Jewish people: how do you view Christianity?
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Anonymous
I knew a few Messanic Jews in college. All were from ethnically Jewish families. Is that not the norm? |
Anonymous
My cousin was Jewish at birth and is now Messianic, so no doubt he’s among others like him. But there’s a big Messianic church in my area in the Midwest, where there are very, very few other Jews, so I doubt their members were Jews from the start. I agree with what PP said: you can not be Jewish and believe in Jesus as the messiah. Those two things are contradictory. |
Anonymous
How will you know the messiah if you are waiting for him? If religious Jews are still awaiting a messiah, do they believe he will be a military leader? Do you ever wonder if a non-military leader proclaims himself the messiah, Jews will go “This again?!?” and ignore him? |
Anonymous
As a Reform Jew, I don’t believe in a single “messiah.” Instead, Reform Jews believe in a messianic age when justice will be restored in the world to come. That’s why one of our basic tenets is tikkun olam, or work to heal the world. It comes from all of us, not from one person. |
Anonymous
What about your Orthodox counterparts? |
Anonymous
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To the OP: It sounds like your daughter is dating an Orthodox Jew, based on the facts that he covers his head, keeps kosher, and regularly attends synagogue. Those are all activities I associate with a stricter level of observance. I say this as a Jew associated with Conservative movement (which is "in-between" the Reform and Orthodox movements).
It is unusual for Orthodox Jews to date outside of their faith. If they are serious, I guess they are discussing conversion. Since he is Orthodox, he would require an Orthodox conversion (I guess) for your daughter. If I'm wrong, then disregard the below. The conversion would be a multi year process with the goal of having her live as an orthodox Jew before they marry. This would require her to keep kosher, attend synagogue regularly, keep the Sabbath, and so on. Keeping kosher probably means no eating food you have cooked at your home. It would probably also mean no celebrating Christmas or Easter with you, although that depends on the rabbi overseeing the conversion. I'm glad to hear that you are keeping an open mind and are focused on your daughters happiness. I have found that most Christians are not familiar with the level of commitment required by Orthodox Judaism and so wanted to share the above with you. I would encourage you to keep learning about this issue if your daughter pursues this path. |
Anonymous
PP agnostic former catholic that’s pretty much what I thought you’d say. It feels like such a mental dichotomy that I can’t even understand it. It’s like if I say I’m a lesbian but I only have sex with men |
Anonymous
Unfortunately, I’m not as learned in the specifics of Orthodoxy (or in the messianic beliefs of Conservative or Reconstructionist Jews), so I’d have to do the same research as you. I can only speak for myself and my beliefs. |
Anonymous
DP. Can’t speak for orthodox but every so often there are hassidic groups who believe their rebbe is the messiah (in Hebrew, moshiach). Since the world is still pretty crappy most everyone else disagrees with them. |
Anonymous
This is very common. |
Anonymous
There is only one such example I now of, its Menachem Schneerson, the late Lubavitcher Rebbe. And the mainstream Chabad organizations do not consider him to have been moshiach - its a breakaway (albeit quite large) group of Chabadniks, mostly in Brooklyn, who do. It is simply not routine for chassidic groups to consider their leaders to be moshiach. |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It’s possibly your DD has expressed a willingness to explore conversion. Over 1/2 of the Jewish moms I know were raised another religion but converted before marriage or before the birth of a first child.
[/quote] Yes, she has asked how I would feel about that and worried we would be unhappy. Not at all. I wonder if his parents would be unhappy if he did marry a convert? We are just glad he’s intelligent and successful and is caring to DD. We are going to to meet him next week. Excited. Any advice? [/quote] They’d be a lot happier if she converts than if she doesn’t. Are you truly ok with it? With your grandkids not celebrating Christmas or Easter? Not that it’s really up to you anyway, of course. I am Jewish and grew up among lots of Christians, attending an episcopal day school. I’m very “live and let live” and comfortable being a minority. I don’t care for proselytizing. Other than that, I have no particular feelings toward any Christian sect. Anecdotally I’ve met a lot of lovely Mormons. From a historical and anthropological view I think Christianity has given a lot to the world. It’s core tenets are lovely and a real departure from the “eye for an eye” mentality that reigned 2000 years ago. In the modern day I’m not fond of hypocrites of any religion so I have thiughts on evangelicals in politics, but on a personal level I take people as they come and I think most people do the same. I don’t think most Jews look down on Christians if that’s what you’re asking. But there are still many negative views associated with intermarriage. If your daughter converts it will not be intermarriage though. [/quote] I absolutely have zero problems if she decides to convert and they marry. I suspect that may be on the horizon, but as pp said, I am not going to rush in and assume anything or be overly supportive when it’s just dinner. And yes, he is from NYC and his family has money and I am sort of worried if they ever did marry, his mom or family may not like a convert DIL. My aunt had to convert to Catholicism and promise to raise their children Catholic when she married my Catholic uncle. Her MIL was always cold and rude and mean to her, even though she did as they demanded before they would “support” their marriage. I would never intrude on the raising of any possible grandchild. I know also he wears a kippa, my daughter says it’s something he wears everyday and very small and I won’t even notice it because it’s tiny and he’s taller. I just want to go to the dinner and be appropriate at this point. [/quote] I am asking this sincerely: Have you never met a Jewish person before? I'm not sure I really understand what the question or the issue is here. What are you worried is going to happen at this dinner? I'm a secular Jew. My impression of Christians overall is that there's a lot of them and it's hard to make generalizations. I find it *amusing* when they insist their religious traditions are in fact just American traditions. (No, I don't have a Christmas tree. I'm not Christian.) I find it less amusing when they seek to deny others rights that they feel their gd does not want us to hold - I wish they didn't have such outsized influence on politics or culture. But - it's like asking my impression of brown haired people. Hard to make generalizations about such a big group. |
Anonymous
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OP
I am a Conservative Jew. I do not consider Christianity "true" or a good interpretation of Judaism. I do recognize that it has created many specific cultural products I value, from the medieval cathedrals to the music of JS Bach. What western civilization would have looked like without it I do not know. History is what it is. I am more interested in Christianity today. Not in its theology, but in what its followers do in the world. Sadly some take positions on social issues that I consider dangerously reactionary, while some who are progressive on those issues take what I consider to be unfairly unsympathetic positions towards the State of Israel. I am gladdened by the domestic social activism of many Christian churches, and hope that can be reconciled with support for a two state solution in the ME involving a democratic Israel that has civil rights for all its citizens will also being the nation state of the Jewish people, living in peace alongside a Palestinian state. OTOH I would like to see more evangelical churches taking progressive stands - I note some have, on issues from immigration to climate change. I happen to like Cory Booker and Mayor Buttigieg, who are trying to affirm the best of Christian involvement in society. I would not want my DCs to marry Christians. In addition to something that is strongly against Jewish law, it would I believe create problems for them in their personal observance and identity, and I want to have unambiguously Jewish grandchildren (keneinehara). I would have no problems if they were to marry gentiles who converted to Judaism of course. And I recognize that, however you raise someone, even with knowledge and commitment to Judaism, the heart goes where it goes, which is why some observant Jews do end up marrying gentiles who are not interested in converting. |
Anonymous
| Christianity, historically, has been unkind to Jews (and Judaism). Putting that aside, I would say I am skeptical of philo-semitism among evangelical sects (they seem to view history as a four-act play where Jews die in the third act), concerned about antisemitism, sometimes disguised as anti-Zionism among the religious Christian left, annoyed by Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses when they try to convert me (especially annoyed by Mormons when they want to convert my dead relatives), detest "Jews for Jesus" above all others, view Unitarianism and Quakerism as akin to Reform Judaism without the Hebrew, find Catholic and Episcopal rituals and liturgical music beautiful, etc. I try not to judge people on their religion but as people. Anyone who wants to join our tribe is welcome. Intermarriage in our community is a challenge. Personally, I think we should lower the bar to conversion and encourage conversion. |
Anonymous
This. And if he is affiliated with the conservative movement, theoretically it is around the same although some of the eating issues would be more overcomable. Also, I read your concern that she would not be accepted by theoretical in-laws. This is not something to worry about just because of the conversion issue. Jews by Choice (aka converts) are fully accepted into Jewish life (in nearly every community, certainly the conservative and centrist orthodox communities...although there are some politics where are not really germane to your question...and the answer is different if he is from a syrian Jewish family because their community doesn't accept any converts...but this is a tiny population), and they are not supposed to be 'outed' as having converted. (It is now much more fashionable/accepted to talk about the fact you converted; it was like not discussed in communities a long time ago). If your inlaws are having issues, they are much more likely to be based on personality or other issues. Intercultural dating/marriage is not always easy. The short answer to my question is that if your daughter comes across to them as sincere about her love of their son, her goodness as a person, and the fact that she has genuinely decided to convert and cast her lot as a member of the Jewish people-- they would not 'think less' of her etc. |