Smart Restart APS- ventilation studies

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You don’t get to publish “your improved data” and then refuse to share it for replication or examination.

This is insane that people are listening to her.

Having lots of numbers and visuals doesn’t make you right.

I agree 100%. I didn’t really have an opinion on it until I saw she refused to share her backup and calculations because she didn’t want people to poke holes in her argument. I cannot take her seriously after that. That’s not how any numbers based evaluation works.

That thread is a big yikes.

Serious smackdown from Frank Bellavia.

Now I need to go find this.

LOL. He *received* a smackdown.

That would be the perception of observers who have fallen for the faulty interpretation and manipulation of the FOIA data, yes. The cargo cult of AEM.

LOL. A few posters tore apart his first post using data provided from APS. He acquiesced and said he’d work on it.

Total smack down.

Ha ha ha! Nothing like that happened. His “acquiescence” was informing the community that APS is paying a consultant for a complex conversion from one unit per minute to a different unit per hour. You know, since people are publicizing f’d up conclusions because they aren’t experts and have no idea what they’re doing.

Of course it did. Stop lying. **She** pointed out several inaccuracies or gaps in the data and analysis completed by APS/the consultants. He ultimately agreed with her.

DP. Not even close, but doesn’t surprise me you have such an inflated sense of your impact.

“My impact”? Who do you think I am?

Someone who is very invested in making sure people think the smart restart report is correct.

I am invested in that my kids are going back in person in a few weeks and I want them to be safe.

I want classrooms to have 4-6 ACH. Put air cleaners in there, if necessary. Ideally, APS would have already assessed this accurately and shared data with the community, AND installed air cleaners where needed. This hasn’t happened yet.

I also don’t want my kids eating lunch in a cafeteria with 50-100 kids.

Yes, we know you think very highly of your non-reviewed work.

It’s not *my* work. I’m not even a member of Smart Restart. I just care about having proper ventilation.

[Anonymous]

The point is that this battle for basic, common sense safety shouldn’t have to be fought school by school. APS should have standard protocols to keep students in small groups, to avoid super spreader lunches, etc. They are not ready at the middle and high schools. They’ve got a lot of work to do before March 9. The fact that anyone thinks these plans ensure student safety at the most basic level of CDC recommendations is shocking. They’re not doi what need to be done to open safely in middle and high. Period.

This.

I’m an APS elementary teacher and have 2 students at the HS level. Given the new cdc recommendations, and that we are still currently at the “highest level” of cases which CDC says is not safe for secondary students without a testing program, I hope they will walk back the return dates for secondary until they can either implement a testing program or the case numbers come down.

Even at elementary there is a need to “hold” students. As an example my neighbor got the elementary bus schedule on parentvue for her 2nd grader. School ends at 2:20 and the bus has her getting home at 4:10. Where will she be held from 2:20-4 while waiting for the bus? Who will watch her? My friend is going to just do car pick up instead, but this will be an issue for parents who can’t do that. Teachers currently have meetings after student hours most days so they can’t be tasked to supervise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The point is that this battle for basic, common sense safety shouldn’t have to be fought school by school. APS should have standard protocols to keep students in small groups, to avoid super spreader lunches, etc. They are not ready at the middle and high schools. They’ve got a lot of work to do before March 9. The fact that anyone thinks these plans ensure student safety at the most basic level of CDC recommendations is shocking. They’re not doi what need to be done to open safely in middle and high. Period.

This.

I’m an APS elementary teacher and have 2 students at the HS level. Given the new cdc recommendations, and that we are still currently at the “highest level” of cases which CDC says is not safe for secondary students without a testing program, I hope they will walk back the return dates for secondary until they can either implement a testing program or the case numbers come down.

Even at elementary there is a need to “hold” students. As an example my neighbor got the elementary bus schedule on parentvue for her 2nd grader. School ends at 2:20 and the bus has her getting home at 4:10. Where will she be held from 2:20-4 while waiting for the bus? Who will watch her? My friend is going to just do car pick up instead, but this will be an issue for parents who can’t do that. Teachers currently have meetings after student hours most days so they can’t be tasked to supervise.

You are exactly right. Opening middle and high school without a weekly testing program at the “highest” level of community transmission (what we have now) is not consistent with the CDC guidelines issued Friday. They should be pausing middle and high schools til the numbers come down. Seriously. I hope some of these groups with clout like Smart Restart are pointing this out. I’m writing to SB and Engage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point is that this battle for basic, common sense safety shouldn’t have to be fought school by school. APS should have standard protocols to keep students in small groups, to avoid super spreader lunches, etc. They are not ready at the middle and high schools. They’ve got a lot of work to do before March 9. The fact that anyone thinks these plans ensure student safety at the most basic level of CDC recommendations is shocking. They’re not doi what need to be done to open safely in middle and high. Period.

This.

I’m an APS elementary teacher and have 2 students at the HS level. Given the new cdc recommendations, and that we are still currently at the “highest level” of cases which CDC says is not safe for secondary students without a testing program, I hope they will walk back the return dates for secondary until they can either implement a testing program or the case numbers come down.

Even at elementary there is a need to “hold” students. As an example my neighbor got the elementary bus schedule on parentvue for her 2nd grader. School ends at 2:20 and the bus has her getting home at 4:10. Where will she be held from 2:20-4 while waiting for the bus? Who will watch her? My friend is going to just do car pick up instead, but this will be an issue for parents who can’t do that. Teachers currently have meetings after student hours most days so they can’t be tasked to supervise.

You are exactly right. Opening middle and high school without a weekly testing program at the “highest” level of community transmission (what we have now) is not consistent with the CDC guidelines issued Friday. They should be pausing middle and high schools til the numbers come down. Seriously. I hope some of these groups with clout like Smart Restart are pointing this out. I’m writing to SB and Engage.

I agree with you both, and I do want to see my kid in school, just not with these numbers and not following guidance. We will get there but needs to be done safely (and that being defined by CDC guidelines not parent opinion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point is that this battle for basic, common sense safety shouldn’t have to be fought school by school. APS should have standard protocols to keep students in small groups, to avoid super spreader lunches, etc. They are not ready at the middle and high schools. They’ve got a lot of work to do before March 9. The fact that anyone thinks these plans ensure student safety at the most basic level of CDC recommendations is shocking. They’re not doi what need to be done to open safely in middle and high. Period.

This.

I’m an APS elementary teacher and have 2 students at the HS level. Given the new cdc recommendations, and that we are still currently at the “highest level” of cases which CDC says is not safe for secondary students without a testing program, I hope they will walk back the return dates for secondary until they can either implement a testing program or the case numbers come down.

Even at elementary there is a need to “hold” students. As an example my neighbor got the elementary bus schedule on parentvue for her 2nd grader. School ends at 2:20 and the bus has her getting home at 4:10. Where will she be held from 2:20-4 while waiting for the bus? Who will watch her? My friend is going to just do car pick up instead, but this will be an issue for parents who can’t do that. Teachers currently have meetings after student hours most days so they can’t be tasked to supervise.

You are exactly right. Opening middle and high school without a weekly testing program at the “highest” level of community transmission (what we have now) is not consistent with the CDC guidelines issued Friday. They should be pausing middle and high schools til the numbers come down. Seriously. I hope some of these groups with clout like Smart Restart are pointing this out. I’m writing to SB and Engage.

I agree with you both, and I do want to see my kid in school, just not with these numbers and not following guidance. We will get there but needs to be done safely (and that being defined by CDC guidelines not parent opinion).

Agree. We seem very close to sending kids back for hybrid - at least for ES. Get the air cleaners and don’t have kids eat in cafeterias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

It’s a big deal if you believe the science that says being indoors and unmasked with large groups of people is one of the main ways for Covid to spread.

Yes. And frankly the academics will get worked out. Having a safe environment is a more urgent priority.

Blah, blah, blah

The environment is safe. The academics won't get worked out. They never do. And kids will wear masks. And no, I am not going to freak out if they take them off during lunch. Do you think the schools that are back in person have not been letting kids eat lunch? Or letting the staff or teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

It’s a big deal if you believe the science that says being indoors and unmasked with large groups of people is one of the main ways for Covid to spread.

Yes. And frankly the academics will get worked out. Having a safe environment is a more urgent priority.

Blah, blah, blah

The environment is safe. The academics won't get worked out. They never do. And kids will wear masks. And no, I am not going to freak out if they take them off during lunch. Do you think the schools that are back in person have not been letting kids eat lunch? Or letting the staff or teachers?

You are ok with 100 people eating indoors? Follower shortly by two more groups of 100?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

It’s a big deal if you believe the science that says being indoors and unmasked with large groups of people is one of the main ways for Covid to spread.

Yes. And frankly the academics will get worked out. Having a safe environment is a more urgent priority.

Blah, blah, blah

The environment is safe. The academics won't get worked out. They never do. And kids will wear masks. And no, I am not going to freak out if they take them off during lunch. Do you think the schools that are back in person have not been letting kids eat lunch? Or letting the staff or teachers?

You are ok with 100 people eating indoors? Follower shortly by two more groups of 100?

I don’t have a high schooler, but the problem with your logic is that this scenario has been played out over and over all over the country without super speader events. APS has to reopen per the Governor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

It’s a big deal if you believe the science that says being indoors and unmasked with large groups of people is one of the main ways for Covid to spread.

Yes. And frankly the academics will get worked out. Having a safe environment is a more urgent priority.

Blah, blah, blah

The environment is safe. The academics won't get worked out. They never do. And kids will wear masks. And no, I am not going to freak out if they take them off during lunch. Do you think the schools that are back in person have not been letting kids eat lunch? Or letting the staff or teachers?

You are ok with 100 people eating indoors? Follower shortly by two more groups of 100?

I don’t have a high schooler, but the problem with your logic is that this scenario has been played out over and over all over the country without super speader events. APS has to reopen per the Governor.

Most of the places where schools have been/stayed open also have not enforced other basic standards either so they have no idea where anyone got sick. I’m not taking cues from Florida, Texas, or Alabama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

It’s a big deal if you believe the science that says being indoors and unmasked with large groups of people is one of the main ways for Covid to spread.

Yes. And frankly the academics will get worked out. Having a safe environment is a more urgent priority.

Blah, blah, blah

The environment is safe. The academics won't get worked out. They never do. And kids will wear masks. And no, I am not going to freak out if they take them off during lunch. Do you think the schools that are back in person have not been letting kids eat lunch? Or letting the staff or teachers?

You are ok with 100 people eating indoors? Follower shortly by two more groups of 100?

I don’t have a high schooler, but the problem with your logic is that this scenario has been played out over and over all over the country without super speader events. APS has to reopen per the Governor.

Huh? There are outbreaks in schools all over the place. Even in VA: https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-outbreaks-by-selected-exposure-settings/

And those are just the cases that happened to be tested. We’ve never had adequate testing to know the full scope.

APS schools are opening. That’s not the issue. The issue is opening safely. It’s manageable- we just need to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

It’s a big deal if you believe the science that says being indoors and unmasked with large groups of people is one of the main ways for Covid to spread.

Yes. And frankly the academics will get worked out. Having a safe environment is a more urgent priority.

Blah, blah, blah

The environment is safe. The academics won't get worked out. They never do. And kids will wear masks. And no, I am not going to freak out if they take them off during lunch. Do you think the schools that are back in person have not been letting kids eat lunch? Or letting the staff or teachers?

You are ok with 100 people eating indoors? Follower shortly by two more groups of 100?

I don’t have a high schooler, but the problem with your logic is that this scenario has been played out over and over all over the country without super speader events. APS has to reopen per the Governor.

So that’s a yes on indoor dining?

Do you eat indoors at restaurants yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

It’s a big deal if you believe the science that says being indoors and unmasked with large groups of people is one of the main ways for Covid to spread.

Yes. And frankly the academics will get worked out. Having a safe environment is a more urgent priority.

Blah, blah, blah

The environment is safe. The academics won't get worked out. They never do. And kids will wear masks. And no, I am not going to freak out if they take them off during lunch. Do you think the schools that are back in person have not been letting kids eat lunch? Or letting the staff or teachers?

You are ok with 100 people eating indoors? Follower shortly by two more groups of 100?

I don’t have a high schooler, but the problem with your logic is that this scenario has been played out over and over all over the country without super speader events. APS has to reopen per the Governor.

So that’s a yes on indoor dining?

Do you eat indoors at restaurants yourself?

Is this true all over the country or do they have kids eating in much smaller groups in classrooms etc. The governor needs to align his order with the new CDC guidance issued Friday. And APS needs to open middle and high school compliant with CDC guidance. It doesn’t violate the guidance to pause middle and high school anyone. The order said have plans by March 15. Not mandatory open by then.

[Anonymous]

I’m down with CDC.

[Anonymous]

From seeing comments on DCUM all month long its clear to me that some kids across all levels of school -- elementary, middle, and high school -- really need to go back to school this year for mental health reasons.

MANY and perhaps even the majority of middle and high school kids are doing fine. But some really are not getting the support they need at home for various reasons -- and many parents are working under various strained circumstances and simply really cannot provide effective support at home. Not really their fault. Not anyone's fault. But the kids need help from the schools here. And teachers in certain schools, for whatever reasons, have not been providing the needed support virtually. (Not knocking all teachers. Many or most have gone above and beyond! But some kids are falling through the cracks.)

So even though I don't want to send my own kid until everything is absolutely safe, I support hybrid return to school FOR SOME STUDENTS THAT CHOOSE IT, though I think teachers need to be vaccinated first. Your kid's mental health is not more important than a teacher's right to stay alive from a known deadly disease. But once shots are in arms the the 2 week waiting period is past, I think some portion of teachers should return to schools to support some student population. For elementary school that might be most of the kids, just every two days so there can be adequate spacing. For middle and high school this should be an even smaller number of kids in the school. Parents who are doing just fine with kids at home and who aren't comfortable with safety efforts and ventilation and cohorting can keep kids home.

I would hope that by next year, schools really do implement CDC guidance on ventilation and cohorting. But this year I've been convinced by the medical worker parent with two kids, one in middle school, who are having a really rough time. Give these parents some help! Get your shots but help the people with kids who are in trouble who really need it. Some really do. You might be saving a life just like this medical worker does, and not even realize it.

[Anonymous]

I support hybrid return to school FOR SOME STUDENTS THAT CHOOSE IT

That is exactly what is happening. And it should include air filters. And figure out the least risky lunch option.

As of now, my kids are headed back in a few weeks. If they can’t figure out the lunch thing I’ll keep them home. But kids are going back one way or another. Hopefully the safe way.