Daycare now requiring masks for 2 year olds- ok to ask for deposit back?

[Anonymous]

And everybody here focusing on masks. Do you really think your kids are staying 6 feet away from all the other kids? Come on now, use a little common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county mandated masks and you're pissed off at the daycare.

Have fun with that.

Again, the county could not mandate this, some of you seem to be deliberately obtuse. Either the daycare did not understand/failed to ask critical questions about the county’s authority OR is straight up lying to the parents about their reason for reversing course. With cases and mask usage both trending downward, it is strange for a daycare to suddenly start requiring them if they haven’t all along. So OP’s choice is to wait it out for a bit or eat the deposit and find a new daycare.

Yes, they can shut a child care provider or other establishment down if they are not in compliance with regulations approved by the Board of Health (the County Council sits as the Board of Health).

"each county board of health may adopt and enforce rules and regulations on any nuisance or cause of disease in the county."
https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Document/N7CD3CB80A64911DBB5DDAC3692B918BC?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Someone ratted out the provider and now they have to comply or get shut down.

Comply with what? Do you even understand the county’s current orders? I realize things are evolving fast but do try to keep up.

Yes, I do understand them. You don't, and I get that because it's not super straightforward.

Can you link to the actual regulation? And how many daycares has the DOH actually shut down over this? Are they just targeting the centers? I ask because we have looked at a number of in-home daycares lately for my infant- none require masks on the kids, none had inspection violations related to masks. Obviously, it does not affect my infant right now but I'd like to know if they are liable to being shut down over mask violations.

DP. The mask requirements and guidance for young kids have always been vague. The CDC and the Maryland Division of Early Childhood have always included caveats regarding mask usage- namely, that kids shouldn't wear masks if they are not developmentally or physically able to wear them safely and appropriately. The MoCo health orders and related guidance don't get into these details, but effectively they've incorporated them by reference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And everybody here focusing on masks. Do you really think your kids are staying 6 feet away from all the other kids? Come on now, use a little common sense.

Do any child care facilities even claim that they do? My kid goes to a preschool program run by the county, and even they are quite clear that they cannot maintain physical distancing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county mandated masks and you're pissed off at the daycare.

Have fun with that.

Again, the county could not mandate this, some of you seem to be deliberately obtuse. Either the daycare did not understand/failed to ask critical questions about the county’s authority OR is straight up lying to the parents about their reason for reversing course. With cases and mask usage both trending downward, it is strange for a daycare to suddenly start requiring them if they haven’t all along. So OP’s choice is to wait it out for a bit or eat the deposit and find a new daycare.

Yes, they can shut a child care provider or other establishment down if they are not in compliance with regulations approved by the Board of Health (the County Council sits as the Board of Health).

"each county board of health may adopt and enforce rules and regulations on any nuisance or cause of disease in the county."
https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Document/N7CD3CB80A64911DBB5DDAC3692B918BC?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Someone ratted out the provider and now they have to comply or get shut down.

Comply with what? Do you even understand the county’s current orders? I realize things are evolving fast but do try to keep up.

Yes, I do understand them. You don't, and I get that because it's not super straightforward.

Can you link to the actual regulation? And how many daycares has the DOH actually shut down over this? Are they just targeting the centers? I ask because we have looked at a number of in-home daycares lately for my infant- none require masks on the kids, none had inspection violations related to masks. Obviously, it does not affect my infant right now but I'd like to know if they are liable to being shut down over mask violations.

DP. The mask requirements and guidance for young kids have always been vague. The CDC and the Maryland Division of Early Childhood have always included caveats regarding mask usage- namely, that kids shouldn't wear masks if they are not developmentally or physically able to wear them safely and appropriately. The MoCo health orders and related guidance don't get into these details, but effectively they've incorporated them by reference.

So if they're that vague, upon what basis could the DOH shut a daycare down over this? Just trying to understand, sorry new parent......!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry folks, Montgomery County will be following the state in no time and no masks will be “required” anymore for under 5.

Keep masking your kids folks! Hey you could even take them to a full capacity bar with you, just keep them masked!

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

+1 I want to scream

Since the CDC guidance is 2 and up MoCo is not letting up on masking for preschoolers.

WTF.

9 more days and the mask requirements go away. There are no state requirements for masks at preschools or daycares.

No, they don't go away, I'm sorry. It pisses me off too. The amended county order says the county is revertint to state OR CDC guidance, whichever is stricter. The CDC guidance clearly calls for masks in child care for anyone 2 and up that can wear a mask. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/guidance-for-childcare.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry folks, Montgomery County will be following the state in no time and no masks will be “required” anymore for under 5.

Keep masking your kids folks! Hey you could even take them to a full capacity bar with you, just keep them masked!

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

+1 I want to scream

Since the CDC guidance is 2 and up MoCo is not letting up on masking for preschoolers.

WTF.

9 more days and the mask requirements go away. There are no state requirements for masks at preschools or daycares.

No, they don't go away, I'm sorry. It pisses me off too. The amended county order says the county is revertint to state OR CDC guidance, whichever is stricter. The CDC guidance clearly calls for masks in child care for anyone 2 and up that can wear a mask. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/guidance-for-childcare.html

Why is everybody so invested in keeping up the charade of two, three and even four-year-olds being able to safely wear a mask? They are constantly touching them, getting them dirty and they cannot properly wear one for an entire day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county mandated masks and you're pissed off at the daycare.

Have fun with that.

Again, the county could not mandate this, some of you seem to be deliberately obtuse. Either the daycare did not understand/failed to ask critical questions about the county’s authority OR is straight up lying to the parents about their reason for reversing course. With cases and mask usage both trending downward, it is strange for a daycare to suddenly start requiring them if they haven’t all along. So OP’s choice is to wait it out for a bit or eat the deposit and find a new daycare.

Yes, they can shut a child care provider or other establishment down if they are not in compliance with regulations approved by the Board of Health (the County Council sits as the Board of Health).

"each county board of health may adopt and enforce rules and regulations on any nuisance or cause of disease in the county."
https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Document/N7CD3CB80A64911DBB5DDAC3692B918BC?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Someone ratted out the provider and now they have to comply or get shut down.

Comply with what? Do you even understand the county’s current orders? I realize things are evolving fast but do try to keep up.

Yes, I do understand them. You don't, and I get that because it's not super straightforward.

Can you link to the actual regulation? And how many daycares has the DOH actually shut down over this? Are they just targeting the centers? I ask because we have looked at a number of in-home daycares lately for my infant- none require masks on the kids, none had inspection violations related to masks. Obviously, it does not affect my infant right now but I'd like to know if they are liable to being shut down over mask violations.

DP. The mask requirements and guidance for young kids have always been vague. The CDC and the Maryland Division of Early Childhood have always included caveats regarding mask usage- namely, that kids shouldn't wear masks if they are not developmentally or physically able to wear them safely and appropriately. The MoCo health orders and related guidance don't get into these details, but effectively they've incorporated them by reference.

So if they're that vague, upon what basis could the DOH shut a daycare down over this? Just trying to understand, sorry new parent......!

They aren't vague, they just rely on references to other rules (state or CDC). MoCo summarizes what rules apply on its website for the non lawyers. https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

Now you are welcome to search for a provider that chooses not to follow those rules, but the rules do exist and DHHS (there is not DOH) can use its authority to shut them down. Most likely they will get a warning and do what OPs daycare did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry folks, Montgomery County will be following the state in no time and no masks will be “required” anymore for under 5.

Keep masking your kids folks! Hey you could even take them to a full capacity bar with you, just keep them masked!

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

+1 I want to scream

Since the CDC guidance is 2 and up MoCo is not letting up on masking for preschoolers.

WTF.

9 more days and the mask requirements go away. There are no state requirements for masks at preschools or daycares.

No, they don't go away, I'm sorry. It pisses me off too. The amended county order says the county is revertint to state OR CDC guidance, whichever is stricter. The CDC guidance clearly calls for masks in child care for anyone 2 and up that can wear a mask. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/guidance-for-childcare.html

Why is everybody so invested in keeping up the charade of two, three and even four-year-olds being able to safely wear a mask? They are constantly touching them, getting them dirty and they cannot properly wear one for an entire day.

Who is "everybody"? I want the maskandate for young children gone. Take it up with the CDC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And everybody here focusing on masks. Do you really think your kids are staying 6 feet away from all the other kids? Come on now, use a little common sense.

Do any child care facilities even claim that they do? My kid goes to a preschool program run by the county, and even they are quite clear that they cannot maintain physical distancing.

Because people are picking and choosing “safety” measures to focus on like Bible thumpers picking and choosing Bible verses that suit their agendas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And everybody here focusing on masks. Do you really think your kids are staying 6 feet away from all the other kids? Come on now, use a little common sense.

No, of course they don’t. That’s s given. And BECAUSE that’s a given, people focus on masks because it’s one of the few somewhat controllable factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county mandated masks and you're pissed off at the daycare.

Have fun with that.

Again, the county could not mandate this, some of you seem to be deliberately obtuse. Either the daycare did not understand/failed to ask critical questions about the county’s authority OR is straight up lying to the parents about their reason for reversing course. With cases and mask usage both trending downward, it is strange for a daycare to suddenly start requiring them if they haven’t all along. So OP’s choice is to wait it out for a bit or eat the deposit and find a new daycare.

Yes, they can shut a child care provider or other establishment down if they are not in compliance with regulations approved by the Board of Health (the County Council sits as the Board of Health).

"each county board of health may adopt and enforce rules and regulations on any nuisance or cause of disease in the county."
https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Document/N7CD3CB80A64911DBB5DDAC3692B918BC?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Someone ratted out the provider and now they have to comply or get shut down.

Comply with what? Do you even understand the county’s current orders? I realize things are evolving fast but do try to keep up.

Yes, I do understand them. You don't, and I get that because it's not super straightforward.

Can you link to the actual regulation? And how many daycares has the DOH actually shut down over this? Are they just targeting the centers? I ask because we have looked at a number of in-home daycares lately for my infant- none require masks on the kids, none had inspection violations related to masks. Obviously, it does not affect my infant right now but I'd like to know if they are liable to being shut down over mask violations.

DP. The mask requirements and guidance for young kids have always been vague. The CDC and the Maryland Division of Early Childhood have always included caveats regarding mask usage- namely, that kids shouldn't wear masks if they are not developmentally or physically able to wear them safely and appropriately. The MoCo health orders and related guidance don't get into these details, but effectively they've incorporated them by reference.

So if they're that vague, upon what basis could the DOH shut a daycare down over this? Just trying to understand, sorry new parent......!

They aren't vague, they just rely on references to other rules (state or CDC). MoCo summarizes what rules apply on its website for the non lawyers. https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

Now you are welcome to search for a provider that chooses not to follow those rules, but the rules do exist and DHHS (there is not DOH) can use its authority to shut them down. Most likely they will get a warning and do what OPs daycare did.

It summarizes them in a very incomplete way by removing any reference to the many scenarios where a daycare provider should not have a young child wear a mask. The CDC and state guidance go into that, but you have dig down to find it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry folks, Montgomery County will be following the state in no time and no masks will be “required” anymore for under 5.

Keep masking your kids folks! Hey you could even take them to a full capacity bar with you, just keep them masked!

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

+1 I want to scream

Since the CDC guidance is 2 and up MoCo is not letting up on masking for preschoolers.

WTF.

9 more days and the mask requirements go away. There are no state requirements for masks at preschools or daycares.

No, they don't go away, I'm sorry. It pisses me off too. The amended county order says the county is revertint to state OR CDC guidance, whichever is stricter. The CDC guidance clearly calls for masks in child care for anyone 2 and up that can wear a mask. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/guidance-for-childcare.html

You don't understand. In 9 days, the Montgomery County order expires, and along with it, the requirement to follow CDC guidance.

I discovered my earlier statement was wrong, While Hogan's order does not require masking in child care facilities, there is a state health order that does require masking for children over the age of 5. So come May 28, kids 2-5 will not be required to wear masks, but those over 5 will be unless they have a developmental or physical disability that prevents them from wearing masks safely.

As it is, that exception for kids that cannot wear masks safely is currently in the county order for kids over the age of 2. It just does it by reference to the CDC and state guidance. e.g.,
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/guidance-for-childcare.html#anchor_1613686971237

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And everybody here focusing on masks. Do you really think your kids are staying 6 feet away from all the other kids? Come on now, use a little common sense.

Do any child care facilities even claim that they do? My kid goes to a preschool program run by the county, and even they are quite clear that they cannot maintain physical distancing.

Because people are picking and choosing “safety” measures to focus on like Bible thumpers picking and choosing Bible verses that suit their agendas.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. If you can't do everything then you should do nothing? Or are you on the other side of this, saying that masks are critical because kids aren't distancing?

The 6 foot requirement never made any sense in combination with masks. The 6 ft distance came from the distance droplets travel when *unobstructed* (i.e., when *not* wearing a mask).

In any event, given the low case numbers, the lower rate of transmission among young kids, and the low risk of serious health effects, it's time to remove the mask requirements on kids. Particularly given that young kids aren't actually wearing masks effectively to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry folks, Montgomery County will be following the state in no time and no masks will be “required” anymore for under 5.

Keep masking your kids folks! Hey you could even take them to a full capacity bar with you, just keep them masked!

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

+1 I want to scream

Since the CDC guidance is 2 and up MoCo is not letting up on masking for preschoolers.

WTF.

9 more days and the mask requirements go away. There are no state requirements for masks at preschools or daycares.

No, they don't go away, I'm sorry. It pisses me off too. The amended county order says the county is revertint to state OR CDC guidance, whichever is stricter. The CDC guidance clearly calls for masks in child care for anyone 2 and up that can wear a mask. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/guidance-for-childcare.html

Everyone needs to be contacting the CDC to complain about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry folks, Montgomery County will be following the state in no time and no masks will be “required” anymore for under 5.

Keep masking your kids folks! Hey you could even take them to a full capacity bar with you, just keep them masked!

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/face-coverings.html

+1 I want to scream

Since the CDC guidance is 2 and up MoCo is not letting up on masking for preschoolers.

WTF.

9 more days and the mask requirements go away. There are no state requirements for masks at preschools or daycares.

No, they don't go away, I'm sorry. It pisses me off too. The amended county order says the county is revertint to state OR CDC guidance, whichever is stricter. The CDC guidance clearly calls for masks in child care for anyone 2 and up that can wear a mask. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/guidance-for-childcare.html

Why is everybody so invested in keeping up the charade of two, three and even four-year-olds being able to safely wear a mask? They are constantly touching them, getting them dirty and they cannot properly wear one for an entire day.

Who is "everybody"? I want the maskandate for young children gone. Take it up with the CDC.

Also the American Academy of Pediatrics. Obviously the CDC is focused solely on covid transmission here- they aren't weighing the risks/benefits for young kids. Even if the decrease in transmission from masking young kids is small they see that as worthwhile because that is their #1 goal. There isn't really anyone advocating for kids right now and asking whether all these measures to "protect" them are really needed or developmentally appropriate.