Duke vs. UVA (In-State)?

[Anonymous]

DC's roommate at UVA has a very interesting background and is from California. They are attending two different colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is more like 13th grade judging from my DC's friends. They are all still hanging out with the same people they did in high school. Duke would allow your DC to meet people from all over the US and the world. But kids from the WDC area are already pretty worldly, so it depends on your kid, what connections they have now, and their future plans.

I would not encourage anyone to go to Duke however after what the Gang of 88 did. There's a Town and Gown problem in Durham, but there's also a faculty vs. student problem. I can't speak for UVA, but my DC chose their school based on how supportive and encouraging the faculty members were at accepted students' weekend.

This is why Duke wasn't even on our shopping list. That Gang of 88 is still there.

It was bad, but I think most elite schools would have had faculty respond in a similar way. The elite schools seem to be largely immune to scandal for some reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

That's why I said possible exception. But c'mon, if 100+ kids from the same high school go to the same college chances are there are good friends among them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

You're clueless. UVA has one of the highest graduation rates in the country -- again, higher than Duke -- which is as good a proxy as any for "student care." It also has one of the wealthiest student bodies in America.

Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

You're clueless. UVA has one of the highest graduation rates in the country -- again, higher than Duke -- which is as good a proxy as any for "student care." It also has one of the wealthiest student bodies in America.

Try again.

Is that 1) a good thing? and 2) is it true? New York Times diversity analysis shows UVA at number 79 in median family income, which is high, but not among wealthiest. Colorado College at #1 was at $278K median vs. $156K for UVA. Duke was at $187K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

Last year's US News reputation rankings -- not overall rankings, just reputation -- had Duke tied for 12th and UVA tied for 21st. There was a 3 way tied for 14th and a 4 way tie for 17th, then you're at 21. So the difference between 12 and 21 is actually pretty marginal.

UVA was tied with Vanderbilt, was ahead of Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U and Georgetown, and just behind Dartmouth and Carnegie Mellon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

PP here. I stated Duke is marginally better because 1) a lot of people on this board want to believe that and 2) I wanted to show even if a private college has marginally better ranking, it might be still worth to attend. The gap between Duke and UVa is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

You're clueless. UVA has one of the highest graduation rates in the country -- again, higher than Duke -- which is as good a proxy as any for "student care." It also has one of the wealthiest student bodies in America.

Try again.

Sorry but your posting is clueless. Yes UVa has the high graduation rate. That may mean a good student care. But it may also mean being easy to graduate. Your second point is hard to believe. Most UVa kids I know are from middle class. After all, if money is not an issue, why would you choose UVa over Duke?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

You're clueless. UVA has one of the highest graduation rates in the country -- again, higher than Duke -- which is as good a proxy as any for "student care." It also has one of the wealthiest student bodies in America.

Try again.

Is that 1) a good thing? and 2) is it true? New York Times diversity analysis shows UVA at number 79 in median family income, which is high, but not among wealthiest. Colorado College at #1 was at $278K median vs. $156K for UVA. Duke was at $187K.

Wow, the difference between $187K and $156K is YUGE. That's, what, one vacation to Aspen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

That's why I said possible exception. But c'mon, if 100+ kids from the same high school go to the same college chances are there are good friends among them.

I was agreeing with your point that no one will be bumping into their high school friends every 2 seconds given the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

That's why I said possible exception. But c'mon, if 100+ kids from the same high school go to the same college chances are there are good friends among them.

UVA accepts the top 10% of each class from FCPS. Those kids have generally been together in NHS, test prep depending on the school, and other clubs/activities. So it's very likely that there will be friends who go together to UVA.

All the erratic comments from the UVA crowd are not a good look. Just try and be objective.