I want to be Mormon

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact about Mormons and Ashkenazi Jews:
Leta Hollingworth did research into IQ in early 1900s. (This later turned into the Stanford ability project). She was particularly interested in kids above 180 IQ.

In fact, she wrote a book called Children Above 180 IQ. They found the highest incidence of geniuses among Mormons and Ashkenazi Jews - and similar average IQs in these groups.

Average IQ for both these groups was 115-120 as opposed to 100 in rest of population.

I've seen it hypothesized that both religions require a lot of specific and complex beliefs. Both also have a high attrition rate (people leaving Judaism and Mormonism at higher rates than leave other forms of Christianity or Islam)

You have to keep in mind the time when the study was done...to be a Mormon or Jew in America in the early 1900s was pretty hard.

In the early 1900s, Mormonism looked very different than it does now. For one thing, the religion had only been around for 70 years at that point. The Mormons had only been in Utah for 50 years, so it was a new religion. There were still clashes between Mormons and the government and also non-mormons in Utah. The Mormons and the gov't were basically in a big battle over the practice of polygamy (that resulted in the gov't seizing chruch assets, among other things) that wasn't really resolved until the early 1900s when the mainstream mormon church banned the practice.

Judaism in America also looked different. In the early 1900s, most Ashkenazi Jews were very recent arrivals, escaping persecution in Europe. The ones who were able to come over here were the lucky and/or hardworking.

(Interestingly enough, I know you are talking about mostly Conservative jews but Orthodox Judaism, like mormonism was not born until the 1800s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My MIL is Mormon and FIL is not. Never understood how that works. She goes to temple or whatever every Sunday (pre-pandemic, now it's virtual). He does not. He also loves to drink beer and obvioulsy she does not. She doesn't seem *too* hardcore, as she will buy alcohol for others and allows it in her home.

I have met some mighty fine Mormon men from Utah through them.

My parents both rejected organized religion as young adults but my mother was born into a Mormon family (Almost all the kids in her family went to BYU) and my father into a Catholic family.

I have a sh*tton of cousins, in case anyone's wondering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beneath the cheery surface, there is a tremendous amount of fighting over/stressing over money in Mormon families, even *seemingly* affluent ones. You have a culture where women are encouraged not to work and stay home and couples are encouraged to have a lot of kids at an early age. That means that a Mormon man is often supporting a family of 5+ in his 20s and many struggle to do so. But even if they're struggling and fight a lot about money, they'll pretend to have it together.

That's also why so many women are so susceptible to the lure of MLMs which promise them that they don't have to work outside the home but they can make money to help out.

That's interesting. Though SLC has a very low cost of living so they benefit there.

Even with the low COL, it's hard to keep up the picket-fence fantasy if you have to support a SAHM, 4 kids, etc. in your 20s. A lot of Mormon men have a lot of debt even if they won't admit it--student loan, consumer, home. And it's hard to ask your parents for help with finances and/or babysitting because they probably have 5 other kids in the same boat, each with a bunch of kids of their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact about Mormons and Ashkenazi Jews:
Leta Hollingworth did research into IQ in early 1900s. (This later turned into the Stanford ability project). She was particularly interested in kids above 180 IQ.

In fact, she wrote a book called Children Above 180 IQ. They found the highest incidence of geniuses among Mormons and Ashkenazi Jews - and similar average IQs in these groups.

Average IQ for both these groups was 115-120 as opposed to 100 in rest of population.

I've seen it hypothesized that both religions require a lot of specific and complex beliefs. Both also have a high attrition rate (people leaving Judaism and Mormonism at higher rates than leave other forms of Christianity or Islam)

You have to keep in mind the time when the study was done...to be a Mormon or Jew in America in the early 1900s was pretty hard.

In the early 1900s, Mormonism looked very different than it does now. For one thing, the religion had only been around for 70 years at that point. The Mormons had only been in Utah for 50 years, so it was a new religion. There were still clashes between Mormons and the government and also non-mormons in Utah. The Mormons and the gov't were basically in a big battle over the practice of polygamy (that resulted in the gov't seizing chruch assets, among other things) that wasn't really resolved until the early 1900s when the mainstream mormon church banned the practice.

Judaism in America also looked different. In the early 1900s, most Ashkenazi Jews were very recent arrivals, escaping persecution in Europe. The ones who were able to come over here were the lucky and/or hardworking.

(Interestingly enough, I know you are talking about mostly Conservative jews but Orthodox Judaism, like mormonism was not born until the 1800s).

You are a little confused. All Jewish Ashkenazi communities were what we'd consider Orthodox im Europe pre Napoleon and equal rights for jews. Reform movement is what started in 1800s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Beneath the cheery surface, there is a tremendous amount of fighting over/stressing over money in Mormon families, even *seemingly* affluent ones. You have a culture where women are encouraged not to work and stay home and couples are encouraged to have a lot of kids at an early age. That means that a Mormon man is often supporting a family of 5+ in his 20s and many struggle to do so. But even if they're struggling and fight a lot about money, they'll pretend to have it together.

That's also why so many women are so susceptible to the lure of MLMs which promise them that they don't have to work outside the home but they can make money to help out.

Maybe because I live in Boston but literally every Mormon I know makes 150k a year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beneath the cheery surface, there is a tremendous amount of fighting over/stressing over money in Mormon families, even *seemingly* affluent ones. You have a culture where women are encouraged not to work and stay home and couples are encouraged to have a lot of kids at an early age. That means that a Mormon man is often supporting a family of 5+ in his 20s and many struggle to do so. But even if they're struggling and fight a lot about money, they'll pretend to have it together.

That's also why so many women are so susceptible to the lure of MLMs which promise them that they don't have to work outside the home but they can make money to help out.

Maybe because I live in Boston but literally every Mormon I know makes 150k a year

I’m guessing you don’t know any Mormons in the west where many are trying to support a sahm and 4 kids on 35k?

[Anonymous]

I mean if you're part of a community and get charity from the church like catholics do maybe its possible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a cult. I mean that literally. They’re nice, but it’s a cult.

Only to the extent that any organized religion is a cult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beneath the cheery surface, there is a tremendous amount of fighting over/stressing over money in Mormon families, even *seemingly* affluent ones. You have a culture where women are encouraged not to work and stay home and couples are encouraged to have a lot of kids at an early age. That means that a Mormon man is often supporting a family of 5+ in his 20s and many struggle to do so. But even if they're struggling and fight a lot about money, they'll pretend to have it together.

That's also why so many women are so susceptible to the lure of MLMs which promise them that they don't have to work outside the home but they can make money to help out.

Maybe because I live in Boston but literally every Mormon I know makes 150k a year

You have a very biased sample. Most Mormons can’t make anywhere near that much. Many don’t have college degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beneath the cheery surface, there is a tremendous amount of fighting over/stressing over money in Mormon families, even *seemingly* affluent ones. You have a culture where women are encouraged not to work and stay home and couples are encouraged to have a lot of kids at an early age. That means that a Mormon man is often supporting a family of 5+ in his 20s and many struggle to do so. But even if they're struggling and fight a lot about money, they'll pretend to have it together.

That's also why so many women are so susceptible to the lure of MLMs which promise them that they don't have to work outside the home but they can make money to help out.

Maybe because I live in Boston but literally every Mormon I know makes 150k a year

Less than a third of Mormons have a four year degree. You really think most of them are making 150k with no degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a cult. I mean that literally. They’re nice, but it’s a cult.

Only to the extent that any organized religion is a cult.

What makes it cult like is the demands on your time, financial exploitation, pressure to rat out your friends who do break rules, compulsory mission service and pressure to avoid outside information, contacts with people or family outside the organization, limits on your diet, dress code and secret insider language. The division between us and them. Criticism of the leadership is never allowed, neither is questioning what your tithe is used for

Anglican and Presbyterians do none of that, nor mainstream religions.

[Anonymous]

You don't have to be Mormon to be nice, eat healthy, treat other people kindly and so on. You can just be human and do those things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know you can be a nice person, eat healthy, be family oriented, and even be a prude without having religious beliefs, right? Just be a better person.

But you don't have the strong community to help you out and support you. I would gladly tithe 10% if I could find a religious community that was tight knit and supportive without all the Mormon beliefs.

Orthodox Jews
Religious Muslims
Zoroastrians
Catholics

Basically any one who takes their religion seriously

Not even close. Religious Muslims and Catholics are a huge group. Perhaps if you were Catholic in a small town or community and your kids went to the parish school. I was raised Catholic and attended our parish school k-8. My neighbors were Mormon. It is a completely different social support network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beneath the cheery surface, there is a tremendous amount of fighting over/stressing over money in Mormon families, even *seemingly* affluent ones. You have a culture where women are encouraged not to work and stay home and couples are encouraged to have a lot of kids at an early age. That means that a Mormon man is often supporting a family of 5+ in his 20s and many struggle to do so. But even if they're struggling and fight a lot about money, they'll pretend to have it together.

That's also why so many women are so susceptible to the lure of MLMs which promise them that they don't have to work outside the home but they can make money to help out.

Maybe because I live in Boston but literally every Mormon I know makes 150k a year

You have a very biased sample. Most Mormons can’t make anywhere near that much. Many don’t have college degrees.

Like I said, I live in Boston near Watertown which is the Mormon area. Every single one I have met is a high achieving professional. Of course, that's biased to whom I know, and the Mormons who move to Boston are usually here for degrees or good jobs.

But I suspect the same thing is going on on this thread. I suspect very few people here are actually familiar with Utah Mormons. We are familiar with the very UC Mormons we meet. I know many people who know Mitt Romney for example and I'm sure he can afford his wife and kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beneath the cheery surface, there is a tremendous amount of fighting over/stressing over money in Mormon families, even *seemingly* affluent ones. You have a culture where women are encouraged not to work and stay home and couples are encouraged to have a lot of kids at an early age. That means that a Mormon man is often supporting a family of 5+ in his 20s and many struggle to do so. But even if they're struggling and fight a lot about money, they'll pretend to have it together.

That's also why so many women are so susceptible to the lure of MLMs which promise them that they don't have to work outside the home but they can make money to help out.

Maybe because I live in Boston but literally every Mormon I know makes 150k a year

You have a very biased sample. Most Mormons can’t make anywhere near that much. Many don’t have college degrees.

Like I said, I live in Boston near Watertown which is the Mormon area. Every single one I have met is a high achieving professional. Of course, that's biased to whom I know, and the Mormons who move to Boston are usually here for degrees or good jobs.

But I suspect the same thing is going on on this thread. I suspect very few people here are actually familiar with Utah Mormons. We are familiar with the very UC Mormons we meet. I know many people who know Mitt Romney for example and I'm sure he can afford his wife and kids.

Only 20 percent of Mormons in America even have a Household Income over over 100 k, about the same as the US population as a whole.

Half have a HHI under 50k and 27 percent have a HHI under 30k.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/