kind of experience that most kids are signing up for when the think they’re going to play soccer.

I don’t envy the parents of younger players. This is all deeply confusing now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be some bashing of CCL on these pages (not warranted imo) but what does it say to the state and level of VPL as another club leaves for CCL? Last year it was NVSC and now VA Rush. They seem to be growing their membership while VPL loses a solid club. In looking through their standings they appear to rank in 5/6th overall.

Again I understand that CCL is inferior to DA/ECNL but it's still a great next level of competition. Will VPL eventually fold? Maybe some of the Richmond teams in VPL should join CCL in order to create a North/South Division to limit the travel during the regular season that so many complain about and then have sort of tournament to determine champions etc.

VA Rush is a good club and I think you have a good point about the Richmond teams, if they move to CCL there could be a North/South division. The thing people hate about CCL is the long travel, two divisions would go a long way to helping that situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be some bashing of CCL on these pages (not warranted imo) but what does it say to the state and level of VPL as another club leaves for CCL? Last year it was NVSC and now VA Rush. They seem to be growing their membership while VPL loses a solid club. In looking through their standings they appear to rank in 5/6th overall.

Again I understand that CCL is inferior to DA/ECNL but it's still a great next level of competition. Will VPL eventually fold? Maybe some of the Richmond teams in VPL should join CCL in order to create a North/South Division to limit the travel during the regular season that so many complain about and then have sort of tournament to determine champions etc.

Irony alert. CCL was originally founded—in its VIRGINIA CCL days—by the Virginia Beach and RIchmond based clubs to bring NOVA teams to them for some more appropriate levels of competition. I don’t know what happened exactly, maybe the expansion of US CLub Soccer via VPL offering better terms to clubs, but I know that both VA Beach and RIchmond teams have departed CCL leaving the situation much as it was over a decade ago, but with even more atomization of leagues.

As for the person who wanted there to be one US Youth Soccer sanctioned league with promotion/relegation across the region, that’s what we had 15 to 20 years ago, when NCSL division 1 was THE place to be for boys’ teams and WAGS DIvision 1 was the same for girls. Something about that stopped working—I think first the boys DA and then the rise of US Club Soccer (ECNL for girls, VPL, EDP) and the southern teams wanting an in on the beltway-area competition resulting in CCL and the latest entry of Girls DA.

having had children play in EDP — it’s not a real league in my opinion. It’s a series of two or three tournament-style weekends in the spring separated by several weeks of no games. Not the kind of experience that most kids are signing up for when the think they’re going to play soccer.

I don’t envy the parents of younger players. This is all deeply confusing now.

EDP has become a solid league. Games every weekend against quality MD, PA and DE teams. Unfortunately, very few VA teams participate. They also offer several divisions with relegation/promotion. ERL is also another good league to get extra games/competition in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of this is talk about CCL vs NCSL is preposterous based on my experience over the past three years as a parent of a U9 and u10 boy. With a few exceptions like Arlington Red, clubs vary immensely year over year (at least on the boys side ), including longer-standing members of the CCL, newer CCL members, VPL members and NCSL members whose top teams are usually in the first or second division). Individual teams change YOY, especially as stars leave for the DAs. I don’t see much value in these recurring discussions other than reminding me of how misguided some parents may be who think their children are not only joining a team but a club and league, as if the league makes your club, team or child a good player. And I have not really seen any persuasive points about intra league competitiveness. If you are a top team in either NCSL, CCL, or VPL, you won’t have much unless and until your child’s team plays the right bracket in the right tournament. And if you child is not on a top team, then being in any of these leagues is going to be fine for competitiveness. The most competitive league are in Maryland at the U8-11 range. We don’t have anything like those in NOVA

I don't think that it's about belonging to a specific league but to understand that their kid's team is in a league where they are going to find the best competition. I don't care which league they are in but that they can be in one that offers the most consistent competition. Not all the same teams/clubs are on the same level and agree that Arlington Red is consistently high quality. In my opinion there should be one VYSA league outside of DA broken up by districts with promotion/relegation so that all teams get comparable competition each week.

Well, number 1 —you are comparing “quality and good” based on wins of 8 and 9 year olds. Ha!

That is not a developmental model for individual players. The games do not matter at those ages.

Individuals are not being developed. Teams are all they care about and they are only selecting physicality. There is no patience for developing players.

U9-U12 it just doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

The guys limited experience is with a U9 and U10. Enough said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of this is talk about CCL vs NCSL is preposterous based on my experience over the past three years as a parent of a U9 and u10 boy. With a few exceptions like Arlington Red, clubs vary immensely year over year (at least on the boys side ), including longer-standing members of the CCL, newer CCL members, VPL members and NCSL members whose top teams are usually in the first or second division). Individual teams change YOY, especially as stars leave for the DAs. I don’t see much value in these recurring discussions other than reminding me of how misguided some parents may be who think their children are not only joining a team but a club and league, as if the league makes your club, team or child a good player. And I have not really seen any persuasive points about intra league competitiveness. If you are a top team in either NCSL, CCL, or VPL, you won’t have much unless and until your child’s team plays the right bracket in the right tournament. And if you child is not on a top team, then being in any of these leagues is going to be fine for competitiveness. The most competitive league are in Maryland at the U8-11 range. We don’t have anything like those in NOVA

I don't think that it's about belonging to a specific league but to understand that their kid's team is in a league where they are going to find the best competition. I don't care which league they are in but that they can be in one that offers the most consistent competition. Not all the same teams/clubs are on the same level and agree that Arlington Red is consistently high quality. In my opinion there should be one VYSA league outside of DA broken up by districts with promotion/relegation so that all teams get comparable competition each week.

Well, number 1 —you are comparing “quality and good” based on wins of 8 and 9 year olds. Ha!

That is not a developmental model for individual players. The games do not matter at those ages.

Individuals are not being developed. Teams are all they care about and they are only selecting physicality. There is no patience for developing players.

U9-U12 it just doesn’t matter.

True. But I think you reached the same conclusion he did. Although you could look at these facts, they are not meaningful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The guys limited experience is with a U9 and U10. Enough said.

If you read closely, or at all, the point is that none of these scores or records is likely to give you meaningful information about player development or coaching, even the apparently big-stakes U15-18 matches. LOL. You really think any of this ever begins to become important or meaningful for making decisions about which team to leave or join?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The guys limited experience is with a U9 and U10. Enough said.

If you read closely, or at all, the point is that none of these scores or records is likely to give you meaningful information about player development or coaching, even the apparently big-stakes U15-18 matches. LOL. You really think any of this ever begins to become important or meaningful for making decisions about which team to leave or join?

There is a huge swath of parents that think their kid has to be on 'X club, on X team which plays in X league' at the earliest of ages. It means they are destined for the World Cup and their child is superior to all others in the DMV. The way they talk about their kids' team and introduce themselves...:Hi, I'm Jim and my son, Ryan, plays on the U9 Madison County A team'. Oh--your child is at X Club or on Madison County C team---oh too bad, last time I will be talking to you. Sadly, poor Ryan will slowly make his descent down the chain over the years and dad won't know what to do when he can't run around bragging that Ryan's team won the Eliteeliteness Cup and no other teams came close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The guys limited experience is with a U9 and U10. Enough said.

If you read closely, or at all, the point is that none of these scores or records is likely to give you meaningful information about player development or coaching, even the apparently big-stakes U15-18 matches. LOL. You really think any of this ever begins to become important or meaningful for making decisions about which team to leave or join?

There is a huge swath of parents that think their kid has to be on 'X club, on X team which plays in X league' at the earliest of ages. It means they are destined for the World Cup and their child is superior to all others in the DMV. The way they talk about their kids' team and introduce themselves...:Hi, I'm Jim and my son, Ryan, plays on the U9 Madison County A team'. Oh--your child is at X Club or on Madison County C team---oh too bad, last time I will be talking to you. Sadly, poor Ryan will slowly make his descent down the chain over the years and dad won't know what to do when he can't run around bragging that Ryan's team won the Eliteeliteness Cup and no other teams came close.

Agreed, and all this becomes even sillier when membership in a different league becomes the basis for distinction and snobbery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The guys limited experience is with a U9 and U10. Enough said.

If you read closely, or at all, the point is that none of these scores or records is likely to give you meaningful information about player development or coaching, even the apparently big-stakes U15-18 matches. LOL. You really think any of this ever begins to become important or meaningful for making decisions about which team to leave or join?

There is a huge swath of parents that think their kid has to be on 'X club, on X team which plays in X league' at the earliest of ages. It means they are destined for the World Cup and their child is superior to all others in the DMV. The way they talk about their kids' team and introduce themselves...:Hi, I'm Jim and my son, Ryan, plays on the U9 Madison County A team'. Oh--your child is at X Club or on Madison County C team---oh too bad, last time I will be talking to you. Sadly, poor Ryan will slowly make his descent down the chain over the years and dad won't know what to do when he can't run around bragging that Ryan's team won the Eliteeliteness Cup and no other teams came close.

Agreed, and all this becomes even sillier when membership in a different league becomes the basis for distinction and snobbery.

Totally!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The guys limited experience is with a U9 and U10. Enough said.

If you read closely, or at all, the point is that none of these scores or records is likely to give you meaningful information about player development or coaching, even the apparently big-stakes U15-18 matches. LOL. You really think any of this ever begins to become important or meaningful for making decisions about which team to leave or join?

There is a huge swath of parents that think their kid has to be on 'X club, on X team which plays in X league' at the earliest of ages. It means they are destined for the World Cup and their child is superior to all others in the DMV. The way they talk about their kids' team and introduce themselves...:Hi, I'm Jim and my son, Ryan, plays on the U9 Madison County A team'. Oh--your child is at X Club or on Madison County C team---oh too bad, last time I will be talking to you. Sadly, poor Ryan will slowly make his descent down the chain over the years and dad won't know what to do when he can't run around bragging that Ryan's team won the Eliteeliteness Cup and no other teams came close.

Agreed, and all this becomes even sillier when membership in a different league becomes the basis for distinction and snobbery.

Do you really meet a lot of people like this? Maybe things are just a lot better on the Maryland side, but I've only ever met 1 or 2 people who sound like this, and I've had various kids in travel soccer for 15 years now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The guys limited experience is with a U9 and U10. Enough said.

If you read closely, or at all, the point is that none of these scores or records is likely to give you meaningful information about player development or coaching, even the apparently big-stakes U15-18 matches. LOL. You really think any of this ever begins to become important or meaningful for making decisions about which team to leave or join?

There is a huge swath of parents that think their kid has to be on 'X club, on X team which plays in X league' at the earliest of ages. It means they are destined for the World Cup and their child is superior to all others in the DMV. The way they talk about their kids' team and introduce themselves...:Hi, I'm Jim and my son, Ryan, plays on the U9 Madison County A team'. Oh--your child is at X Club or on Madison County C team---oh too bad, last time I will be talking to you. Sadly, poor Ryan will slowly make his descent down the chain over the years and dad won't know what to do when he can't run around bragging that Ryan's team won the Eliteeliteness Cup and no other teams came close.

Agreed, and all this becomes even sillier when membership in a different league becomes the basis for distinction and snobbery.

Do you really meet a lot of people like this? Maybe things are just a lot better on the Maryland side, but I've only ever met 1 or 2 people who sound like this, and I've had various kids in travel soccer for 15 years now.

Yes. A ton. VA

[Anonymous]

I’m in VA, not been in the soccer scene for as long as PP (girls though) but I haven’t seen that... most parents have been really nice or plain ok. yeah, there is some tension between some teams, inter and intra club, but not bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in VA, not been in the soccer scene for as long as PP (girls though) but I haven’t seen that... most parents have been really nice or plain ok. yeah, there is some tension between some teams, inter and intra club, but not bad.

I don’t think it is tension. It is more like elititude. It usually comes up in the context of discussing league results. It is hard to explain why people put league stickers on their cars. And it is not just CCL vs VPL. There are some quite nasty attitudes about ODSL from NCSL parents. It is all nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in VA, not been in the soccer scene for as long as PP (girls though) but I haven’t seen that... most parents have been really nice or plain ok. yeah, there is some tension between some teams, inter and intra club, but not bad.

I don’t think it is tension. It is more like elititude. It usually comes up in the context of discussing league results. It is hard to explain why people put league stickers on their cars. And it is not just CCL vs VPL. There are some quite nasty attitudes about ODSL from NCSL parents. It is all nuts.

Well, to be fair, ODSL does suck.





Not understanding sarcasm and typing up pissed off reply in 3...2...1...