s/o this brutal admissions year

[Anonymous]

OP, this is a great question. It raises questions about whether the education system is merit-based or something else. In fact, the education system has never been completely merit based (the Jews being discriminated in early 1900s being an example), but was close to it. Now it has moved further away from being merit-based. Would a merit-based system replaced by a populism based system which allocates quotes based on populism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at Columbia. Incredibly driven and hardworking + intense kid, was born that way. My other kids are more laid back. He got in on his own merit + luck. No legacy, sports or first gen\minority status. I sometimes wonder if Ivys are worth it. Workload at Columbia is so overwhelming. He is doing fine and likes it but also seems incredibly stressed out. I wish he could have more fun. Life is short. There is a psychological cost to attending top schools that people seem to overlook. HS was incredibly stressful for him too because he had such self-imposed high standards for himself. I keep reminding him that we don’t care about his grades, just that he is happy and healthy.

I say this with love... I understand it's hard to see your kid stressed and of course, we want them to have some semblance of balance, but it's not a bad thing to really being working your a$$ off, you know? It builds character and sets a foundation for the future. You look at hard working immigrants who might not have had opportunities in their home countries, how hard they have to work, the sacrifices they have to make... (not always, but often) it's a good thing to experience.

Life is short, but he will have time. He'll be out of school around 22. Maybe even some intense grad school or early working years on top of that... but he still has plenty of time to enjoy life. Let him lean in!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every year at this time we get the "admissions were brutal this year" post. Hmmmm...

Well, this certainly was not a typical year. Covid made this a very unique experience. Whether it was more brutal or not, I don't know.

It didn't

Really?

Funny, you must know something that all the college counselors, private counselors and even, wait for it, college admissions officers ALL acknowlege.

In 5 years you are going to realize they all say that every.single.year.

Look at Naviance. Same kids getting into same places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at Columbia. Incredibly driven and hardworking + intense kid, was born that way. My other kids are more laid back. He got in on his own merit + luck. No legacy, sports or first gen\minority status. I sometimes wonder if Ivys are worth it. Workload at Columbia is so overwhelming. He is doing fine and likes it but also seems incredibly stressed out. I wish he could have more fun. Life is short. There is a psychological cost to attending top schools that people seem to overlook. HS was incredibly stressful for him too because he had such self-imposed high standards for himself. I keep reminding him that we don’t care about his grades, just that he is happy and healthy.

I say this with love... I understand it's hard to see your kid stressed and of course, we want them to have some semblance of balance, but it's not a bad thing to really being working your a$$ off, you know? It builds character and sets a foundation for the future. You look at hard working immigrants who might not have had opportunities in their home countries, how hard they have to work, the sacrifices they have to make... (not always, but often) it's a good thing to experience.

Life is short, but he will have time. He'll be out of school around 22. Maybe even some intense grad school or early working years on top of that... but he still has plenty of time to enjoy life. Let him lean in!

I say this with love. I have a kid at a top school with the top grade deflation and your viewpoint is very western BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at Columbia. Incredibly driven and hardworking + intense kid, was born that way. My other kids are more laid back. He got in on his own merit + luck. No legacy, sports or first gen\minority status. I sometimes wonder if Ivys are worth it. Workload at Columbia is so overwhelming. He is doing fine and likes it but also seems incredibly stressed out. I wish he could have more fun. Life is short. There is a psychological cost to attending top schools that people seem to overlook. HS was incredibly stressful for him too because he had such self-imposed high standards for himself. I keep reminding him that we don’t care about his grades, just that he is happy and healthy.

I say this with love... I understand it's hard to see your kid stressed and of course, we want them to have some semblance of balance, but it's not a bad thing to really being working your a$$ off, you know? It builds character and sets a foundation for the future. You look at hard working immigrants who might not have had opportunities in their home countries, how hard they have to work, the sacrifices they have to make... (not always, but often) it's a good thing to experience.

Life is short, but he will have time. He'll be out of school around 22. Maybe even some intense grad school or early working years on top of that... but he still has plenty of time to enjoy life. Let him lean in!

I say this with love. I have a kid at a top school with the top grade deflation and your viewpoint is very western BS.

What "top school" with "top grade deflation"? Because most top schools - especially Ivies - don't have grade deflation.

If your parents went to college in the 50's and 60's you'd be shocked to see their grades. Both my parents went to graduate school in the 60's and their undergrad grades were full of B's and some C's. Maybe kids in top colleges need to be pushed a little more - that is hardly "western BS."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every year at this time we get the "admissions were brutal this year" post. Hmmmm...

Well, this certainly was not a typical year. Covid made this a very unique experience. Whether it was more brutal or not, I don't know.

It didn't

Really?

Funny, you must know something that all the college counselors, private counselors and even, wait for it, college admissions officers ALL acknowlege.

In 5 years you are going to realize they all say that every.single.year.

Look at Naviance. Same kids getting into same places.

Baloney. I looked at Naviance and there were scant red dots in fields of green in the vicinity of my kid's pin on all three of the scatterplots where he was waitlisted. These were T40-T60 schools, not HYPS. His ECs didn't pop but it's not like he did nothing. His teachers have only ever said very nice things about his kindness, maturity and intelligence, so I doubt his letters hurt him and I know his essay didn't. There was something different about this year. Apps to the schools we're all talking about were up 15% on average and they were all test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the elite schools like HPYSM, do they really have the best people? If they are taking mostly athletes, legacy, first gen and URM, are they really getting the TOP students?

Not meant to be a snarky question.

Also, those top students are going somewhere. Do you think there will emerge a middle of the road college that will eventually become elite as a result of getting these top students?

I think schools like Wash. U. and Johns Hopkins have traditionally pursued this strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, do we really want our kids to absorb the message that the purpose of life is to work as hard as possible and get into the best college possible? That is joyless and not the life I want my kids to have. They can have a good life without conducting original scientific research at 16 or being the "best" or "top."

This.
The problem is not kids doing the work.
The problem is setting expectation so that they think their life is over if they don't get into the "top" school (however you define it).
The problem is overprepping for SATs and making your kids take them again if they got a really good score but not a "great" score.
The problem is pushing kids into activities they don't want to do "for college applications" and leaving them no time to pursue their own hobbies or interests
The problem is telling them that a B is not good enough, even if it is the best they can do in a particular class.
The problem is pushing our kids to become the person we think they should be (grades, college, career, etc) instead of letting them make their own choices and own them.

It has been more than 10 years since "Race to Nowhere" came out, but things have not changed much if we are still having the same conversations.

This. 100% this!

It’s because more people are competing for fewer economic opportunities.

We live in an economic system that is increasingly winner takes all. And I say this as someone who is pretty close to the top (can easily pay full freight for 3 kids) but still far from being able to opt out of the rat race completely (can’t buy our kids’ way into Harvard or give them 5M + trust funds).

I say this without rancor: If you can afford full freight for 3 kids, you ARE a winner. Because our society has become so immobile, your kids are highly likely to be fine whether they run the rat race or not. They don't need to go to Harvard to succeed in life. You are one of the people guarding their spoils. You are one of the winners trying to take it all.

I am confused by the bolded assessment of PP. What would you do differently if you were in her shoes?

I would say that someone in this position is not, as she described "far from unable to opt out of the rat race." Her kids don't need to run the rat race and thinking that they do-- behaving and encouraging then to behave as if they do-- contributes to the toxicity of the general environment. Seriously.

LOL I see that you didn't actually answer the question posed to you. You wouldn't do anything differently because you are probably in the same boat or wish you were.

Who is not going to pay for their kid to go to college just because other parents can't? A nutcase.

Wait, what? No one is talking about not going to college. What is being discussed in this thread is kids killing themselves to get into "top" schools. And my point is that UMC kids do not need to engage in this rat race to succeed in life. They do not need to kill themselves in high school or go to HYP etc to end up living a comfortable life. They can go to the state U or wherever and they will be fine. That instead they and their parents behave as if the future hangs in the balance if they don't go to a Top 20 college is exactly what creates the rest race they are complaining about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every year at this time we get the "admissions were brutal this year" post. Hmmmm...

Well, this certainly was not a typical year. Covid made this a very unique experience. Whether it was more brutal or not, I don't know.

It didn't

Really?

Funny, you must know something that all the college counselors, private counselors and even, wait for it, college admissions officers ALL acknowlege.

In 5 years you are going to realize they all say that every.single.year.

Look at Naviance. Same kids getting into same places.

Baloney. I looked at Naviance and there were scant red dots in fields of green in the vicinity of my kid's pin on all three of the scatterplots where he was waitlisted. These were T40-T60 schools, not HYPS. His ECs didn't pop but it's not like he did nothing. His teachers have only ever said very nice things about his kindness, maturity and intelligence, so I doubt his letters hurt him and I know his essay didn't. There was something different about this year. Apps to the schools we're all talking about were up 15% on average and they were all test optional.

There were reds. That’s your kid! Sorry but that is the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at Columbia. Incredibly driven and hardworking + intense kid, was born that way. My other kids are more laid back. He got in on his own merit + luck. No legacy, sports or first gen\minority status. I sometimes wonder if Ivys are worth it. Workload at Columbia is so overwhelming. He is doing fine and likes it but also seems incredibly stressed out. I wish he could have more fun. Life is short. There is a psychological cost to attending top schools that people seem to overlook. HS was incredibly stressful for him too because he had such self-imposed high standards for himself. I keep reminding him that we don’t care about his grades, just that he is happy and healthy.

I say this with love... I understand it's hard to see your kid stressed and of course, we want them to have some semblance of balance, but it's not a bad thing to really being working your a$$ off, you know? It builds character and sets a foundation for the future. You look at hard working immigrants who might not have had opportunities in their home countries, how hard they have to work, the sacrifices they have to make... (not always, but often) it's a good thing to experience.

Life is short, but he will have time. He'll be out of school around 22. Maybe even some intense grad school or early working years on top of that... but he still has plenty of time to enjoy life. Let him lean in!

I say this with love. I have a kid at a top school with the top grade deflation and your viewpoint is very western BS.

Ok, so we disagree. Why do you have to be mean?

[Anonymous]

How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

They know where you live, where the parents went to school and what they do for a living. That can give a pretty good indication of where things are financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

Some do and some don't. Look up "need blind" v. "need aware"

[Anonymous]

^^ and that’s for need blind schools. Need aware schools have way more info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the elite schools like HPYSM, do they really have the best people? If they are taking mostly athletes, legacy, first gen and URM, are they really getting the TOP students?

Not meant to be a snarky question.

Also, those top students are going somewhere. Do you think there will emerge a middle of the road college that will eventually become elite as a result of getting these top students?

This is a great point and I have wondered about it too. If so many truly bright, hard working kids are going to big publics, less name brands, even regional universities.... what will we start thinking of as impressive? Will it be, as you said, more other schools, or will be stop thinking of college as a strong marker of brains and ability?

This ins't new. Just think of how often you see something in the news and you think or hear, "Harvard must be so embarrassed." There have always been a lot of less than stellar people coming out of these schools. Yet, people follow the old money.