TJ PTSA vs VA PTA drama

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Anonymous wrote:Tell that to the public school Asians who are being denied accelerated math classes because of Democrats at the state DOE and the county Democrats who followed them.

If I could find such a student I would tell them. Unfortunately there are none.

I could name ten right now. That's just from one elementary school. Stone Hill has at least 30 such kids.
And these are just the ones denied algebra that they would have been without the state DOE and VMPI, that got LCPS to go adopt early.
There are hundreds more who will be getting algebra in 8th rather than 7th.

Liar.

VDOE did NOT tell school districts that they can’t offer advanced classes or acceleration.

He is relying on what he read that FoxNews picked up on coming out of LCPS: https://www.foxnews.com/us/virginia-accelerated-math-courses-equity

He's relying on reality. We all saw this play out in real time.

Some weren't paying attention and others were yelling deflections and got the big thread deleted (that was a good way to obscure what happened, when, and in what order). Which were you?

I think the Republican nut jobs making up lies got the thread deleted because it showed that they were blatantly lying.

Um . . . unlike all the unnamed sources CNN and MSNBC use, the article actually quoted a person that attended the meeting firsthand. Had he not brought light to the issue, it wouldn't have been dropped.:

Loudoun County school board member Ian Serotkin posted about the change via Facebook on Tuesday. According to Serotkin, he learned of the change the night prior during a briefing from staff on the Virginia Mathematics Pathway Initiative (VMPI).

"[A]s currently planned, this initiative will eliminate ALL math acceleration prior to 11th grade," he said. "That is not an exaggeration, nor does there appear to be any discretion in how local districts implement this. All 6th graders will take Foundational Concepts 6. All 7th graders will take Foundational Concepts 7. All 10th graders will take Essential Concepts 10. Only in 11th and 12th grade is there any opportunity for choice in higher math courses."

Looks like Ian got it wrong - was he lying or just a moron.

VMPI hasn't even put out a draft yet - even today. Maybe if FoxNews had done some fact-checking they wouldn't put out such blatant lies.

You are both an idiot and suffering badly from TDS. This topic was beaten to death on this forum. VDOE changed their website to "clarify" after the backlash. Please see the following:


If you had read the thread, you would have seen that is not the case.
The thread was months old, and at the time the title was in line with the facts of the time. In late April, VMPI changed their tune, in response to backlash generated partly by the thread here at DCUM.
Definition of advanced math is subjective. The person who complained to you I suspect is the person who kept posting in defense of VMPI and claiming others were spreading misinformation. All of his or her complaints were answered in the thread.

Here is the original version of VMPI's website.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210227213027/https:/...n/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml
That was then changed to the current version which is similar but added all the clarifications:
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml

Before in their videos, they said they wished to eliminate tracking. When teachers were polled in one webinar, and they were against it, one VMPI person said, 'We still have a lot of work to do.'
VMPI's Tina Mazzacane was asked specifically about if VMPI intends to eliminate tracking; her response was posted in the thread:

The Virginia Mathematics Pathways Initiative proposals support the vision that all students are capable of making sense of and persevering in solving challenging mathematics problems and should be expected to do so. Many more students, regardless of gender, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status, need to be given the support, confidence, and opportunities to reach much higher levels of mathematical success and interest. VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated.

When VMPI started giving statements that you can have honors classes and acceleration, Tina added the lie that this has always been the case.
This is clearly not true given their prior statements.

On top of that, there is the issue of what individual school districts did in response after talking to the state officials. The thread included examples from around the state, but in LCPS, they have already taken away advanced math because of VMPI. Your complainant says it is unrelated, but here is the video explains the changes, and they said it was in response to VMPI. The LCPS link to the video labels it 'VMPI introduction'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrwdWwpB4w

About 50 kids have had algebra in 6th grade taken away, which of course propagates down the line to taking away an advanced class in high school. Many more kids have lost the chance to take algebra in 7th grade, limiting them to calculus by 12th grade. More advanced classes have been taken away.

All of this was explained in the thread you deleted and more.
Even if we take their claims of no tracking will be allowed to be true, there is still advanced math being taken away, and this was explained in the thread as well.
You were the one who was given a misrepresentation of reality. I don't fault you for not reading 90 pages of posts to get the facts, but I'm surprised you took down the thread. The person must have been complaining for some time. I saw threats to contact the site administrator months ago.

At best, you are disconnected from reality. At worst, a nasty liar.

I didn't ask Jeff to delete the thread. Feel free to go and ask him - again. He explained why he deleted on website feedback.

The long thread was titled "Virginia Department of Education banning advanced math" which was never true. People wildly speculated without facts.

Anything LCPS did wasn't based on VMPI recommendations because the draft doesn't even come out until next year.

It's always a huge problem on this site when folks start threads that have titles that are just blatantly false.

The biggest offender right now is "TJ has always been inclusive and collegial". Collegial, yes, but inclusive, definitely not.

And this PTSA is determined to return TJ to the dark ages by creating a false choice between solving representation issues at TJ and solving inequity issues in "the pipeline".

"And this PTSA is determined to return TJ to the dark ages by creating a false choice between solving representation issues at TJ and solving inequity issues in "the pipeline"."

"Solving representation issues' = seeing things through a racial lens, advocating for quotas, arriving at conclusions without analyzing facts.

"solving inequity issues in the pipeline" = Addresses root cause issues that the 'dark ages' identifies with a race-blind test, analyzing facts with accurate data, and advocates for uplifting those from other communities, instead of tearing others down.

Important note: TJ admissions reform does NOTHING to address pipeline issues.

Even if the bolded were true (which it isn't - having something concrete to aspire to improves outcomes just like it has for generations in wealthier NoVa communities), it completely misses the point.

The point is that to put the two issues (admissions and pipeline) at odds with each other is a false choice. Do both things.

Every advocate for TJ admissions reform is also advocating simultaneously for increased investment in schools that are located in poorer parts of the county at earlier levels, and they're doing it because they believe that there are significant inequities in the resources that those children have access to.

Most advocates for the previous TJ status quo advocate for "fixing the pipeline" (while simultaneously threatening to vote for Republicans, which makes NO sense) only as a matter of convenience to kick the can down the road while their child remains unaffected by any proposed changes in the educational landscape.

It is an argument in bad faith.

No need to fix the pipeline if you lower the bar such that no one needs the unavailable resources you are alluding to.

It's not lowering the bar - it's putting up a different bar that you happen to like less because it doesn't serve your ability to use your resources to hoard opportunities for your kids.

Racist dog whistle anyone?! Doesn’t explain the increase in white enrollment or the merit lottery projections that would have made TJ a white plurality.

To what racist dog whistle are you referring?

The increase in white enrollment can be mostly attributed to the increase in white applications. There were much higher increases in terms of raw numbers and percentage points among Black and Hispanic student groups.

When you are referring to 'resource hoarders,' who are you talking about?! It's the Asian community. I am glad you cited the increase in Black & Hispanic students, but they are not the real reason for admission reform, they were used as the pretext for a hit on the Asian community to benefit Whites. One will note, that the pipeline to improve the education for Black & Hispanic has not changed, it is still subpar, but well-resourced White families are now better off.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell that to the public school Asians who are being denied accelerated math classes because of Democrats at the state DOE and the county Democrats who followed them.

If I could find such a student I would tell them. Unfortunately there are none.

I could name ten right now. That's just from one elementary school. Stone Hill has at least 30 such kids.
And these are just the ones denied algebra that they would have been without the state DOE and VMPI, that got LCPS to go adopt early.
There are hundreds more who will be getting algebra in 8th rather than 7th.

Liar.

VDOE did NOT tell school districts that they can’t offer advanced classes or acceleration.

He is relying on what he read that FoxNews picked up on coming out of LCPS: https://www.foxnews.com/us/virginia-accelerated-math-courses-equity

He's relying on reality. We all saw this play out in real time.

Some weren't paying attention and others were yelling deflections and got the big thread deleted (that was a good way to obscure what happened, when, and in what order). Which were you?

I think the Republican nut jobs making up lies got the thread deleted because it showed that they were blatantly lying.

Um . . . unlike all the unnamed sources CNN and MSNBC use, the article actually quoted a person that attended the meeting firsthand. Had he not brought light to the issue, it wouldn't have been dropped.:

Loudoun County school board member Ian Serotkin posted about the change via Facebook on Tuesday. According to Serotkin, he learned of the change the night prior during a briefing from staff on the Virginia Mathematics Pathway Initiative (VMPI).

"[A]s currently planned, this initiative will eliminate ALL math acceleration prior to 11th grade," he said. "That is not an exaggeration, nor does there appear to be any discretion in how local districts implement this. All 6th graders will take Foundational Concepts 6. All 7th graders will take Foundational Concepts 7. All 10th graders will take Essential Concepts 10. Only in 11th and 12th grade is there any opportunity for choice in higher math courses."

Looks like Ian got it wrong - was he lying or just a moron.

VMPI hasn't even put out a draft yet - even today. Maybe if FoxNews had done some fact-checking they wouldn't put out such blatant lies.

You are both an idiot and suffering badly from TDS. This topic was beaten to death on this forum. VDOE changed their website to "clarify" after the backlash. Please see the following:


If you had read the thread, you would have seen that is not the case.
The thread was months old, and at the time the title was in line with the facts of the time. In late April, VMPI changed their tune, in response to backlash generated partly by the thread here at DCUM.
Definition of advanced math is subjective. The person who complained to you I suspect is the person who kept posting in defense of VMPI and claiming others were spreading misinformation. All of his or her complaints were answered in the thread.

Here is the original version of VMPI's website.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210227213027/https:/...n/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml
That was then changed to the current version which is similar but added all the clarifications:
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml

Before in their videos, they said they wished to eliminate tracking. When teachers were polled in one webinar, and they were against it, one VMPI person said, 'We still have a lot of work to do.'
VMPI's Tina Mazzacane was asked specifically about if VMPI intends to eliminate tracking; her response was posted in the thread:

The Virginia Mathematics Pathways Initiative proposals support the vision that all students are capable of making sense of and persevering in solving challenging mathematics problems and should be expected to do so. Many more students, regardless of gender, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status, need to be given the support, confidence, and opportunities to reach much higher levels of mathematical success and interest. VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated.

When VMPI started giving statements that you can have honors classes and acceleration, Tina added the lie that this has always been the case.
This is clearly not true given their prior statements.

On top of that, there is the issue of what individual school districts did in response after talking to the state officials. The thread included examples from around the state, but in LCPS, they have already taken away advanced math because of VMPI. Your complainant says it is unrelated, but here is the video explains the changes, and they said it was in response to VMPI. The LCPS link to the video labels it 'VMPI introduction'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrwdWwpB4w

About 50 kids have had algebra in 6th grade taken away, which of course propagates down the line to taking away an advanced class in high school. Many more kids have lost the chance to take algebra in 7th grade, limiting them to calculus by 12th grade. More advanced classes have been taken away.

All of this was explained in the thread you deleted and more.
Even if we take their claims of no tracking will be allowed to be true, there is still advanced math being taken away, and this was explained in the thread as well.
You were the one who was given a misrepresentation of reality. I don't fault you for not reading 90 pages of posts to get the facts, but I'm surprised you took down the thread. The person must have been complaining for some time. I saw threats to contact the site administrator months ago.

At best, you are disconnected from reality. At worst, a nasty liar.

I didn't ask Jeff to delete the thread. Feel free to go and ask him - again. He explained why he deleted on website feedback.

The long thread was titled "Virginia Department of Education banning advanced math" which was never true. People wildly speculated without facts.

Anything LCPS did wasn't based on VMPI recommendations because the draft doesn't even come out until next year.

It's always a huge problem on this site when folks start threads that have titles that are just blatantly false.

The biggest offender right now is "TJ has always been inclusive and collegial". Collegial, yes, but inclusive, definitely not.

And this PTSA is determined to return TJ to the dark ages by creating a false choice between solving representation issues at TJ and solving inequity issues in "the pipeline".

"And this PTSA is determined to return TJ to the dark ages by creating a false choice between solving representation issues at TJ and solving inequity issues in "the pipeline"."

"Solving representation issues' = seeing things through a racial lens, advocating for quotas, arriving at conclusions without analyzing facts.

"solving inequity issues in the pipeline" = Addresses root cause issues that the 'dark ages' identifies with a race-blind test, analyzing facts with accurate data, and advocates for uplifting those from other communities, instead of tearing others down.

Important note: TJ admissions reform does NOTHING to address pipeline issues.

Even if the bolded were true (which it isn't - having something concrete to aspire to improves outcomes just like it has for generations in wealthier NoVa communities), it completely misses the point.

The point is that to put the two issues (admissions and pipeline) at odds with each other is a false choice. Do both things.

Every advocate for TJ admissions reform is also advocating simultaneously for increased investment in schools that are located in poorer parts of the county at earlier levels, and they're doing it because they believe that there are significant inequities in the resources that those children have access to.

Most advocates for the previous TJ status quo advocate for "fixing the pipeline" (while simultaneously threatening to vote for Republicans, which makes NO sense) only as a matter of convenience to kick the can down the road while their child remains unaffected by any proposed changes in the educational landscape.

It is an argument in bad faith.

No need to fix the pipeline if you lower the bar such that no one needs the unavailable resources you are alluding to.

It's not lowering the bar - it's putting up a different bar that you happen to like less because it doesn't serve your ability to use your resources to hoard opportunities for your kids.

Racist dog whistle anyone?! Doesn’t explain the increase in white enrollment or the merit lottery projections that would have made TJ a white plurality.

To what racist dog whistle are you referring?

The increase in white enrollment can be mostly attributed to the increase in white applications. There were much higher increases in terms of raw numbers and percentage points among Black and Hispanic student groups.

When you are referring to 'resource hoarders,' who are you talking about?! It's the Asian community. I am glad you cited the increase in Black & Hispanic students, but they are not the real reason for admission reform, they were used as the pretext for a hit on the Asian community to benefit Whites. One will note, that the pipeline to improve the education for Black & Hispanic has not changed, it is still subpar, but well-resourced White families are now better off.

Nope. It's wealthy folks who engage in resource hoarding - that's the literal definition of the term.

It is going to take years before you can make any assertion to that end - and my guess is you have no way of knowing what will happen in those communities anyway.