I’m a Dem here in Texas. Our wind turbines froze.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The wind turbines froze, but so did everything else. Thermal plants actually, at least as of yesterday morning, accounted for more of the missing demand than wind. It's not a renewable issue but an overall infrastructure issue.

This is misleading. Many of the green energy folks in Texas are making this argument. First, as a percentage of available capacity, more renewable energy is offline than thermal. Second, investment in thermal infrastructure has basically dried up in the past 5-6 years as wind and now solar have commanded dollars. Thermal has its real problems, but renewable advocates need to be honest about what is happening here. Intermittent actually means intermittent.

Let's be honest then. The VAST majority of down power plants are fossil fuel ones. Wind isn't a substantial part of winter energy production in Texas. Wind turbines are used in freaking Antartica. The wind turbines in Texas were not weatherized. Texas doesnt keep backup power plants running which means they can't handle demand surges. Had Texas been connected to the national grid then they could have handled the demand surge.

The elecrical grid does need a variety of sources. Redundancies are important. Green power cannot be one hundred percent until battery storage technology is improved. That's all true but has absolutely nothing to do with this manmade catastrophe.

Thermal infrastructure has been underinvested in in Texas for the better part of the past decade while renewable has soaked up dollars. Coal capacity (second best performing in this type of weather behind nuke) has been cut in half. Natural gas power gen has seen minimal investments. Meanwhile, the state’s population has exploded over the past twenty years. Hint, less thermal capacity expected to serve more people is not going to be a recipe for success.

There is no national grid. Please come back when you understand that. We have regional grids and interconnection isn’t as simple as running an extension cord across the Red River. And, not for nothing, the neighboring regional power coordinator is also going through rolling black outs.

I’m not arguing against renewables as part of a generation portfolio. I am arguing for honesty that this isn’t as simple as wishing a green transition occurs and you’re done. There is a reason why power authorities in Massachusetts are arguing that people will need to get used to living without home heating....

The future requires a mix of energy solutions. The “transition” will take decades.
But it’s ridiculous to blame the current catastrophe in Texas on green energy. Nuclear power plants were shut down due to freezing cooling pipes.
The fact of the matter is that (1) the energy infrastructure is not weatherized to handle more extreme weather events (which will become more frequent) and (2) the Texan energy network is not plugged in to nearby regional networks from where they could pull excess energy.

These conditions are the natural result of under-investment and a hesitancy to address climate change.

Texans should get ready for a tax hike. It’s going to be expensive to make your state more resilient to climate change. Alternatively, you can just die during weather events.

Death or taxes - they’re always waiting for you.

Germany tried to go full green. They decommissioned nuke plants. Their manufacturing sector suffered and they’re now burning more coal than ever.

We’ve seen problems in California and Texas and we’re seeing secondary problems in places like MA and NY. But sure, at least partially assigning blame to renewables is unreasonable.

The SPP is currently experiencing rolling blackouts. What excess power would an interconnected Texas be pulling right now?

From the rest of the freaking North America grid.

SPP—the neighboring operator that borders Texas on all sides and is interconnected into the eastern grid—is also experiencing rolling blackouts. If there were simply an interconnect issue then SPP wouldn’t have blackouts right now.

El Paso is connected to the western grid and has hardly any power outages at all.

El Paso isn’t governed by this liberal bastion of a renewable energy commission in TX.

Please stop trying to blame any of this on “liberals.” Texas has been under the complete control of the reactionary GOP for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The wind turbines froze, but so did everything else. Thermal plants actually, at least as of yesterday morning, accounted for more of the missing demand than wind. It's not a renewable issue but an overall infrastructure issue.

This is misleading. Many of the green energy folks in Texas are making this argument. First, as a percentage of available capacity, more renewable energy is offline than thermal. Second, investment in thermal infrastructure has basically dried up in the past 5-6 years as wind and now solar have commanded dollars. Thermal has its real problems, but renewable advocates need to be honest about what is happening here. Intermittent actually means intermittent.

Let's be honest then. The VAST majority of down power plants are fossil fuel ones. Wind isn't a substantial part of winter energy production in Texas. Wind turbines are used in freaking Antartica. The wind turbines in Texas were not weatherized. Texas doesnt keep backup power plants running which means they can't handle demand surges. Had Texas been connected to the national grid then they could have handled the demand surge.

The elecrical grid does need a variety of sources. Redundancies are important. Green power cannot be one hundred percent until battery storage technology is improved. That's all true but has absolutely nothing to do with this manmade catastrophe.

Thermal infrastructure has been underinvested in in Texas for the better part of the past decade while renewable has soaked up dollars. Coal capacity (second best performing in this type of weather behind nuke) has been cut in half. Natural gas power gen has seen minimal investments. Meanwhile, the state’s population has exploded over the past twenty years. Hint, less thermal capacity expected to serve more people is not going to be a recipe for success.

There is no national grid. Please come back when you understand that. We have regional grids and interconnection isn’t as simple as running an extension cord across the Red River. And, not for nothing, the neighboring regional power coordinator is also going through rolling black outs.

I’m not arguing against renewables as part of a generation portfolio. I am arguing for honesty that this isn’t as simple as wishing a green transition occurs and you’re done. There is a reason why power authorities in Massachusetts are arguing that people will need to get used to living without home heating....

The future requires a mix of energy solutions. The “transition” will take decades.
But it’s ridiculous to blame the current catastrophe in Texas on green energy. Nuclear power plants were shut down due to freezing cooling pipes.
The fact of the matter is that (1) the energy infrastructure is not weatherized to handle more extreme weather events (which will become more frequent) and (2) the Texan energy network is not plugged in to nearby regional networks from where they could pull excess energy.

These conditions are the natural result of under-investment and a hesitancy to address climate change.

Texans should get ready for a tax hike. It’s going to be expensive to make your state more resilient to climate change. Alternatively, you can just die during weather events.

Death or taxes - they’re always waiting for you.

Germany tried to go full green. They decommissioned nuke plants. Their manufacturing sector suffered and they’re now burning more coal than ever.

We’ve seen problems in California and Texas and we’re seeing secondary problems in places like MA and NY. But sure, at least partially assigning blame to renewables is unreasonable.

The SPP is currently experiencing rolling blackouts. What excess power would an interconnected Texas be pulling right now?

From the rest of the freaking North America grid.

SPP—the neighboring operator that borders Texas on all sides and is interconnected into the eastern grid—is also experiencing rolling blackouts. If there were simply an interconnect issue then SPP wouldn’t have blackouts right now.

El Paso is connected to the western grid and has hardly any power outages at all.

El Paso isn’t governed by this liberal bastion of a renewable energy commission in TX.

Please stop trying to blame any of this on “liberals.” Texas has been under the complete control of the reactionary GOP for decades.

But that means you want me to take responsibility!

That's no fair!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what to think. My husband works 25 miles away so he packed up a weeks worth of food and clothes. Please do not make a joke of this. The GOP idiots have not kept up our infrastructure. We can handle 100 degrees but not zero. This is scary. I’m worried about power and I have four greyhounds here.

There are wind turbines throughout the midwest in Iowa and Indiana, Ohio..... and those don't freeze. Why did the ones in Texas freeze?

I am curious as to why you did not mention the coal and gas fired plants that also froze?

I haven’t checked the data but someone I trust told me this weather system is a 3.9 sigma event for Texas. I’d be surprised is windmills in the north are resilient to an equine Lang event, but perhaps they are.

narrator: they are

Somehow, turbines in the upper midwest and on ridges in PA and MD that routinely experience sub-zero temperatures, don't have these issues. Science and all.

Link?

In the 2019 polar vortex windmills throughout the Midwest and the Prairie states shut down due to extreme cold and actually became a net drag on the system as turbines needed electricity for heating to avoid damage to the turbines.

I don’t have time to look at the data, but I know that even weatherized wind turbines don’t operate below -20. Please provide a link that shows turbines in the Midwest and Prairie States still operate during a 3.9 sigma weather event.

So I live in Minnesota and was here for the “polar vortex” of 2019 (right now seems as bad, FWIW). I’m trying to nose around Xcel Energy to see if they what percentage of my energy comes from wind vs solar since the weather right now seems comparable. If there’s a wind farm in the arctic circle, you can bet they should work in the continental US.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s important to note that many homes in the north are prepared for power outages with alternate sources of heat, electricity, and water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what to think. My husband works 25 miles away so he packed up a weeks worth of food and clothes. Please do not make a joke of this. The GOP idiots have not kept up our infrastructure. We can handle 100 degrees but not zero. This is scary. I’m worried about power and I have four greyhounds here.

There are wind turbines throughout the midwest in Iowa and Indiana, Ohio..... and those don't freeze. Why did the ones in Texas freeze?

I am curious as to why you did not mention the coal and gas fired plants that also froze?

I haven’t checked the data but someone I trust told me this weather system is a 3.9 sigma event for Texas. I’d be surprised is windmills in the north are resilient to an equine Lang event, but perhaps they are.

narrator: they are

Somehow, turbines in the upper midwest and on ridges in PA and MD that routinely experience sub-zero temperatures, don't have these issues. Science and all.

Link?

In the 2019 polar vortex windmills throughout the Midwest and the Prairie states shut down due to extreme cold and actually became a net drag on the system as turbines needed electricity for heating to avoid damage to the turbines.

I don’t have time to look at the data, but I know that even weatherized wind turbines don’t operate below -20. Please provide a link that shows turbines in the Midwest and Prairie States still operate during a 3.9 sigma weather event.

So I live in Minnesota and was here for the “polar vortex” of 2019 (right now seems as bad, FWIW). I’m trying to nose around Xcel Energy to see if they what percentage of my energy comes from wind vs solar since the weather right now seems comparable. If there’s a wind farm in the arctic circle, you can bet they should work in the continental US.

No, you can’t make that bet. Nothing is ever that simple. For example, down here in Texas we get mocked for not having salt on our frozen highways and instead Texas DoT use sand. But it turns out that we have to use a special mix of concrete to deal with the Texas summer heat. That concrete is particularly susceptible to damage from salt. If we were to salt our highways we would have to rebuild them a week later. But your typical northerner who moves here always lectures about using salt on the highways during winter freezes. Point being that nothing is ever as simple as it appears.

My uneducated guess is that those arctic windmills are over engineered to deal with extreme cold but they are not a cost effective or viable alternative for commercial use at scale.

We do know that weatherized windmills in the north shut down during the 2019 polar vortex. So this isn’t just a Texas problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought Texas wanted to secede? Why should we care?

Only a drew weirdos bring that up every couple of years. Most of us here in Texas are normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought Texas wanted to secede? Why should we care?

Only a drew weirdos bring that up every couple of years. Most of us here in Texas are normal.

Few not drew

[Anonymous]

How long until TX asks for an energy bail out?

If they did want to join the federally-managed system, who would shoulder the costs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wonderful that it didn't even cross my mind!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought Texas wanted to secede? Why should we care?

Only a few weirdos bring that up every couple of years. Most of us here in Texas are normal.

This time the “weirdos” are a member of the state legislature and the head of the Texas state GOP.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/943901.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what to think. My husband works 25 miles away so he packed up a weeks worth of food and clothes. Please do not make a joke of this. The GOP idiots have not kept up our infrastructure. We can handle 100 degrees but not zero. This is scary. I’m worried about power and I have four greyhounds here.

There are wind turbines throughout the midwest in Iowa and Indiana, Ohio..... and those don't freeze. Why did the ones in Texas freeze?

I am curious as to why you did not mention the coal and gas fired plants that also froze?

I haven’t checked the data but someone I trust told me this weather system is a 3.9 sigma event for Texas. I’d be surprised is windmills in the north are resilient to an equine Lang event, but perhaps they are.

narrator: they are

Somehow, turbines in the upper midwest and on ridges in PA and MD that routinely experience sub-zero temperatures, don't have these issues. Science and all.

Link?

In the 2019 polar vortex windmills throughout the Midwest and the Prairie states shut down due to extreme cold and actually became a net drag on the system as turbines needed electricity for heating to avoid damage to the turbines.

I don’t have time to look at the data, but I know that even weatherized wind turbines don’t operate below -20. Please provide a link that shows turbines in the Midwest and Prairie States still operate during a 3.9 sigma weather event.

So I live in Minnesota and was here for the “polar vortex” of 2019 (right now seems as bad, FWIW). I’m trying to nose around Xcel Energy to see if they what percentage of my energy comes from wind vs solar since the weather right now seems comparable. If there’s a wind farm in the arctic circle, you can bet they should work in the continental US.

No, you can’t make that bet. Nothing is ever that simple. For example, down here in Texas we get mocked for not having salt on our frozen highways and instead Texas DoT use sand. But it turns out that we have to use a special mix of concrete to deal with the Texas summer heat. That concrete is particularly susceptible to damage from salt. If we were to salt our highways we would have to rebuild them a week later. But your typical northerner who moves here always lectures about using salt on the highways during winter freezes. Point being that nothing is ever as simple as it appears.

My uneducated guess is that those arctic windmills are over engineered to deal with extreme cold but they are not a cost effective or viable alternative for commercial use at scale.

We do know that weatherized windmills in the north shut down during the 2019 polar vortex. So this isn’t just a Texas problem.

I see nothing special about the concrete in the TxDOT Specifications book. I think your special concrete story isn't accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought Texas wanted to secede? Why should we care?

Only a few weirdos bring that up every couple of years. Most of us here in Texas are normal.

This time the “weirdos” are a member of the state legislature and the head of the Texas state GOP.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/943901.page

Yeah, well my Biden voting daughter and nephew are down there freezing. All of us wish the rest of TX weren't so Trumpy. All I care about right now is getting them some help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wonderful that it didn't even cross my mind!

How about making them say they want to stay in the union before we ship aid down there?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for politicizing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wonderful that it didn't even cross my mind!

How about making them say they want to stay in the union before we ship aid down there?

+1 this is like the UK expecting aid from the EU as an EU member, while in the same breath saying that they are leaving the EU.