Good safety schools for those who like W&M?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is somewhat unusual as it has a LAC feel, it’s a State school and it is well ranked. Matching that will be hard as LACs are private. If you have the stats to get into W&M you will probably need those to get aid at a private. Tough choices. And W&M just got more expensive also.

Not in-state. W&M has kept the same tuition, fees, room and board for incoming in-state students the same for at least the past 4 years. And they have a policy where your tuition and fees are guaranteed not to rise from your incoming rate. It is already the most expensive in-state public (though some specific programs at UVA are about the same) but it's been holding its costs steady for awhile now.

Since I just finished paying for it I can tell you it’s expensive. They held it for us but for incoming students? Not an inexpensive school. VTech wins that award.

But that's what I'm saying--incoming students have been paying the same tuition & fees since incoming students in 2018: https://www.wm.edu/admission/financialaid/tuition/index.php
I know because I pay it too! Definitely not cheap, but it didn't just get more expensive (at least not in-state--I don't track OOS).

The Business school at W&M also another $5000 per year. 3 years.

3 years or 2 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

I would.

Then you need to support your statement with some evidence.

DP: Average HS GPA at URichmond is 3.81 and at W&M 4.27---which is reflected also in W&M having more than 2x as many students come from the top 10% of their class. AND W&M have slightly higher SATs across categories. So for some kids who have high SAT scores and good but not quite as high grades, U Richmond would be easier to get into. But I wouldn't consider it a safety school at all. Just a more reasonable target for someone who W&M is more of a reach target on the basis of their grades.

You forget that U of R has far more students coming from private schools than W&M. Privates don’t weight grades for the GPA. Hence, the lower average GPA. Also, privates don’t rank their students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

I would.

Then you need to support your statement with some evidence.

DP: Average HS GPA at URichmond is 3.81 and at W&M 4.27---which is reflected also in W&M having more than 2x as many students come from the top 10% of their class. AND W&M have slightly higher SATs across categories. So for some kids who have high SAT scores and good but not quite as high grades, U Richmond would be easier to get into. But I wouldn't consider it a safety school at all. Just a more reasonable target for someone who W&M is more of a reach target on the basis of their grades.

You forget that U of R has far more students coming from private schools than W&M. Privates don’t weight grades for the GPA. Hence, the lower average GPA. Also, privates don’t rank their students.

FCPS doesn't rank either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

I would.

Then you need to support your statement with some evidence.

DP: Average HS GPA at URichmond is 3.81 and at W&M 4.27---which is reflected also in W&M having more than 2x as many students come from the top 10% of their class. AND W&M have slightly higher SATs across categories. So for some kids who have high SAT scores and good but not quite as high grades, U Richmond would be easier to get into. But I wouldn't consider it a safety school at all. Just a more reasonable target for someone who W&M is more of a reach target on the basis of their grades.

You forget that U of R has far more students coming from private schools than W&M. Privates don’t weight grades for the GPA. Hence, the lower average GPA. Also, privates don’t rank their students.

FCPS doesn't rank either.

Arlington doesn’t rank either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

I would.

Then you need to support your statement with some evidence.

DP: Average HS GPA at URichmond is 3.81 and at W&M 4.27---which is reflected also in W&M having more than 2x as many students come from the top 10% of their class. AND W&M have slightly higher SATs across categories. So for some kids who have high SAT scores and good but not quite as high grades, U Richmond would be easier to get into. But I wouldn't consider it a safety school at all. Just a more reasonable target for someone who W&M is more of a reach target on the basis of their grades.

You forget that U of R has far more students coming from private schools than W&M. Privates don’t weight grades for the GPA. Hence, the lower average GPA. Also, privates don’t rank their students.

FCPS doesn't rank either.

Both schools report it as calculated from "among those schools that rank" so it doesn't really matter how many of the applicants are from schools that report rank--among the high schools that report rank, 77% of W&M students are and 64% of students from URichmond are. (I was the one who earlier said 2x as many--so I was way off--my apologies!). So not a huge difference, but reflects the overall pattern of slightly lower GPA, slightly lower SATs at UR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DS really liked W&M and is also struggling to find safeties he likes. He’s visited several potential safeties but has been disappointed. I know safeties are important so he’s continuing to look. He also likes some selective LACs. We are OOS so not necessarily interested in other VA schools.

Having gone through this with my DD, I would suggest a process rather than specific schools:

1) I would try to find out more about what he liked about W&M--as it's a quite unusual place (I know my DD liked: Strong liberal arts focus and feel, but 6000 students so feels bigger; as one of the oldest schools in the country deep historic tradition and feel to the campus; students are intellectually curious not just pre-professionally focused; lots of opportunities for student research on important seeming grants). This will help you know what he likes.

2) I would pick apart what he found disappointing about safety options. This will help you know what he doesn't like.

3) Identify safeties that have as many features of the things he liked about W&M as possible. For my DD this went the direction of small liberal arts colleges that were less selective. But I could see it for someone else who liked W&M, it going the direction of that mid-sized feel, so safeties might be regional public universities with a liberal arts core.

This is basically what we have done. I think the problem is that there is a big difference between the liberal arts colleges that are safeties and ones that are matches/reaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNU all the way! (Huge fan...so happy there is a ‘new kid in town’ since I went to public university in VA from NoVa.. lots of demand for good in state options!)

IME kids who love W&M really don't like CNU. Not sure why.

Totally different places IME. W&M: old, historic, character, very selective. CNU: New, clean, and less selective. Just very different vibes at each of these schools.

[Anonymous]

2546/5527 men were admitted for Fall 2020 entry, that’s like 46% admit rate for males, 595 enrolled. His chances might be pretty good especially if he does ED1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

I would.

Then you need to support your statement with some evidence.

DP: Average HS GPA at URichmond is 3.81 and at W&M 4.27---which is reflected also in W&M having more than 2x as many students come from the top 10% of their class. AND W&M have slightly higher SATs across categories. So for some kids who have high SAT scores and good but not quite as high grades, U Richmond would be easier to get into. But I wouldn't consider it a safety school at all. Just a more reasonable target for someone who W&M is more of a reach target on the basis of their grades.

You forget that U of R has far more students coming from private schools than W&M. Privates don’t weight grades for the GPA. Hence, the lower average GPA. Also, privates don’t rank their students.

FCPS doesn't rank either.

Both schools report it as calculated from "among those schools that rank" so it doesn't really matter how many of the applicants are from schools that report rank--among the high schools that report rank, 77% of W&M students are and 64% of students from URichmond are. (I was the one who earlier said 2x as many--so I was way off--my apologies!). So not a huge difference, but reflects the overall pattern of slightly lower GPA, slightly lower SATs at UR.

It looks like you are off again. For Fall 2020, it was 50% in the top 10% at UR (with 20.5% with a rank) vs. 77% in top 10% at W&M (out of 36% with a rank).

[Anonymous]

No matter what the folks on DCUM say about W&M from 20+ years ago, today it is one the rise snd more selective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

I would.

Then you need to support your statement with some evidence.

DP: Average HS GPA at URichmond is 3.81 and at W&M 4.27---which is reflected also in W&M having more than 2x as many students come from the top 10% of their class. AND W&M have slightly higher SATs across categories. So for some kids who have high SAT scores and good but not quite as high grades, U Richmond would be easier to get into. But I wouldn't consider it a safety school at all. Just a more reasonable target for someone who W&M is more of a reach target on the basis of their grades.

You forget that U of R has far more students coming from private schools than W&M. Privates don’t weight grades for the GPA. Hence, the lower average GPA. Also, privates don’t rank their students.

FCPS doesn't rank either.

Both schools report it as calculated from "among those schools that rank" so it doesn't really matter how many of the applicants are from schools that report rank--among the high schools that report rank, 77% of W&M students are and 64% of students from URichmond are. (I was the one who earlier said 2x as many--so I was way off--my apologies!). So not a huge difference, but reflects the overall pattern of slightly lower GPA, slightly lower SATs at UR.

It looks like you are off again. For Fall 2020, it was 50% in the top 10% at UR (with 20.5% with a rank) vs. 77% in top 10% at W&M (out of 36% with a rank).

Geez! I vow to not report numbers when posting on my phone again (esp. while waiting for DCs tournaments to end where other numbers are being shouted everywhere).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From most recent CDS:

U of R:
SAT Composite 1290 1440
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 630 710
SAT Math 650 750
ACT Composite 30 33

W&M:

SAT Composite 1300 1490
SAT Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing 660 740
SAT Math 640 750
ACT Composite 30 34

I don't believe that Richmond is in a "lower category" than W&M and I would certainly not consider it to be a safety school.

I would.

Then you need to support your statement with some evidence.

DP: Average HS GPA at URichmond is 3.81 and at W&M 4.27---which is reflected also in W&M having more than 2x as many students come from the top 10% of their class. AND W&M have slightly higher SATs across categories. So for some kids who have high SAT scores and good but not quite as high grades, U Richmond would be easier to get into. But I wouldn't consider it a safety school at all. Just a more reasonable target for someone who W&M is more of a reach target on the basis of their grades.

You forget that U of R has far more students coming from private schools than W&M. Privates don’t weight grades for the GPA. Hence, the lower average GPA. Also, privates don’t rank their students.

FCPS doesn't rank either.

Both schools report it as calculated from "among those schools that rank" so it doesn't really matter how many of the applicants are from schools that report rank--among the high schools that report rank, 77% of W&M students are and 64% of students from URichmond are. (I was the one who earlier said 2x as many--so I was way off--my apologies!). So not a huge difference, but reflects the overall pattern of slightly lower GPA, slightly lower SATs at UR.

It looks like you are off again. For Fall 2020, it was 50% in the top 10% at UR (with 20.5% with a rank) vs. 77% in top 10% at W&M (out of 36% with a rank).

Geez! I vow to not report numbers when posting on my phone again (esp. while waiting for DCs tournaments to end where other numbers are being shouted everywhere).

I wasn't being critical. I was just conveying the right numbers.

[Anonymous]

Very interested thread. After visiting many state schools this summer our DS is strongly favoring W&M. With a 3.8 UW, 1500+ SAT and some decent EC’s he’s wondering if he should apply ED to improve chances of being admitted. We feel he should give other schools consideration in case he gets merit aid - any thoughts? Safeties to consider? DS is interested in foreign relations and government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No matter what the folks on DCUM say about W&M from 20+ years ago, today it is one the rise snd more selective.

It was better in those regards 30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Interesting*