3 children dead in private Christian elementary school shooting in TN

[Anonymous]

What can we do to decrease gun deaths? Also nobody is daying eliminate. Reduce. Gunshot wounds are the number one cause of death in the US and tje GOP is deflecting with legislation about trans kids and books. GUNS ARE THE ACTUAL DANGER.

Please source that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What can we do to decrease gun deaths? Also nobody is daying eliminate. Reduce. Gunshot wounds are the number one cause of death in the US and tje GOP is deflecting with legislation about trans kids and books. GUNS ARE THE ACTUAL DANGER.

Please source that.

I meant *pediatric* deaths.

https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What can we do to decrease gun deaths? Also nobody is daying eliminate. Reduce. Gunshot wounds are the number one cause of death in the US and tje GOP is deflecting with legislation about trans kids and books. GUNS ARE THE ACTUAL DANGER.

Please source that.

I meant *pediatric* deaths.

https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/

DP and this is why the GOP are a bunch of hypocrites who froth at the mouth over banning books or trans healthcare while completely shrugging on the ACTUAL cause of death for most kids in the US.

[Anonymous]

I think the GOP is using all these mass shootings to keep us scared, while doing nothing. It's a win win for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ust curious... How can you require insurance for something that is considered a right (2nd amendment).

How absurd. Long ago when freedom of the press was included, you had to pay to buy a newspaper. You do realize people buy guns and ammo, right? So why not insurance for the gun?
Parroting right-wing talking points that aren't well-thought-out doesn't advance the conversation.

False equivlance.

You don't have to pay to buy a newspaper. You can get free papers. People distribute pamphlets etc. You can state your views while standing on a soapbox. You aren't required to buy insurance to do any of that.

Well you have to pay to buy a gun and ammo. So there is no scenario in which you can exercise your second amendment right for free to begin with. You are not as clever as you think you are with your nonsensical arguments about free newspapers.

And if you don’t like requiring citizens to buy insurance then let’s place the insurance requirements on the gun manufacturers and gun dealers. Once they can get sued, they will figure out a way to assess risk of gun sales. They care more about their pockets than school children, so let’s hit them with the financial costs.

Also, no more immunity for gun manufacturers. That is absolutely outside the scope of the 2nd amendment.

You can make your own guns and ammo without government interference. There are no background checks either.

You still have to buy the materials. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The manifesto is going to be released:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/nashville-shooter-audrey-hale-s-manifesto-to-be-released-official/ar-AA19f7c5

Like a lot of people, I'll read it out of general interest, but it's not going to change the fact that it was written by a disturbed person with guns who wanted to get famous and commit suicide by cop. I mean, does it really matter what reasons these killers give for why they kill? They all have some kind of grievances, real or imagined, and they are clearly intent on dying and taking others with them in a very newsworthy fashion. The only mass killer in recent history whose motives I'd like to know is the Las Vegas shooter. He killed 60 people and wounded 100s of others and nobody knows why.

+1 doesn't matter any more than the Buffalo grocery racist shooter nor the congressional baseball game shooter. It's all just a reason to deflect from...

What can we do to decrease gun deaths? Also nobody is daying eliminate. Reduce. Gunshot wounds are the number one cause of death in the US and tje GOP is deflecting with legislation about trans kids and books. GUNS ARE THE ACTUAL DANGER.

This is so ignorant. When Al Queda flew a plane into the Twin Towers we didn’t just throw up our hands and say motives don’t matter let’s put our heads in the sand and not care about motive whatsoever. We spent trillions of dollars going after the ideology that undergirded the attack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The manifesto is going to be released:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/nashville-shooter-audrey-hale-s-manifesto-to-be-released-official/ar-AA19f7c5

Like a lot of people, I'll read it out of general interest, but it's not going to change the fact that it was written by a disturbed person with guns who wanted to get famous and commit suicide by cop. I mean, does it really matter what reasons these killers give for why they kill? They all have some kind of grievances, real or imagined, and they are clearly intent on dying and taking others with them in a very newsworthy fashion. The only mass killer in recent history whose motives I'd like to know is the Las Vegas shooter. He killed 60 people and wounded 100s of others and nobody knows why.

+1 doesn't matter any more than the Buffalo grocery racist shooter nor the congressional baseball game shooter. It's all just a reason to deflect from...

What can we do to decrease gun deaths? Also nobody is daying eliminate. Reduce. Gunshot wounds are the number one cause of death in the US and tje GOP is deflecting with legislation about trans kids and books. GUNS ARE THE ACTUAL DANGER.

This is so ignorant. When Al Queda flew a plane into the Twin Towers we didn’t just throw up our hands and say motives don’t matter let’s put our heads in the sand and not care about motive whatsoever. We spent trillions of dollars going after the ideology that undergirded the attack.

Sure if there was one ideology but there isn't. The motives are all over the board from the left to the right and on between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The manifesto is going to be released:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/nashville-shooter-audrey-hale-s-manifesto-to-be-released-official/ar-AA19f7c5

Like a lot of people, I'll read it out of general interest, but it's not going to change the fact that it was written by a disturbed person with guns who wanted to get famous and commit suicide by cop. I mean, does it really matter what reasons these killers give for why they kill? They all have some kind of grievances, real or imagined, and they are clearly intent on dying and taking others with them in a very newsworthy fashion. The only mass killer in recent history whose motives I'd like to know is the Las Vegas shooter. He killed 60 people and wounded 100s of others and nobody knows why.

+1 doesn't matter any more than the Buffalo grocery racist shooter nor the congressional baseball game shooter. It's all just a reason to deflect from...

What can we do to decrease gun deaths? Also nobody is daying eliminate. Reduce. Gunshot wounds are the number one cause of death in the US and tje GOP is deflecting with legislation about trans kids and books. GUNS ARE THE ACTUAL DANGER.

This is so ignorant. When Al Queda flew a plane into the Twin Towers we didn’t just throw up our hands and say motives don’t matter let’s put our heads in the sand and not care about motive whatsoever. We spent trillions of dollars going after the ideology that undergirded the attack.

Sure if there was one ideology but there isn't. The motives are all over the board from the left to the right and on between.

Ignorant is BOTH the left and right trying to blame this or that motive. All of it is a distraction. From the racist mass shooters like Buffalo or the Charleston church to the left wing mass shooter like the dude at the congressional congress game.

It's not the motive each time when they are so freaking varied, it's someone in crisis suddenly buying a ton of guns or (in the case of Ulvade) 1600(!) rounds without anyone batting an eyelash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bickering is disrespectful And insensitive to the middle TN community.

Let’s have a moment here to reflect on what happened, and envelop these families in love and support.

? This isn’t a site they are reading and we are not close by. Where we are close by is the federal government. What is so insensitive?

Being respectful of families who lost loved ones in a mass shooting this week is something we should all do, regardless of what state we live in. Living in a different state than someone doesn't negate the expectation of basic human decency towards them online.

Basic human decency is we can't discuss what happened AGAIN? Respectful is ensuring that this doesn't happen to another person/child/family/teacher. Disrespectful is saying "thoughts and prayers" and "let's not get emotional now". I find your post horrifically disrespectful, like shrugging your shoulders at babies being slaughtered.

Stop with the faux outrage and political vomit. This can be politicized both ways easily, but I don't want to stoop to such a low.

Verily, families of Covenant Prebyterian would appreciate thoughts and prayers and support right now.

No. I am the OP. I have previously posted that I have:

1) Comforted a close friend who knew a child from Sandy Hook and attended their funeral
2) Hid under my desk at work due to an active shooter scare
3) A close family member happened not to shop at the Buffalo grocery store the day of that shooting.

I could go on about more issues. Heard gunshots from my house and called police (I live in a city). Have close family members who are teachers AND who are law enforcement.

It's REAL outrage and it's personal. Maybe it's not personal for you yet, but it will be because it's not ending. I literally do not understand your lack of empathy for why people are so upset, why they want (yes) political action, because yes, that is the only solution, the only way forward is to DO SOMETHING. Thoughts and prayers and nothing else is shameful. If it were my child, I'd want CHANGE, to ensure it never happened to another person.

From what I have read here, the "do something" people want to do something that will not be effective.
You talk about taking away all guns. That is just NOT going to happen. So, what do you recommend?

I've followed this entire thread and there are very few posts about taking all guns. Do not lie.

Some ideas for sensible gun ownership:

-Red flag laws at the federal level with drastic education about how and when to use them
-Mental health assessment for owning a gun
-Gun education class and test required to pass to own a gun like the Swiss do
-Raise minimum age to 21 to own a gun (yes in this case, it wouldn't help, but plenty of cases where it would)
-Anyone suddenly buying lots of guns all of a sudden triggers scrutiny, additional review. This woman was able to purchase 7 guns LEGALLY. That's ridiculous! It's also why democratic cities are overwhelmed with gun violence - majority of guns in crime are trafficked in from permissive gun law states statistically
-Anmunition cap

For starters.

What have you got other than thoughts and prayers and shrugging shoulders?

Just a few thoughts.....

I am all for red flag laws. As long as they are not abused.
Mental health screening for owning a gun? That is not going to happen. And, in the end... it would not be effective. Better for mental health professionals to report those who should not have access to firearms.
I'm good with a gun education class. Most firearms users do that. I did. Many gun shops will give free courses when a firearm is purchased. That is a good thing. The more education, the better.
How do we know this person "suddenly" purchased 7 guns. I have seen no reports of the time period in which she purchased them.
An ammunition cap would be crazy. It would mean that gun owners would spend less time practicing. You don't want that. Legal gun owners go to the range to practice so they can be responsible owners. A cap on ammunition would be defeating.

You and everyone like you is why we have mass shootings every few days. It’s you. You’re the problem.

What it would actually require to solve the problem is mass curtailment of civil rights and a police state.

Not sure how the freedom from being shot at school is a curtailment of civil rights. Seems like the other way around.

Ok, so lets say you want to end gun crime and prevent the mentally ill from shooting up schools. A laudable pursuit for sure.

To end gun crime, you have to round up guns. In order to do that you have to do the following:

1) Stop and frisk without probable cause
2) Target communities that commit crime at higher rates than others and tend not to have records for their firearms
3) Because we don't have firearms records for a sizeable number of firearms, we need door to door searches, particularly of people who are armed and are motivated to keep their firearms be they a criminal element, or those who believe they have a god given right to keep them
4) criminalized free speech in being able to distribute files for the creation of firearms via 3d printing

So now that we've broken the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments and had to create a giant police state, we have now provided the government with the powers to do the same for any other reason, and massively expanded police powers,

How do we also look at preventing school shootings

1) violate civil rights of people who have never committed a crime because we think they might commit a crime with red flag laws by seizing their property
2) forcing people to get treatment for mental illness when they haven't hurt anyone
3) institutionalizing people who haven't hurt themselves or others
4) created a massive surveillance state where people now report on others to the government

Do you want to live in a USA with a severely curtailed 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment and increased police powers?

I live in a blue city with guns freely accessed and trafficked from red states so I blame the GOP for every gunshot I hear. Literally just implementing already constitutional blue state gun laws at a federal level would reduce crime in my backyard FFS. Our local criminals source their weapons from the GOP states.

Ok so let's say we implement blue state gun laws tomorrow.

How will you remove the 400 million guns in circulation?

You have to go through a similar suspension of civil rights to do so.

Are we collectively willing to give up those protections?

People say you love guns more than kids. No, I want to live in a free country, not a police state. That's why I moved here from a communist country.

You remove the guns from circulation with generous buy backs and stiff penalties for anyone found with an unregistered gun. It will take years. And it won’t get every illegal gun off the street. But it’s a start. We will be so much better off in 10-20 years if we start cleaning up our country now than just allowing the problem to keep growing.

Also, if you are a responsible legal gun owner, what the heck are you scared of? Some paperwork? You do paperwork to own a car, vote, receive mail, etc.?

I would fill out a giant stack of paperwork if it might have any chance of preventing some murders of children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ust curious... How can you require insurance for something that is considered a right (2nd amendment).

How absurd. Long ago when freedom of the press was included, you had to pay to buy a newspaper. You do realize people buy guns and ammo, right? So why not insurance for the gun?
Parroting right-wing talking points that aren't well-thought-out doesn't advance the conversation.

False equivlance.

You don't have to pay to buy a newspaper. You can get free papers. People distribute pamphlets etc. You can state your views while standing on a soapbox. You aren't required to buy insurance to do any of that.

Well you have to pay to buy a gun and ammo. So there is no scenario in which you can exercise your second amendment right for free to begin with. You are not as clever as you think you are with your nonsensical arguments about free newspapers.

And if you don’t like requiring citizens to buy insurance then let’s place the insurance requirements on the gun manufacturers and gun dealers. Once they can get sued, they will figure out a way to assess risk of gun sales. They care more about their pockets than school children, so let’s hit them with the financial costs.

Also, no more immunity for gun manufacturers. That is absolutely outside the scope of the 2nd amendment.

You can make your own guns and ammo without government interference. There are no background checks either.

You still have to buy the materials. Try again.

No, you can build a firearm for free if someone gives you the parts. You don't have to spend a dime to use your rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bickering is disrespectful And insensitive to the middle TN community.

Let’s have a moment here to reflect on what happened, and envelop these families in love and support.

? This isn’t a site they are reading and we are not close by. Where we are close by is the federal government. What is so insensitive?

Being respectful of families who lost loved ones in a mass shooting this week is something we should all do, regardless of what state we live in. Living in a different state than someone doesn't negate the expectation of basic human decency towards them online.

Basic human decency is we can't discuss what happened AGAIN? Respectful is ensuring that this doesn't happen to another person/child/family/teacher. Disrespectful is saying "thoughts and prayers" and "let's not get emotional now". I find your post horrifically disrespectful, like shrugging your shoulders at babies being slaughtered.

Stop with the faux outrage and political vomit. This can be politicized both ways easily, but I don't want to stoop to such a low.

Verily, families of Covenant Prebyterian would appreciate thoughts and prayers and support right now.

No. I am the OP. I have previously posted that I have:

1) Comforted a close friend who knew a child from Sandy Hook and attended their funeral
2) Hid under my desk at work due to an active shooter scare
3) A close family member happened not to shop at the Buffalo grocery store the day of that shooting.

I could go on about more issues. Heard gunshots from my house and called police (I live in a city). Have close family members who are teachers AND who are law enforcement.

It's REAL outrage and it's personal. Maybe it's not personal for you yet, but it will be because it's not ending. I literally do not understand your lack of empathy for why people are so upset, why they want (yes) political action, because yes, that is the only solution, the only way forward is to DO SOMETHING. Thoughts and prayers and nothing else is shameful. If it were my child, I'd want CHANGE, to ensure it never happened to another person.

From what I have read here, the "do something" people want to do something that will not be effective.
You talk about taking away all guns. That is just NOT going to happen. So, what do you recommend?

I've followed this entire thread and there are very few posts about taking all guns. Do not lie.

Some ideas for sensible gun ownership:

-Red flag laws at the federal level with drastic education about how and when to use them
-Mental health assessment for owning a gun
-Gun education class and test required to pass to own a gun like the Swiss do
-Raise minimum age to 21 to own a gun (yes in this case, it wouldn't help, but plenty of cases where it would)
-Anyone suddenly buying lots of guns all of a sudden triggers scrutiny, additional review. This woman was able to purchase 7 guns LEGALLY. That's ridiculous! It's also why democratic cities are overwhelmed with gun violence - majority of guns in crime are trafficked in from permissive gun law states statistically
-Anmunition cap

For starters.

What have you got other than thoughts and prayers and shrugging shoulders?

Just a few thoughts.....

I am all for red flag laws. As long as they are not abused.
Mental health screening for owning a gun? That is not going to happen. And, in the end... it would not be effective. Better for mental health professionals to report those who should not have access to firearms.
I'm good with a gun education class. Most firearms users do that. I did. Many gun shops will give free courses when a firearm is purchased. That is a good thing. The more education, the better.
How do we know this person "suddenly" purchased 7 guns. I have seen no reports of the time period in which she purchased them.
An ammunition cap would be crazy. It would mean that gun owners would spend less time practicing. You don't want that. Legal gun owners go to the range to practice so they can be responsible owners. A cap on ammunition would be defeating.

You and everyone like you is why we have mass shootings every few days. It’s you. You’re the problem.

What it would actually require to solve the problem is mass curtailment of civil rights and a police state.

Not sure how the freedom from being shot at school is a curtailment of civil rights. Seems like the other way around.

Ok, so lets say you want to end gun crime and prevent the mentally ill from shooting up schools. A laudable pursuit for sure.

To end gun crime, you have to round up guns. In order to do that you have to do the following:

1) Stop and frisk without probable cause
2) Target communities that commit crime at higher rates than others and tend not to have records for their firearms
3) Because we don't have firearms records for a sizeable number of firearms, we need door to door searches, particularly of people who are armed and are motivated to keep their firearms be they a criminal element, or those who believe they have a god given right to keep them
4) criminalized free speech in being able to distribute files for the creation of firearms via 3d printing

So now that we've broken the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments and had to create a giant police state, we have now provided the government with the powers to do the same for any other reason, and massively expanded police powers,

How do we also look at preventing school shootings

1) violate civil rights of people who have never committed a crime because we think they might commit a crime with red flag laws by seizing their property
2) forcing people to get treatment for mental illness when they haven't hurt anyone
3) institutionalizing people who haven't hurt themselves or others
4) created a massive surveillance state where people now report on others to the government

Do you want to live in a USA with a severely curtailed 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment and increased police powers?

I live in a blue city with guns freely accessed and trafficked from red states so I blame the GOP for every gunshot I hear. Literally just implementing already constitutional blue state gun laws at a federal level would reduce crime in my backyard FFS. Our local criminals source their weapons from the GOP states.

Ok so let's say we implement blue state gun laws tomorrow.

How will you remove the 400 million guns in circulation?

You have to go through a similar suspension of civil rights to do so.

Are we collectively willing to give up those protections?

People say you love guns more than kids. No, I want to live in a free country, not a police state. That's why I moved here from a communist country.

You remove the guns from circulation with generous buy backs and stiff penalties for anyone found with an unregistered gun. It will take years. And it won’t get every illegal gun off the street. But it’s a start. We will be so much better off in 10-20 years if we start cleaning up our country now than just allowing the problem to keep growing.

Also, if you are a responsible legal gun owner, what the heck are you scared of? Some paperwork? You do paperwork to own a car, vote, receive mail, etc.?

I would fill out a giant stack of paperwork if it might have any chance of preventing some murders of children.

I fear an intrusive government that abuses its power. Too much of that in the old country.

Having penalities won't disuade those that are looking to end their lives and take as many as they can with them.

Furthermore, I don't want to live in a country where the government can search me without reason, abuse POC, or provide an illusion of safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bickering is disrespectful And insensitive to the middle TN community.

Let’s have a moment here to reflect on what happened, and envelop these families in love and support.

? This isn’t a site they are reading and we are not close by. Where we are close by is the federal government. What is so insensitive?

Being respectful of families who lost loved ones in a mass shooting this week is something we should all do, regardless of what state we live in. Living in a different state than someone doesn't negate the expectation of basic human decency towards them online.

Basic human decency is we can't discuss what happened AGAIN? Respectful is ensuring that this doesn't happen to another person/child/family/teacher. Disrespectful is saying "thoughts and prayers" and "let's not get emotional now". I find your post horrifically disrespectful, like shrugging your shoulders at babies being slaughtered.

Stop with the faux outrage and political vomit. This can be politicized both ways easily, but I don't want to stoop to such a low.

Verily, families of Covenant Prebyterian would appreciate thoughts and prayers and support right now.

No. I am the OP. I have previously posted that I have:

1) Comforted a close friend who knew a child from Sandy Hook and attended their funeral
2) Hid under my desk at work due to an active shooter scare
3) A close family member happened not to shop at the Buffalo grocery store the day of that shooting.

I could go on about more issues. Heard gunshots from my house and called police (I live in a city). Have close family members who are teachers AND who are law enforcement.

It's REAL outrage and it's personal. Maybe it's not personal for you yet, but it will be because it's not ending. I literally do not understand your lack of empathy for why people are so upset, why they want (yes) political action, because yes, that is the only solution, the only way forward is to DO SOMETHING. Thoughts and prayers and nothing else is shameful. If it were my child, I'd want CHANGE, to ensure it never happened to another person.

From what I have read here, the "do something" people want to do something that will not be effective.
You talk about taking away all guns. That is just NOT going to happen. So, what do you recommend?

I've followed this entire thread and there are very few posts about taking all guns. Do not lie.

Some ideas for sensible gun ownership:

-Red flag laws at the federal level with drastic education about how and when to use them
-Mental health assessment for owning a gun
-Gun education class and test required to pass to own a gun like the Swiss do
-Raise minimum age to 21 to own a gun (yes in this case, it wouldn't help, but plenty of cases where it would)
-Anyone suddenly buying lots of guns all of a sudden triggers scrutiny, additional review. This woman was able to purchase 7 guns LEGALLY. That's ridiculous! It's also why democratic cities are overwhelmed with gun violence - majority of guns in crime are trafficked in from permissive gun law states statistically
-Anmunition cap

For starters.

What have you got other than thoughts and prayers and shrugging shoulders?

Just a few thoughts.....

I am all for red flag laws. As long as they are not abused.
Mental health screening for owning a gun? That is not going to happen. And, in the end... it would not be effective. Better for mental health professionals to report those who should not have access to firearms.
I'm good with a gun education class. Most firearms users do that. I did. Many gun shops will give free courses when a firearm is purchased. That is a good thing. The more education, the better.
How do we know this person "suddenly" purchased 7 guns. I have seen no reports of the time period in which she purchased them.
An ammunition cap would be crazy. It would mean that gun owners would spend less time practicing. You don't want that. Legal gun owners go to the range to practice so they can be responsible owners. A cap on ammunition would be defeating.

You and everyone like you is why we have mass shootings every few days. It’s you. You’re the problem.

What it would actually require to solve the problem is mass curtailment of civil rights and a police state.

Not sure how the freedom from being shot at school is a curtailment of civil rights. Seems like the other way around.

Ok, so lets say you want to end gun crime and prevent the mentally ill from shooting up schools. A laudable pursuit for sure.

To end gun crime, you have to round up guns. In order to do that you have to do the following:

1) Stop and frisk without probable cause
2) Target communities that commit crime at higher rates than others and tend not to have records for their firearms
3) Because we don't have firearms records for a sizeable number of firearms, we need door to door searches, particularly of people who are armed and are motivated to keep their firearms be they a criminal element, or those who believe they have a god given right to keep them
4) criminalized free speech in being able to distribute files for the creation of firearms via 3d printing

So now that we've broken the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments and had to create a giant police state, we have now provided the government with the powers to do the same for any other reason, and massively expanded police powers,

How do we also look at preventing school shootings

1) violate civil rights of people who have never committed a crime because we think they might commit a crime with red flag laws by seizing their property
2) forcing people to get treatment for mental illness when they haven't hurt anyone
3) institutionalizing people who haven't hurt themselves or others
4) created a massive surveillance state where people now report on others to the government

Do you want to live in a USA with a severely curtailed 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment and increased police powers?

I live in a blue city with guns freely accessed and trafficked from red states so I blame the GOP for every gunshot I hear. Literally just implementing already constitutional blue state gun laws at a federal level would reduce crime in my backyard FFS. Our local criminals source their weapons from the GOP states.

Ok so let's say we implement blue state gun laws tomorrow.

How will you remove the 400 million guns in circulation?

You have to go through a similar suspension of civil rights to do so.

Are we collectively willing to give up those protections?

People say you love guns more than kids. No, I want to live in a free country, not a police state. That's why I moved here from a communist country.

You remove the guns from circulation with generous buy backs and stiff penalties for anyone found with an unregistered gun. It will take years. And it won’t get every illegal gun off the street. But it’s a start. We will be so much better off in 10-20 years if we start cleaning up our country now than just allowing the problem to keep growing.

Also, if you are a responsible legal gun owner, what the heck are you scared of? Some paperwork? You do paperwork to own a car, vote, receive mail, etc.?

I would fill out a giant stack of paperwork if it might have any chance of preventing some murders of children.

+1. Legal gun owners don't have anything to fear from sensible gun legislation. But Fox news and other right wing media fuels their paranoia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bickering is disrespectful And insensitive to the middle TN community.

Let’s have a moment here to reflect on what happened, and envelop these families in love and support.

? This isn’t a site they are reading and we are not close by. Where we are close by is the federal government. What is so insensitive?

Being respectful of families who lost loved ones in a mass shooting this week is something we should all do, regardless of what state we live in. Living in a different state than someone doesn't negate the expectation of basic human decency towards them online.

Basic human decency is we can't discuss what happened AGAIN? Respectful is ensuring that this doesn't happen to another person/child/family/teacher. Disrespectful is saying "thoughts and prayers" and "let's not get emotional now". I find your post horrifically disrespectful, like shrugging your shoulders at babies being slaughtered.

Stop with the faux outrage and political vomit. This can be politicized both ways easily, but I don't want to stoop to such a low.

Verily, families of Covenant Prebyterian would appreciate thoughts and prayers and support right now.

No. I am the OP. I have previously posted that I have:

1) Comforted a close friend who knew a child from Sandy Hook and attended their funeral
2) Hid under my desk at work due to an active shooter scare
3) A close family member happened not to shop at the Buffalo grocery store the day of that shooting.

I could go on about more issues. Heard gunshots from my house and called police (I live in a city). Have close family members who are teachers AND who are law enforcement.

It's REAL outrage and it's personal. Maybe it's not personal for you yet, but it will be because it's not ending. I literally do not understand your lack of empathy for why people are so upset, why they want (yes) political action, because yes, that is the only solution, the only way forward is to DO SOMETHING. Thoughts and prayers and nothing else is shameful. If it were my child, I'd want CHANGE, to ensure it never happened to another person.

From what I have read here, the "do something" people want to do something that will not be effective.
You talk about taking away all guns. That is just NOT going to happen. So, what do you recommend?

I've followed this entire thread and there are very few posts about taking all guns. Do not lie.

Some ideas for sensible gun ownership:

-Red flag laws at the federal level with drastic education about how and when to use them
-Mental health assessment for owning a gun
-Gun education class and test required to pass to own a gun like the Swiss do
-Raise minimum age to 21 to own a gun (yes in this case, it wouldn't help, but plenty of cases where it would)
-Anyone suddenly buying lots of guns all of a sudden triggers scrutiny, additional review. This woman was able to purchase 7 guns LEGALLY. That's ridiculous! It's also why democratic cities are overwhelmed with gun violence - majority of guns in crime are trafficked in from permissive gun law states statistically
-Anmunition cap

For starters.

What have you got other than thoughts and prayers and shrugging shoulders?

Just a few thoughts.....

I am all for red flag laws. As long as they are not abused.
Mental health screening for owning a gun? That is not going to happen. And, in the end... it would not be effective. Better for mental health professionals to report those who should not have access to firearms.
I'm good with a gun education class. Most firearms users do that. I did. Many gun shops will give free courses when a firearm is purchased. That is a good thing. The more education, the better.
How do we know this person "suddenly" purchased 7 guns. I have seen no reports of the time period in which she purchased them.
An ammunition cap would be crazy. It would mean that gun owners would spend less time practicing. You don't want that. Legal gun owners go to the range to practice so they can be responsible owners. A cap on ammunition would be defeating.

You and everyone like you is why we have mass shootings every few days. It’s you. You’re the problem.

What it would actually require to solve the problem is mass curtailment of civil rights and a police state.

Not sure how the freedom from being shot at school is a curtailment of civil rights. Seems like the other way around.

Ok, so lets say you want to end gun crime and prevent the mentally ill from shooting up schools. A laudable pursuit for sure.

To end gun crime, you have to round up guns. In order to do that you have to do the following:

1) Stop and frisk without probable cause
2) Target communities that commit crime at higher rates than others and tend not to have records for their firearms
3) Because we don't have firearms records for a sizeable number of firearms, we need door to door searches, particularly of people who are armed and are motivated to keep their firearms be they a criminal element, or those who believe they have a god given right to keep them
4) criminalized free speech in being able to distribute files for the creation of firearms via 3d printing

So now that we've broken the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments and had to create a giant police state, we have now provided the government with the powers to do the same for any other reason, and massively expanded police powers,

How do we also look at preventing school shootings

1) violate civil rights of people who have never committed a crime because we think they might commit a crime with red flag laws by seizing their property
2) forcing people to get treatment for mental illness when they haven't hurt anyone
3) institutionalizing people who haven't hurt themselves or others
4) created a massive surveillance state where people now report on others to the government

Do you want to live in a USA with a severely curtailed 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment and increased police powers?

I live in a blue city with guns freely accessed and trafficked from red states so I blame the GOP for every gunshot I hear. Literally just implementing already constitutional blue state gun laws at a federal level would reduce crime in my backyard FFS. Our local criminals source their weapons from the GOP states.

Ok so let's say we implement blue state gun laws tomorrow.

How will you remove the 400 million guns in circulation?

You have to go through a similar suspension of civil rights to do so.

Are we collectively willing to give up those protections?

People say you love guns more than kids. No, I want to live in a free country, not a police state. That's why I moved here from a communist country.

So in a free country, 400 million guns outnumber the what 78 million children in the states so every single shooter game held impromptu in a school is what, helping kids freely test their reflexes? I mean those numbers don’t lie right?

It’s a shame swallowing isn’t allowed in Communist states.

The genie is out of the box.

If you want to stop mass shootings you have to get the guns out of circulation.

How do you propose doing that? Even if we somehow stop manufacturing of new guns, the existing supply is so huge that mass shooters will be able to access them throughout our lifetimes.

Do we give up our other rights?

Your questions have been answered repeatedly, but you’d rather use vague statements about the genie being out of the bottle and comparing gun reform to communism than actually accept there are steps the US could take THAT MANY OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED by the way. Are you saying the US is too incompetent as a nation to reign in guns like other nations managed to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bickering is disrespectful And insensitive to the middle TN community.

Let’s have a moment here to reflect on what happened, and envelop these families in love and support.

? This isn’t a site they are reading and we are not close by. Where we are close by is the federal government. What is so insensitive?

Being respectful of families who lost loved ones in a mass shooting this week is something we should all do, regardless of what state we live in. Living in a different state than someone doesn't negate the expectation of basic human decency towards them online.

Basic human decency is we can't discuss what happened AGAIN? Respectful is ensuring that this doesn't happen to another person/child/family/teacher. Disrespectful is saying "thoughts and prayers" and "let's not get emotional now". I find your post horrifically disrespectful, like shrugging your shoulders at babies being slaughtered.

Stop with the faux outrage and political vomit. This can be politicized both ways easily, but I don't want to stoop to such a low.

Verily, families of Covenant Prebyterian would appreciate thoughts and prayers and support right now.

No. I am the OP. I have previously posted that I have:

1) Comforted a close friend who knew a child from Sandy Hook and attended their funeral
2) Hid under my desk at work due to an active shooter scare
3) A close family member happened not to shop at the Buffalo grocery store the day of that shooting.

I could go on about more issues. Heard gunshots from my house and called police (I live in a city). Have close family members who are teachers AND who are law enforcement.

It's REAL outrage and it's personal. Maybe it's not personal for you yet, but it will be because it's not ending. I literally do not understand your lack of empathy for why people are so upset, why they want (yes) political action, because yes, that is the only solution, the only way forward is to DO SOMETHING. Thoughts and prayers and nothing else is shameful. If it were my child, I'd want CHANGE, to ensure it never happened to another person.

From what I have read here, the "do something" people want to do something that will not be effective.
You talk about taking away all guns. That is just NOT going to happen. So, what do you recommend?

I've followed this entire thread and there are very few posts about taking all guns. Do not lie.

Some ideas for sensible gun ownership:

-Red flag laws at the federal level with drastic education about how and when to use them
-Mental health assessment for owning a gun
-Gun education class and test required to pass to own a gun like the Swiss do
-Raise minimum age to 21 to own a gun (yes in this case, it wouldn't help, but plenty of cases where it would)
-Anyone suddenly buying lots of guns all of a sudden triggers scrutiny, additional review. This woman was able to purchase 7 guns LEGALLY. That's ridiculous! It's also why democratic cities are overwhelmed with gun violence - majority of guns in crime are trafficked in from permissive gun law states statistically
-Anmunition cap

For starters.

What have you got other than thoughts and prayers and shrugging shoulders?

Just a few thoughts.....

I am all for red flag laws. As long as they are not abused.
Mental health screening for owning a gun? That is not going to happen. And, in the end... it would not be effective. Better for mental health professionals to report those who should not have access to firearms.
I'm good with a gun education class. Most firearms users do that. I did. Many gun shops will give free courses when a firearm is purchased. That is a good thing. The more education, the better.
How do we know this person "suddenly" purchased 7 guns. I have seen no reports of the time period in which she purchased them.
An ammunition cap would be crazy. It would mean that gun owners would spend less time practicing. You don't want that. Legal gun owners go to the range to practice so they can be responsible owners. A cap on ammunition would be defeating.

You and everyone like you is why we have mass shootings every few days. It’s you. You’re the problem.

What it would actually require to solve the problem is mass curtailment of civil rights and a police state.

Not sure how the freedom from being shot at school is a curtailment of civil rights. Seems like the other way around.

Ok, so lets say you want to end gun crime and prevent the mentally ill from shooting up schools. A laudable pursuit for sure.

To end gun crime, you have to round up guns. In order to do that you have to do the following:

1) Stop and frisk without probable cause
2) Target communities that commit crime at higher rates than others and tend not to have records for their firearms
3) Because we don't have firearms records for a sizeable number of firearms, we need door to door searches, particularly of people who are armed and are motivated to keep their firearms be they a criminal element, or those who believe they have a god given right to keep them
4) criminalized free speech in being able to distribute files for the creation of firearms via 3d printing

So now that we've broken the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments and had to create a giant police state, we have now provided the government with the powers to do the same for any other reason, and massively expanded police powers,

How do we also look at preventing school shootings

1) violate civil rights of people who have never committed a crime because we think they might commit a crime with red flag laws by seizing their property
2) forcing people to get treatment for mental illness when they haven't hurt anyone
3) institutionalizing people who haven't hurt themselves or others
4) created a massive surveillance state where people now report on others to the government

Do you want to live in a USA with a severely curtailed 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment and increased police powers?

I live in a blue city with guns freely accessed and trafficked from red states so I blame the GOP for every gunshot I hear. Literally just implementing already constitutional blue state gun laws at a federal level would reduce crime in my backyard FFS. Our local criminals source their weapons from the GOP states.

Ok so let's say we implement blue state gun laws tomorrow.

How will you remove the 400 million guns in circulation?

You have to go through a similar suspension of civil rights to do so.

Are we collectively willing to give up those protections?

People say you love guns more than kids. No, I want to live in a free country, not a police state. That's why I moved here from a communist country.

You remove the guns from circulation with generous buy backs and stiff penalties for anyone found with an unregistered gun. It will take years. And it won’t get every illegal gun off the street. But it’s a start. We will be so much better off in 10-20 years if we start cleaning up our country now than just allowing the problem to keep growing.

Also, if you are a responsible legal gun owner, what the heck are you scared of? Some paperwork? You do paperwork to own a car, vote, receive mail, etc.?

I would fill out a giant stack of paperwork if it might have any chance of preventing some murders of children.

I fear an intrusive government that abuses its power. Too much of that in the old country.

Having penalities won't disuade those that are looking to end their lives and take as many as they can with them.

Furthermore, I don't want to live in a country where the government can search me without reason, abuse POC, or provide an illusion of safety.

Again, there are already successful laws in blue states and these aren't police states. Sensible gun legislation is a very far cry from.communism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bickering is disrespectful And insensitive to the middle TN community.

Let’s have a moment here to reflect on what happened, and envelop these families in love and support.

? This isn’t a site they are reading and we are not close by. Where we are close by is the federal government. What is so insensitive?

Being respectful of families who lost loved ones in a mass shooting this week is something we should all do, regardless of what state we live in. Living in a different state than someone doesn't negate the expectation of basic human decency towards them online.

Basic human decency is we can't discuss what happened AGAIN? Respectful is ensuring that this doesn't happen to another person/child/family/teacher. Disrespectful is saying "thoughts and prayers" and "let's not get emotional now". I find your post horrifically disrespectful, like shrugging your shoulders at babies being slaughtered.

Stop with the faux outrage and political vomit. This can be politicized both ways easily, but I don't want to stoop to such a low.

Verily, families of Covenant Prebyterian would appreciate thoughts and prayers and support right now.

No. I am the OP. I have previously posted that I have:

1) Comforted a close friend who knew a child from Sandy Hook and attended their funeral
2) Hid under my desk at work due to an active shooter scare
3) A close family member happened not to shop at the Buffalo grocery store the day of that shooting.

I could go on about more issues. Heard gunshots from my house and called police (I live in a city). Have close family members who are teachers AND who are law enforcement.

It's REAL outrage and it's personal. Maybe it's not personal for you yet, but it will be because it's not ending. I literally do not understand your lack of empathy for why people are so upset, why they want (yes) political action, because yes, that is the only solution, the only way forward is to DO SOMETHING. Thoughts and prayers and nothing else is shameful. If it were my child, I'd want CHANGE, to ensure it never happened to another person.

From what I have read here, the "do something" people want to do something that will not be effective.
You talk about taking away all guns. That is just NOT going to happen. So, what do you recommend?

I've followed this entire thread and there are very few posts about taking all guns. Do not lie.

Some ideas for sensible gun ownership:

-Red flag laws at the federal level with drastic education about how and when to use them
-Mental health assessment for owning a gun
-Gun education class and test required to pass to own a gun like the Swiss do
-Raise minimum age to 21 to own a gun (yes in this case, it wouldn't help, but plenty of cases where it would)
-Anyone suddenly buying lots of guns all of a sudden triggers scrutiny, additional review. This woman was able to purchase 7 guns LEGALLY. That's ridiculous! It's also why democratic cities are overwhelmed with gun violence - majority of guns in crime are trafficked in from permissive gun law states statistically
-Anmunition cap

For starters.

What have you got other than thoughts and prayers and shrugging shoulders?

Just a few thoughts.....

I am all for red flag laws. As long as they are not abused.
Mental health screening for owning a gun? That is not going to happen. And, in the end... it would not be effective. Better for mental health professionals to report those who should not have access to firearms.
I'm good with a gun education class. Most firearms users do that. I did. Many gun shops will give free courses when a firearm is purchased. That is a good thing. The more education, the better.
How do we know this person "suddenly" purchased 7 guns. I have seen no reports of the time period in which she purchased them.
An ammunition cap would be crazy. It would mean that gun owners would spend less time practicing. You don't want that. Legal gun owners go to the range to practice so they can be responsible owners. A cap on ammunition would be defeating.

You and everyone like you is why we have mass shootings every few days. It’s you. You’re the problem.

What it would actually require to solve the problem is mass curtailment of civil rights and a police state.

Not sure how the freedom from being shot at school is a curtailment of civil rights. Seems like the other way around.

Ok, so lets say you want to end gun crime and prevent the mentally ill from shooting up schools. A laudable pursuit for sure.

To end gun crime, you have to round up guns. In order to do that you have to do the following:

1) Stop and frisk without probable cause
2) Target communities that commit crime at higher rates than others and tend not to have records for their firearms
3) Because we don't have firearms records for a sizeable number of firearms, we need door to door searches, particularly of people who are armed and are motivated to keep their firearms be they a criminal element, or those who believe they have a god given right to keep them
4) criminalized free speech in being able to distribute files for the creation of firearms via 3d printing

So now that we've broken the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments and had to create a giant police state, we have now provided the government with the powers to do the same for any other reason, and massively expanded police powers,

How do we also look at preventing school shootings

1) violate civil rights of people who have never committed a crime because we think they might commit a crime with red flag laws by seizing their property
2) forcing people to get treatment for mental illness when they haven't hurt anyone
3) institutionalizing people who haven't hurt themselves or others
4) created a massive surveillance state where people now report on others to the government

Do you want to live in a USA with a severely curtailed 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment and increased police powers?

I live in a blue city with guns freely accessed and trafficked from red states so I blame the GOP for every gunshot I hear. Literally just implementing already constitutional blue state gun laws at a federal level would reduce crime in my backyard FFS. Our local criminals source their weapons from the GOP states.

Ok so let's say we implement blue state gun laws tomorrow.

How will you remove the 400 million guns in circulation?

You have to go through a similar suspension of civil rights to do so.

Are we collectively willing to give up those protections?

People say you love guns more than kids. No, I want to live in a free country, not a police state. That's why I moved here from a communist country.

You remove the guns from circulation with generous buy backs and stiff penalties for anyone found with an unregistered gun. It will take years. And it won’t get every illegal gun off the street. But it’s a start. We will be so much better off in 10-20 years if we start cleaning up our country now than just allowing the problem to keep growing.

Also, if you are a responsible legal gun owner, what the heck are you scared of? Some paperwork? You do paperwork to own a car, vote, receive mail, etc.?

I would fill out a giant stack of paperwork if it might have any chance of preventing some murders of children.

I fear an intrusive government that abuses its power. Too much of that in the old country.

Having penalities won't disuade those that are looking to end their lives and take as many as they can with them.

Furthermore, I don't want to live in a country where the government can search me without reason, abuse POC, or provide an illusion of safety.

So are all the other countries like Australia, UK. Switzerland, police states?