College Football--Big Ten Expansion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FSU may have engaged the services of an investment banker (JP Morgan Chase) and a private equity (PE firm Sixth Street) firm to raise money as well as to have access to sufficient capital to first make a settlement offer and to have a sufficient show of capital to fund an expensive court battle (which is a great & often effective settlement strategy).

Agree with the first part but there is no way there will be investor money to fund this lawsuit. They will fund a settlement. The outcome is not good. You could not get anyone to fund -- except alums and even they don't have that kind of cash.

Agree, but a show of force is often enough to get folks to the table and engage on a reasonable level regarding a settlement.

A show of force? If FSU offers 1.2 billion it will be considered. If they want to borrow it or sell their rights to Wall Street for the money nobody cares. Still might not be agreed to.

Some of us deal in the real world where business decisions typically involve some degree of bargaining and compromise while others may choose a hard-headed fight to the death type approach.

sigh. You are playing checkers. Chess is the game. What do the ACC schools that can't go anywhere want? It is not money. Duke and BC are loaded. What they want is a power conference. In other words they do not want the dollars -- they want the conference. So go ahead and sue us. You can't move until the litigation is over and appeals are over. No conference would touch you. Best case you sue and three years later you can move because you won. But three years from now there may be no slots. You will be screwed. The ACC schools that can't get anywhere else are not going to be reasonable. Why would they. They have you over a barrel. You can't give them what they want. The ACC has to either expand or get taken by the SEC and Big10.

BC and Duke should be smart enough to know that the ACC is no longer a power conference. There are only two of those - the Big and SEC. It is the ACC playing checkers. They are looking to add Cal and Stanford because of academics. The Big who talks a good game of valuing academics just added Oregon and WAS over these schools. The Big 12 even passed on them. So the ACC is looking to add sloppy thirds all because the President's of these schools are enamored with their academics. The fact that they are even considering them shows the majority of these schools are not concerned about being in a power conference. It is also clear that they are not remotely concerned about FSU or any one else leaving.

Like the Big 12 wasn’t concerned about Texas and Oklahoma, and the PAC-12 wasn’t concerned about USC and UCLA.

Big 12 and BIG both passed on Cal and Stanford

Big 12 only added, UCF, Houston, etc... AFTER Texas and Oklahoma left. They never would have added those schools if they thought it would help push Texas and Oklahoma out the door. If the ACC adds Cal and Stanford, this will help push FSU and others out the door.

Great point. Both the Big Ten Conference and the Big 12 Conference passed on Cal & Stanford.

Unless the ACC can get Notre Dame by adding Cal & Stanford, then the ACC willprobably pass as well.

[Anonymous]

Good article regarding Stanford and ACC:

https://cbssports.com/college-football/news/california-stanford-interested-in-acc-conference-set-to-evaluate-viability-of-adding-pac-12-teams/

Stanford is thinking about becoming an independent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in this thread there is a lack of understanding about what is important to the high academic schools.

Stanford does not recruit against Cal. Much like ND their base is national.

And it is smart. Will they dip to a solid B student who as no chance of getting in otherwise but is solid as a student and a great receiver-- yes. A few recruits. Most of the rest are A students. They are going to Stanford because they are smart and because they are really good at football. There are maybe 5 kids that would be recruited by both Stanford and Alabama.

What is important to Stanford as a university is to play good games against good teams so that the rest of the student body has a break from learning to change the universe. National Title run? Great. But it is a adjunct to the school, the tail not the dog.

That is what they care about.

Duke and BC are somewhat similar even if lower ranked by USNWS. BC is not taking C students on their teams. It is what has killed them in basketball. Duke makes exceptions for basketball and only a little for football.

In football neither wants to compete for a national championship. If they got one, great. But that is not the goal. They want games against Clemson, Miami, FSU that they win or lose but that students and alums like. For BC it is ok to beat FSU only once in a while so the kids can storm the field.

Those schools want a top conference for the games.

These schools (and Wake most likely) have different motivations.

That is why this is difficult. If everyone wanted just football glory or money this would be easy. But there is more of an agenda here for a number of the schools.

Oh please. Of course Stanford competes for top recruits in football. The vast majority of “qualified” recruits are not in the slightest bit interested in playing for a mediocre program with limited television exposure. Their base is National like ND? You can’t be serious. Almost nobody cares about Stanford football nationally. You’re conflating high quality academics with major athletics. Stanford excels in academics of course and in the esoteric sports that draw little interest from the vast majority of the country.

Duke makes huge concessions for basketball. Notre Dame makes large concessions for football as well. You make it sound like all of these schools are so much more concerned about all of their athletes being top student in academics than other top schools who do compete. It’s simply not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think in this thread there is a lack of understanding about what is important to the high academic schools.

Stanford does not recruit against Cal. Much like ND their base is national.

And it is smart. Will they dip to a solid B student who as no chance of getting in otherwise but is solid as a student and a great receiver-- yes. A few recruits. Most of the rest are A students. They are going to Stanford because they are smart and because they are really good at football. There are maybe 5 kids that would be recruited by both Stanford and Alabama.

What is important to Stanford as a university is to play good games against good teams so that the rest of the student body has a break from learning to change the universe. National Title run? Great. But it is a adjunct to the school, the tail not the dog.

That is what they care about.

Duke and BC are somewhat similar even if lower ranked by USNWS. BC is not taking C students on their teams. It is what has killed them in basketball. Duke makes exceptions for basketball and only a little for football.

In football neither wants to compete for a national championship. If they got one, great. But that is not the goal. They want games against Clemson, Miami, FSU that they win or lose but that students and alums like. For BC it is ok to beat FSU only once in a while so the kids can storm the field.

Those schools want a top conference for the games.

These schools (and Wake most likely) have different motivations.

That is why this is difficult. If everyone wanted just football glory or money this would be easy. But there is more of an agenda here for a number of the schools.

Oh please. Of course Stanford competes for top recruits in football. The vast majority of “qualified” recruits are not in the slightest bit interested in playing for a mediocre program with limited television exposure. Their base is National like ND? You can’t be serious. Almost nobody cares about Stanford football nationally. You’re conflating high quality academics with major athletics. Stanford excels in academics of course and in the esoteric sports that draw little interest from the vast majority of the country.

Duke makes huge concessions for basketball. Notre Dame makes large concessions for football as well. You make it sound like all of these schools are so much more concerned about all of their athletes being top student in academics than other top schools who do compete. It’s simply not true.

(OP here)

Almost in 100% agreement.

The bolded is actually an understatement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good article regarding Stanford and ACC:

https://cbssports.com/college-football/news/california-stanford-interested-in-acc-conference-set-to-evaluate-viability-of-adding-pac-12-teams/

Stanford is thinking about becoming an independent.

I didn’t read the article, but I assume if Stanford becomes an independent, it will stay that way until they get invited to officially join the B1G. The Big Ten just added 4 teams. I assume in a couple of years or so, 6 more will be added. I can see Stanford, Berkeley, 3 teams from the south/east, and ND to round out the ultimate final number of schools to 24.

[Anonymous]

Great article. Very short. No BS.

Chip Kelley who is the current head football coach at UCLA . Was head coach at Oregon & in the NFL. (Not to be confused with LSU Head Coach Brian Kelley who left Notre Dame to coach at LSU.)

https://sports.yahoo.com/uclas-chip-kelley-points-notre-191355185.html

The above link may require one to click on "sports" to find today's Chip Kelley article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good article regarding Stanford and ACC:

https://cbssports.com/college-football/news/california-stanford-interested-in-acc-conference-set-to-evaluate-viability-of-adding-pac-12-teams/

Stanford is thinking about becoming an independent.

I didn’t read the article, but I assume if Stanford becomes an independent, it will stay that way until they get invited to officially join the B1G. The Big Ten just added 4 teams. I assume in a couple of years or so, 6 more will be added. I can see Stanford, Berkeley, 3 teams from the south/east, and ND to round out the ultimate final number of schools to 24.

Reasonable thoughts. We really do not know the Big Ten Conference's vision.

I just read a Chip Kelley (head football coach at UCLA and formerly at U Oregon) article on yahoo sports. Kelley stated that recruiting the top football prospects is primarily about NIL = which team's supporters are offering the most money.

NIL is really only about the top football recruits, however.

[Anonymous]

“In 1895, Notre Dame football played a 4 game schedule. The four opponents were:

Northwestern Law
Illinois Cycling Club
Indianapolis Light Artillery
Physicians and Surgeons”

All worthy opponents at the time, but they all eventually fizzled. Northwestern Law dropped football in the wake of the ‘02 hazing scandal. Illinois Cycling broke up in ‘99 when its members couldn’t agree on whether a diversity initiative should include Presbyterians. Indy Light Artillery was absorbed by Indy Heavy Artillery at the request of its media partner, Western Union. Physicians & Surgeons disbanded in ‘98 due to their famous dispute over whether or not to merge with arch rival Dentists & Barbers. The main sticking point was the inclusion of a pomade innovation in D&B’s NSF research profile.

[Anonymous]

If you have time, read the player profiles on the Stanford transfer portal. One huge lineman (from an elite Wash DC private school Sidwell Friends) from the DMV is transferring out of Stanford due to lack of fan & student body support for Stanford's football team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think in this thread there is a lack of understanding about what is important to the high academic schools.

Stanford does not recruit against Cal. Much like ND their base is national.

And it is smart. Will they dip to a solid B student who as no chance of getting in otherwise but is solid as a student and a great receiver-- yes. A few recruits. Most of the rest are A students. They are going to Stanford because they are smart and because they are really good at football. There are maybe 5 kids that would be recruited by both Stanford and Alabama.

What is important to Stanford as a university is to play good games against good teams so that the rest of the student body has a break from learning to change the universe. National Title run? Great. But it is a adjunct to the school, the tail not the dog.

That is what they care about.

Duke and BC are somewhat similar even if lower ranked by USNWS. BC is not taking C students on their teams. It is what has killed them in basketball. Duke makes exceptions for basketball and only a little for football.

In football neither wants to compete for a national championship. If they got one, great. But that is not the goal. They want games against Clemson, Miami, FSU that they win or lose but that students and alums like. For BC it is ok to beat FSU only once in a while so the kids can storm the field.

Those schools want a top conference for the games.

These schools (and Wake most likely) have different motivations.

That is why this is difficult. If everyone wanted just football glory or money this would be easy. But there is more of an agenda here for a number of the schools.

Oh please. Of course Stanford competes for top recruits in football. The vast majority of “qualified” recruits are not in the slightest bit interested in playing for a mediocre program with limited television exposure. Their base is National like ND? You can’t be serious. Almost nobody cares about Stanford football nationally. You’re conflating high quality academics with major athletics. Stanford excels in academics of course and in the esoteric sports that draw little interest from the vast majority of the country.

Duke makes huge concessions for basketball. Notre Dame makes large concessions for football as well. You make it sound like all of these schools are so much more concerned about all of their athletes being top student in academics than other top schools who do compete. It’s simply not true.

Unlike Notre Dame, Stanford has ZERO nationally following in football and thus would not draw any kind of media rights contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have time, read the player profiles on the Stanford transfer portal. One huge lineman (from an elite Wash DC private school Sidwell Friends) from the DMV is transferring out of Stanford due to lack of fan & student body support for Stanford's football team.

He got his degree and transferred to Oklahoma because he still had a year of eligibility and believes OU will give him a better shot at the NFL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“In 1895, Notre Dame football played a 4 game schedule. The four opponents were:

Northwestern Law
Illinois Cycling Club
Indianapolis Light Artillery
Physicians and Surgeons”

All worthy opponents at the time, but they all eventually fizzled. Northwestern Law dropped football in the wake of the ‘02 hazing scandal. Illinois Cycling broke up in ‘99 when its members couldn’t agree on whether a diversity initiative should include Presbyterians. Indy Light Artillery was absorbed by Indy Heavy Artillery at the request of its media partner, Western Union. Physicians & Surgeons disbanded in ‘98 due to their famous dispute over whether or not to merge with arch rival Dentists & Barbers. The main sticking point was the inclusion of a pomade innovation in D&B’s NSF research profile.

Exactly the type of creative thinking that we need in order to assist Cal & Stanford find suitable housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“In 1895, Notre Dame football played a 4 game schedule. The four opponents were:

Northwestern Law
Illinois Cycling Club
Indianapolis Light Artillery
Physicians and Surgeons”

All worthy opponents at the time, but they all eventually fizzled. Northwestern Law dropped football in the wake of the ‘02 hazing scandal. Illinois Cycling broke up in ‘99 when its members couldn’t agree on whether a diversity initiative should include Presbyterians. Indy Light Artillery was absorbed by Indy Heavy Artillery at the request of its media partner, Western Union. Physicians & Surgeons disbanded in ‘98 due to their famous dispute over whether or not to merge with arch rival Dentists & Barbers. The main sticking point was the inclusion of a pomade innovation in D&B’s NSF research profile.

Post of the year, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have time, read the player profiles on the Stanford transfer portal. One huge lineman (from an elite Wash DC private school Sidwell Friends) from the DMV is transferring out of Stanford due to lack of fan & student body support for Stanford's football team.

He got his degree and transferred to Oklahoma because he still had a year of eligibility and believes OU will give him a better shot at the NFL.

Oh and this was done last winter, nothing to do with the current situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in this thread there is a lack of understanding about what is important to the high academic schools.

Stanford does not recruit against Cal. Much like ND their base is national.

And it is smart. Will they dip to a solid B student who as no chance of getting in otherwise but is solid as a student and a great receiver-- yes. A few recruits. Most of the rest are A students. They are going to Stanford because they are smart and because they are really good at football. There are maybe 5 kids that would be recruited by both Stanford and Alabama.

What is important to Stanford as a university is to play good games against good teams so that the rest of the student body has a break from learning to change the universe. National Title run? Great. But it is a adjunct to the school, the tail not the dog.

That is what they care about.

Duke and BC are somewhat similar even if lower ranked by USNWS. BC is not taking C students on their teams. It is what has killed them in basketball. Duke makes exceptions for basketball and only a little for football.

In football neither wants to compete for a national championship. If they got one, great. But that is not the goal. They want games against Clemson, Miami, FSU that they win or lose but that students and alums like. For BC it is ok to beat FSU only once in a while so the kids can storm the field.

Those schools want a top conference for the games.

These schools (and Wake most likely) have different motivations.

That is why this is difficult. If everyone wanted just football glory or money this would be easy. But there is more of an agenda here for a number of the schools.

There are more of them than you think, including the kid from Sidwell.