Jewish people: how do you view Christianity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

To be clear, the official Reform position is that children of an intermarriage (no conversion) are Jewish, regardless of the gender of the Jewish parent, IF they are raised as Jews, and NOT raised in any other religion. In practice, AFAICT, most Reform shuls look the other way when a child is raised in part in both religions, or does not begin Jewish education until fairly late - this particular slippery slope actually is slippery.

Note that Conservative Judaism (and I believe some Orthodox rabbis) accept the conversion of infants, so this neednt be a problem at all. It IS a problem because typically the Jewish partner in such marriages is not particularly religious, and doesn't take an interest in the matter until time for the child to enter religious school, sometimes not until only a few years before bar/bat mitzvah - at which time its soewhat traumatic to tell a child who has been told they are a Jew, that they are not, and that they must go through a conversion ceremony. So to a great extent this means changing the law for the convenience of people with rather limited personal committment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

Some Jews think we should change Jewish law for the purpose of numbers (again, whether that is even effective, is debatable).

Some people think we should stick to our principles and not play a numbers game.

That is something we, in our movements and our institutions, will have to decide.

[Anonymous]

Here is how I view Christianity.

its a religion with a lot of different "churches"

Each one has its own way of deciding its own dogmas, laws, etc. Catholics have popes and church councils, I guess. Episcopalians have bishops. Congregationalists decide by congregation. Lutherans have synods, whatever those are.

As a Jew, I do not expect a say in what those churches decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

I waNt to be clear that the first poster here, who thinks she speaks for all Jews, is not.

I don’t think you speak for all Jews either, but I don’t see anything objectionable in what was stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

I waNt to be clear that the first poster here, who thinks she speaks for all Jews, is not.

I don’t think you speak for all Jews either, but I don’t see anything objectionable in what was stated.

I see something objectionable—the denial that this family is insisting she change her identity.

[Anonymous]

I think that there is a lot of bias in the contention that the family is asking her to change her identity. A person entering into a relationship is entitled to set boundaries. It sounds like the groom, here, indicated that he is Jewish, wants a Jewish spouse, and wants to raise Jewish children. The bride was aware of these factors, indicated she would voluntarily not identify as a Christian, but identify as a Jew, prior to marriage, and that she would agree to raise her children as Jews. To suggest that she is being made to suppress anything is pretty sexist. She is not the property of her parents or their belief system. She is an independent person who made her own choices. She could have said, I have a Christian identity and it is important to me. She did not. She made a valid choice. She can also change her mind. Given the high rates of divorce in this country, it's very common that religious instruction of children comes up in the context of marriage. Sometimes an angry spouse will try to sabotage the religious education of the child as "revenge."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s possibly your DD has expressed a willingness to explore conversion. Over 1/2 of the Jewish moms I know were raised another religion but converted before marriage or before the birth of a first child.

Yes, she has asked how I would feel about that and worried we would be unhappy. Not at all. I wonder if his parents would be unhappy if he did marry a convert? We are just glad he’s intelligent and successful and is caring to DD. We are going to to meet him next week. Excited. Any advice?

Hi/ Jewish mom here with two Jewish sons. I’m going to give you my honest opinion because you sound like a lovely, caring person and your daughter and her boyfriend seem to have a lot in common. The boyfriend is clearly religious and is probably getting pressure at home over the relationship. Think Jared and Ivanka. Not only did Ivanka convert, she committed to raising her kids in an observant home. They attend Jewish day schools and apparently observe some Shabbat rituals each week.

Your daughter will have to go full throttle on this for it to work. If she’s willing, OK. If she’s not sure, she really needs to think about her future with this man. Judaism isn’t just a religion... there are cultural traditions and little things that bond us. She’ll need to get used to that.

No advice for you- just hope you like him, too! He needs to put his best foot forward as well!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

I’m not the poster above but he/she is correct. Statistics show that the generations following intermarriage are less observant.

What’s the difference between Donald Trump and a reform Jew? Trump has Jewish grandchildren. And yes, Ivanka is Jewish because she converted.

We all want to be accepting and loving and supportive. However, when it comes to this topic, feelings aren’t fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

That's your choice. Religiously a child not born to a Jewish mother is not Jewish unless he is converted (a simple process for a baby). Raising him in the traditions would require accepting this view. I don't really see how one can realistically raise a child in a tradition that isn't one's own anyway. My non-Jewish relatives converted, either formally or de factor, before having children, and participate as fully in the Jewish community as my Jewish-born mother (which granted is not a lot -- Mom doesn't have much use for religion!). If you don't want to do that, that's totally fine and no one wants to force you, but equally they're not going to accept your kids as Jewish because they're not Jewish and not being raised as Jewish. And that is fine. The idea isn't to "pass down traditions," it's for Judaism to continue and flourish, and that will only be done by and through Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

I am sorry for your experience. Of course, it is both not universal (at least two movements Reform at Jewish secular humanist) consider your children Jewish - and not unique (many Orthodox sects do not view Conservative Judaism as a halakhic movement. We should absolutely do more to accept intermarriage and encourage conversion. Of course, it is fine for synagogues to take a position that children in their religious schools should be being raised Jewish. I think Catholics so the same thing.

I waNt to be clear that the first poster here, who thinks she speaks for all Jews, is not.

I don’t think you speak for all Jews either, but I don’t see anything objectionable in what was stated.

I see something objectionable—the denial that this family is insisting she change her identity.

Where do you see that they are? It's her choice. No one's forcing her. She can say no. She can choose not to marry him. He can choose not to marry her. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

I’m not the poster above but he/she is correct. Statistics show that the generations following intermarriage are less observant.

What’s the difference between Donald Trump and a reform Jew? Trump has Jewish grandchildren. And yes, Ivanka is Jewish because she converted.

We all want to be accepting and loving and supportive. However, when it comes to this topic, feelings aren’t fact.

Ivanka may have converted but she sure doesn't behave like any Orthodox Jewish woman I know. Galivanting around on Shabbat, wearing immodest (in a religious sense) clothing. And I am basing this judgment on her behavior, not the fact that she's a convert. For that matter her husband sure doesn't seem to espouse much in the way of Jewish values. As a Jew I can't claim them with any pride, and as for Stephen Miller, I am ashamed that a fellow Jew could be so despicable and insensitive to our long history as the outsider, the immigrant, and the reviled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

according to traditional Jewish law, which determines Jewish status for Orthodox and Conservative Jews, your child is NOT Jewish. Within Reform, and to a lesser degree Conservative, we have had extensive discussion of the impact of different approaches to intermarriage and which are better or worse for increasing the number of children raised as Jews.

Your position is understandable.

But as a matter of numbers, the Jewish movement that is growing fastest is Orthodoxy. Its not at all clear that altering Jewish law for the purpose of making unconverted intermarried couples more likely to raise their kids as Jewish is actually a winning strategy.

I can tell you that this attitude almost definitively is to thank for one fewer child being raised in Jewish traditions .... so congratulations?

I’m not the poster above but he/she is correct. Statistics show that the generations following intermarriage are less observant.

What’s the difference between Donald Trump and a reform Jew? Trump has Jewish grandchildren. And yes, Ivanka is Jewish because she converted.

We all want to be accepting and loving and supportive. However, when it comes to this topic, feelings aren’t fact.

Based on my experience, the generations following intermarriage are less observant in large part due to prejudice against intermarriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

That's your choice. Religiously a child not born to a Jewish mother is not Jewish unless he is converted (a simple process for a baby). Raising him in the traditions would require accepting this view. I don't really see how one can realistically raise a child in a tradition that isn't one's own anyway. My non-Jewish relatives converted, either formally or de factor, before having children, and participate as fully in the Jewish community as my Jewish-born mother (which granted is not a lot -- Mom doesn't have much use for religion!). If you don't want to do that, that's totally fine and no one wants to force you, but equally they're not going to accept your kids as Jewish because they're not Jewish and not being raised as Jewish. And that is fine. The idea isn't to "pass down traditions," it's for Judaism to continue and flourish, and that will only be done by and through Jews.

My "non-Jewish" kid is the grandchild of Holocaust survivors. To call him "not a Jew" is just gross and wrong. But yeah, thanks again for confirming that the prejudice/disdain I feel whenever I try to take some initiative to participate is real. Congratulations on creating one less Jew. So now I will teach him that he is not Jew, and we will guilt-free celebrate Christmas and Easter, and I'll stop making the effort to celebrate Passover.

Happy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people here are not getting the point. She's not being asked to suppress her own identity. She is saying she is no longer going to practice Christianity or identify as a Christian. She is changing her identity. Many young people to not identify with a particular religion. Part of being an adult is forging one's own identify. A parent's identity is a parent's identity. Judaism is a tribe. We have people of all skin tones in our tribe. We have members of our tribe that have joined from other religions. We have members our tribe that were cut-off from mainstream Judaism and have different traditions as a result. All are valid members of our tribe. But our tribe is a small one. And we lose many members of our tribe every year due to our graying population, antisemitism, and, in some cases, intermarriage. It is difficult for a members of a majority culture to comprehend why passing our traditions on to our children is important - it is the continuation of our tribe. It's not selfish, it's not meant suppress anyone - it's a consequence of millennia of persecution, and existing as a minority. This woman's daughter is adult and she is free to make her own choices. For Jews, the fear is always that there is children will leave Judaism and become Christians (or another faith), meaning that the Jewish end of their family's history ends with them - that the line between generations is extinguished. It's painful. And it's not the same as when a Lutheran becomes a Baptist.

Speaking as the non-Jewish wife ... if you really want to continue to pass down traditions, then you need to be more accepting of intermarriage. I've been told many times that my child "is not Jewish." So do you think I'm going to make much effort to raise him in those traditions? No, I am not.

That's your choice. Religiously a child not born to a Jewish mother is not Jewish unless he is converted (a simple process for a baby). Raising him in the traditions would require accepting this view. I don't really see how one can realistically raise a child in a tradition that isn't one's own anyway. My non-Jewish relatives converted, either formally or de factor, before having children, and participate as fully in the Jewish community as my Jewish-born mother (which granted is not a lot -- Mom doesn't have much use for religion!). If you don't want to do that, that's totally fine and no one wants to force you, but equally they're not going to accept your kids as Jewish because they're not Jewish and not being raised as Jewish. And that is fine. The idea isn't to "pass down traditions," it's for Judaism to continue and flourish, and that will only be done by and through Jews.

My "non-Jewish" kid is the grandchild of Holocaust survivors. To call him "not a Jew" is just gross and wrong. But yeah, thanks again for confirming that the prejudice/disdain I feel whenever I try to take some initiative to participate is real. Congratulations on creating one less Jew. So now I will teach him that he is not Jew, and we will guilt-free celebrate Christmas and Easter, and I'll stop making the effort to celebrate Passover.

Happy?

It is possible to be a non Jewish grandchild of holocaust survivors.

Reform Judaism does not call him not a Jew, if he has been raised as a Jew.

But the movements that follow traditional Jewish law on this (C and O) do not consider him a Jew. To you traditional Jewish law, which existed for thousands of years before the holocaust is gross and wrong. Note, from their perspective they are NOT creating one less Jew - they are creating one less gentile who thinks they are a Jew.


Note, I know intermarried people whose children ARE Jews by Jewish law (IE the mother is Jewish, or the child was converted) who participate actively in Consevative shuls. And of course ones where the mother is not Jewish and neither the mother nor the child converted who participate actively in Reform shuls.

I do not know what community you attempted to participate in, and cannot say anything about it.

I personally do not feel I have standing to judge the determinations of status of religions to which I do not belong.

I also do not make major life decisions based on comments by anon people on DCUM.

But you do you, as the saying goes.