Everything you know about obesity is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As with many complex phenomena, it's obviously a combination of systemic failures and individual choices. We can't really control things like subsidies to the junk food industrial complex, but we do have some control over our individual choices. That is the point. When you go to a Super Walmart and spend your money on soda, that's a choice.

Yes, exactly. It's many things, but the only one we can control is what we eat.

What we eat, by carefully weighing and measuring it all, to make sure we are inside of the narrow band of allowable calories that will maintain a healthy weight, despite the signals from your body that that's not enough, because that's what your hunger hormones are telling you. The level of control required of weight loss maintainers is significant.

You cannot claim that all obese people have hormones telling them they are hungry all the time. It is well known that many overweight people eat for emotional reasons - not because they are hungry. Stress, anxiety, relationships, kids, work, depression, etc. Go to any weight loss forum and you will hear people that eat because it makes them psychologically feel better, food is their best friend. They eat well past the point of being satisfied from a physiological perspective. They are feeding emotional needs.

That is why we also need more available mental health treatments in this country.

The extraordinary results from the semaglutide clinical trials and associated reported experiential data from those trials seems to indicate you are abjectly wrong about the bolded.

Semaglutide and drugs like it make obese people not hungry. This has been shown robustly, in multiple studies. How on earth people like you can continue to ignore all scientific reality to make obesity some personal failing or mental health issue when we have this solid data is beyond me, but you or one of your buddies on this thread have already stated that you have no interest in actual science so I guess ignorance is your preferred state.

+1 this drug has handily disproven any myth that obese people are obese, at median, because they are eating for fun or pain and not due to hunger cues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Right. For me, losing and maintaining a lower weight requires tolerating hunger pangs. I lose slow and have a fairly forgiving metabolism so I can lose on 1800 something calories per day, depending on how high my weight is. I’m on 1900 right now. I’ve done this at least half a dozen times in a decade so I know what works. But eventually my weight gets lower and I’m on 1800 per day. Hunger creeps in. And when I’m freakin burned out and stress I say “f this” and stop tracking and eat what I like. And the slow climb back up begins.

My hope is that these drugs prove safe. I’d love to drop 20 pounds for good and just be able to eat more reasonably with less mental effort.

1800-1900 calories a day is a dream.

I need to be down to 1100 to lose. 1200 and I maintain. 1300 and I gain. It is depressing. I would love the people who maintain at 1800 calories a day to spend a year eating 1200 a day.

I couldn’t do it. I wouldn’t last one week. I have friends who are like this too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

This is not true at all. Different foods have vastly different effects on the body. Read Gary Taubes and Jason Fung.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

Fine, so then admit that regulating food won't help you if you can become obese eating salad and apples.

but the thing is, two cups of salad is something like 15 calories (minus dressing)...so you'd have to eat literally 100 cups of salad just to get the caloric equivalent of say, three pieces of pizza. I don't think it is physically possible for your body to do that in a day, is it? (Not a facetious question.) If I ate 4 apples (400 calories) I think I'd be stuffed. If I ate a third of a bag of potato chips (also around 400 calories)...I would probably not be very satiated. So technically, yea, a calorie is a calorie from any food but it's physically very difficult (if not impossible for some foods) to eat the physical mass of said food you'd need to become obese.

Agree, but yet posters here are claiming they do just that. Eat only healthy foods and become obese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

This is not true at all. Different foods have vastly different effects on the body. Read Gary Taubes and Jason Fung.

They make a lot of claims but they don’t have the studies to support them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

Fine, so then admit that regulating food won't help you if you can become obese eating salad and apples.

but the thing is, two cups of salad is something like 15 calories (minus dressing)...so you'd have to eat literally 100 cups of salad just to get the caloric equivalent of say, three pieces of pizza. I don't think it is physically possible for your body to do that in a day, is it? (Not a facetious question.) If I ate 4 apples (400 calories) I think I'd be stuffed. If I ate a third of a bag of potato chips (also around 400 calories)...I would probably not be very satiated. So technically, yea, a calorie is a calorie from any food but it's physically very difficult (if not impossible for some foods) to eat the physical mass of said food you'd need to become obese.

Agree, but yet posters here are claiming they do just that. Eat only healthy foods and become obese.

No one is claiming to only eat lettuce. Healthy whole foods includes non lettuce items.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As with many complex phenomena, it's obviously a combination of systemic failures and individual choices. We can't really control things like subsidies to the junk food industrial complex, but we do have some control over our individual choices. That is the point. When you go to a Super Walmart and spend your money on soda, that's a choice.

Yes, exactly. It's many things, but the only one we can control is what we eat.

What we eat, by carefully weighing and measuring it all, to make sure we are inside of the narrow band of allowable calories that will maintain a healthy weight, despite the signals from your body that that's not enough, because that's what your hunger hormones are telling you. The level of control required of weight loss maintainers is significant.

You cannot claim that all obese people have hormones telling them they are hungry all the time. It is well known that many overweight people eat for emotional reasons - not because they are hungry. Stress, anxiety, relationships, kids, work, depression, etc. Go to any weight loss forum and you will hear people that eat because it makes them psychologically feel better, food is their best friend. They eat well past the point of being satisfied from a physiological perspective. They are feeding emotional needs.

That is why we also need more available mental health treatments in this country.

The extraordinary results from the semaglutide clinical trials and associated reported experiential data from those trials seems to indicate you are abjectly wrong about the bolded.

Semaglutide and drugs like it make obese people not hungry. This has been shown robustly, in multiple studies. How on earth people like you can continue to ignore all scientific reality to make obesity some personal failing or mental health issue when we have this solid data is beyond me, but you or one of your buddies on this thread have already stated that you have no interest in actual science so I guess ignorance is your preferred state.

+1 this drug has handily disproven any myth that obese people are obese, at median, because they are eating for fun or pain and not due to hunger cues.

Smoking also suppresses your appetite. What is your point?

It still doesn't mean that people shouldn't focus on healthy eating and living to maintain a healthy weight and avoid obesity. You want to just throw away that message and send everyone straight to drugs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

Fine, so then admit that regulating food won't help you if you can become obese eating salad and apples.

but the thing is, two cups of salad is something like 15 calories (minus dressing)...so you'd have to eat literally 100 cups of salad just to get the caloric equivalent of say, three pieces of pizza. I don't think it is physically possible for your body to do that in a day, is it? (Not a facetious question.) If I ate 4 apples (400 calories) I think I'd be stuffed. If I ate a third of a bag of potato chips (also around 400 calories)...I would probably not be very satiated. So technically, yea, a calorie is a calorie from any food but it's physically very difficult (if not impossible for some foods) to eat the physical mass of said food you'd need to become obese.

Agree, but yet posters here are claiming they do just that. Eat only healthy foods and become obese.

No one is claiming to only eat lettuce. Healthy whole foods includes non lettuce items.

Yes, and if you eat them, in a moderate amount, you most likely will not get fat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As with many complex phenomena, it's obviously a combination of systemic failures and individual choices. We can't really control things like subsidies to the junk food industrial complex, but we do have some control over our individual choices. That is the point. When you go to a Super Walmart and spend your money on soda, that's a choice.

Yes, exactly. It's many things, but the only one we can control is what we eat.

What we eat, by carefully weighing and measuring it all, to make sure we are inside of the narrow band of allowable calories that will maintain a healthy weight, despite the signals from your body that that's not enough, because that's what your hunger hormones are telling you. The level of control required of weight loss maintainers is significant.

You cannot claim that all obese people have hormones telling them they are hungry all the time. It is well known that many overweight people eat for emotional reasons - not because they are hungry. Stress, anxiety, relationships, kids, work, depression, etc. Go to any weight loss forum and you will hear people that eat because it makes them psychologically feel better, food is their best friend. They eat well past the point of being satisfied from a physiological perspective. They are feeding emotional needs.

That is why we also need more available mental health treatments in this country.

The extraordinary results from the semaglutide clinical trials and associated reported experiential data from those trials seems to indicate you are abjectly wrong about the bolded.

Semaglutide and drugs like it make obese people not hungry. This has been shown robustly, in multiple studies. How on earth people like you can continue to ignore all scientific reality to make obesity some personal failing or mental health issue when we have this solid data is beyond me, but you or one of your buddies on this thread have already stated that you have no interest in actual science so I guess ignorance is your preferred state.

+1 this drug has handily disproven any myth that obese people are obese, at median, because they are eating for fun or pain and not due to hunger cues.

Smoking also suppresses your appetite. What is your point?

It still doesn't mean that people shouldn't focus on healthy eating and living to maintain a healthy weight and avoid obesity. You want to just throw away that message and send everyone straight to drugs?

Yes, but only because the drugs cure obesity and that message, even when offered as individualized nutritional counseling, failed to, any time it was studied. If it worked I’d be all for it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

Fine, so then admit that regulating food won't help you if you can become obese eating salad and apples.

but the thing is, two cups of salad is something like 15 calories (minus dressing)...so you'd have to eat literally 100 cups of salad just to get the caloric equivalent of say, three pieces of pizza. I don't think it is physically possible for your body to do that in a day, is it? (Not a facetious question.) If I ate 4 apples (400 calories) I think I'd be stuffed. If I ate a third of a bag of potato chips (also around 400 calories)...I would probably not be very satiated. So technically, yea, a calorie is a calorie from any food but it's physically very difficult (if not impossible for some foods) to eat the physical mass of said food you'd need to become obese.

Agree, but yet posters here are claiming they do just that. Eat only healthy foods and become obese.

No one is claiming to only eat lettuce. Healthy whole foods includes non lettuce items.

Yes, and if you eat them, in a moderate amount, you most likely will not get fat.

No one is saying that’s not true (as long as by “moderate” you actually mean “precisely the amount that will not cause weight gain.”) But many people are saying if you only eat healthful foods you can’t become obese. Which is absolute nonsense given, well, math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As with many complex phenomena, it's obviously a combination of systemic failures and individual choices. We can't really control things like subsidies to the junk food industrial complex, but we do have some control over our individual choices. That is the point. When you go to a Super Walmart and spend your money on soda, that's a choice.

Yes, exactly. It's many things, but the only one we can control is what we eat.

What we eat, by carefully weighing and measuring it all, to make sure we are inside of the narrow band of allowable calories that will maintain a healthy weight, despite the signals from your body that that's not enough, because that's what your hunger hormones are telling you. The level of control required of weight loss maintainers is significant.

You cannot claim that all obese people have hormones telling them they are hungry all the time. It is well known that many overweight people eat for emotional reasons - not because they are hungry. Stress, anxiety, relationships, kids, work, depression, etc. Go to any weight loss forum and you will hear people that eat because it makes them psychologically feel better, food is their best friend. They eat well past the point of being satisfied from a physiological perspective. They are feeding emotional needs.

That is why we also need more available mental health treatments in this country.

The extraordinary results from the semaglutide clinical trials and associated reported experiential data from those trials seems to indicate you are abjectly wrong about the bolded.

Semaglutide and drugs like it make obese people not hungry. This has been shown robustly, in multiple studies. How on earth people like you can continue to ignore all scientific reality to make obesity some personal failing or mental health issue when we have this solid data is beyond me, but you or one of your buddies on this thread have already stated that you have no interest in actual science so I guess ignorance is your preferred state.

+1 this drug has handily disproven any myth that obese people are obese, at median, because they are eating for fun or pain and not due to hunger cues.

Smoking also suppresses your appetite. What is your point?

It still doesn't mean that people shouldn't focus on healthy eating and living to maintain a healthy weight and avoid obesity. You want to just throw away that message and send everyone straight to drugs?

Yes, but only because the drugs cure obesity and that message, even when offered as individualized nutritional counseling, failed to, any time it was studied. If it worked I’d be all for it!

It is not bad advice for anyone, no matter age or shape or fitness, to eat healthy and move more!

If it doesn't work and you still become obese, great there are drugs and surgery.

But that doesn't mean that promoting a healthy diet and lifestyle are "shaming," which was the original point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

Fine, so then admit that regulating food won't help you if you can become obese eating salad and apples.

but the thing is, two cups of salad is something like 15 calories (minus dressing)...so you'd have to eat literally 100 cups of salad just to get the caloric equivalent of say, three pieces of pizza. I don't think it is physically possible for your body to do that in a day, is it? (Not a facetious question.) If I ate 4 apples (400 calories) I think I'd be stuffed. If I ate a third of a bag of potato chips (also around 400 calories)...I would probably not be very satiated. So technically, yea, a calorie is a calorie from any food but it's physically very difficult (if not impossible for some foods) to eat the physical mass of said food you'd need to become obese.

Agree, but yet posters here are claiming they do just that. Eat only healthy foods and become obese.

No one is claiming to only eat lettuce. Healthy whole foods includes non lettuce items.

Yes, and if you eat them, in a moderate amount, you most likely will not get fat.

No one is saying that’s not true (as long as by “moderate” you actually mean “precisely the amount that will not cause weight gain.”) But many people are saying if you only eat healthful foods you can’t become obese. Which is absolute nonsense given, well, math.

Some people are saying we need to completely overhaul the food industry so that only healthy foods are available, because otherwise people can't control themselves and will eat the junk.

Others are saying that even if only healthy food were left, people would still become obese.

So looks like we are all destined to become obese?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

This is not true at all. Different foods have vastly different effects on the body. Read Gary Taubes and Jason Fung.

They make a lot of claims but they don’t have the studies to support them.

Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat is literally a book about other actual studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how Americans like to blame individuals and think that everything is an individual fault but never hold corporations and government for creating a system that supports profits over human health and well-being responsible. Obesity will continue to grow in this country til food supply is fixed which will never happen in my lifetime for certain.

Look around you in the grocery store. Majority of carts filled to the brim with complete garbage. While fresh produce, milk, meats, whole grains are all around. People DONT WANT to eat heathy

And let’s assume that’s true. We should still address the food supply. Even if you don’t care about the health of your fellow human beings, the social and economic costs affect us all. And if all these smug people on here are eating as healthy as they say, they won’t miss the garbage at the store.

No one has to buy it. But good luck getting all food with carbs and sugar banned.

It’s not about banning everything and carbs aren’t even the enemy (that’s a marketing scheme you have fallen prey to, friend). It’s about getting some common-sense regulations to move the needle.

This is not going to work because no one can agree even on what to ban, or what is healthy vs. unhealthy.

Sugar? Obviously bad, but wait, what about corn syrup? Also bad. What about artificial sweeteners? Also bad. Stevia, or other natural sweeteners? Still sweet and produce an insulin response?

Okay how about fat. Trans fat was already taken out. What about saturated fat? Jury's still out on whether that's healthy or unhealthy. Vegetable oil? Same, mixed reviews, but it's definitely cheaper than olive oil and other specialty oils, so the financial impact to consumers also has to be considered.

What about non-GMO? Personally I see nothing wrong with GMOs, but even if you do, you would be hard-pressed to regulate against all GMO content in food. It's just too much.

What about hormones? What about soy's natural effect on estrogen? What about food coloring that causes behavior issues in kids?

There are simply too many things and they will be debating for years before agreeing to come up with even one simple regulation. It simply will not ever happen that all bad foods are wiped off the supermarket shelves.

That brings it back to individual CHOICE. There is no escaping this fact. People have to care and take responsibility for what they consume. It's really the only thing we can control (I would say exercise is possibly another but there are far more excuses about why that's not possible).

Even if we could wave a magic wand and instantly remove all the "bad food," there are plenty of people on here swearing that they can become obese on eating only healthy food.

I don't believe this, but say they are right. So then, there actually is no hope except, again, personal responsibility. Or drugs, I suppose.

Then you literally don't believe in math. Literally are not able to understand that a calorie is a calorie from any food; that maintaining an obese weight is only slightly different than maintaining a healthy weight. I just cannot wrap my mind around this level of ignorance.

Fine, so then admit that regulating food won't help you if you can become obese eating salad and apples.

but the thing is, two cups of salad is something like 15 calories (minus dressing)...so you'd have to eat literally 100 cups of salad just to get the caloric equivalent of say, three pieces of pizza. I don't think it is physically possible for your body to do that in a day, is it? (Not a facetious question.) If I ate 4 apples (400 calories) I think I'd be stuffed. If I ate a third of a bag of potato chips (also around 400 calories)...I would probably not be very satiated. So technically, yea, a calorie is a calorie from any food but it's physically very difficult (if not impossible for some foods) to eat the physical mass of said food you'd need to become obese.

Agree, but yet posters here are claiming they do just that. Eat only healthy foods and become obese.

No one is claiming to only eat lettuce. Healthy whole foods includes non lettuce items.

Yes, and if you eat them, in a moderate amount, you most likely will not get fat.

No one is saying that’s not true (as long as by “moderate” you actually mean “precisely the amount that will not cause weight gain.”) But many people are saying if you only eat healthful foods you can’t become obese. Which is absolute nonsense given, well, math.

Some people are saying we need to completely overhaul the food industry so that only healthy foods are available, because otherwise people can't control themselves and will eat the junk.

Others are saying that even if only healthy food were left, people would still become obese.

So looks like we are all destined to become obese?

Nearly 80% of Americans are overweight or obese. We are past “destined.” We are just describing reality at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As with many complex phenomena, it's obviously a combination of systemic failures and individual choices. We can't really control things like subsidies to the junk food industrial complex, but we do have some control over our individual choices. That is the point. When you go to a Super Walmart and spend your money on soda, that's a choice.

Yes, exactly. It's many things, but the only one we can control is what we eat.

What we eat, by carefully weighing and measuring it all, to make sure we are inside of the narrow band of allowable calories that will maintain a healthy weight, despite the signals from your body that that's not enough, because that's what your hunger hormones are telling you. The level of control required of weight loss maintainers is significant.

You cannot claim that all obese people have hormones telling them they are hungry all the time. It is well known that many overweight people eat for emotional reasons - not because they are hungry. Stress, anxiety, relationships, kids, work, depression, etc. Go to any weight loss forum and you will hear people that eat because it makes them psychologically feel better, food is their best friend. They eat well past the point of being satisfied from a physiological perspective. They are feeding emotional needs.

That is why we also need more available mental health treatments in this country.

The extraordinary results from the semaglutide clinical trials and associated reported experiential data from those trials seems to indicate you are abjectly wrong about the bolded.

Semaglutide and drugs like it make obese people not hungry. This has been shown robustly, in multiple studies. How on earth people like you can continue to ignore all scientific reality to make obesity some personal failing or mental health issue when we have this solid data is beyond me, but you or one of your buddies on this thread have already stated that you have no interest in actual science so I guess ignorance is your preferred state.

+1 this drug has handily disproven any myth that obese people are obese, at median, because they are eating for fun or pain and not due to hunger cues.

Smoking also suppresses your appetite. What is your point?

It still doesn't mean that people shouldn't focus on healthy eating and living to maintain a healthy weight and avoid obesity. You want to just throw away that message and send everyone straight to drugs?

Yes, but only because the drugs cure obesity and that message, even when offered as individualized nutritional counseling, failed to, any time it was studied. If it worked I’d be all for it!

It is not bad advice for anyone, no matter age or shape or fitness, to eat healthy and move more!

If it doesn't work and you still become obese, great there are drugs and surgery.

But that doesn't mean that promoting a healthy diet and lifestyle are "shaming," which was the original point.

You think people are getting weight loss surgery or starting a weight loss drug the minute they’re a pound into the obese category?

Most people spend years trying it your way before opting for surgery or a drug like Ozempic. We turn to surgical or pharmaceutical interventions because nothing else worked long term.