My nephew wants to join the military. I think only suckers agree to fight Republican wars. Advice?

[Anonymous]

"But lots of physician assistants and other professionals are in the DC area that started out enlisted."

So these are the brilliant unicorns? If a person wants to be a physician assistant aren't the odds of becoming one much greater if she goes to college and studies to be this than if she joins the military and hopes to get assigned this career path? I've worked in health care and I've never once met a PA who started her career in the military. The military is hardly the main path to this job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"But lots of physician assistants and other professionals are in the DC area that started out enlisted."

So these are the brilliant unicorns? If a person wants to be a physician assistant aren't the odds of becoming one much greater if she goes to college and studies to be this than if she joins the military and hopes to get assigned this career path? I've worked in health care and I've never once met a PA who started her career in the military. The military is hardly the main path to this job.

I think it’s people with an attitude like yours that reinforces a feeling in those who’ve been in the military that they are better than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"But lots of physician assistants and other professionals are in the DC area that started out enlisted."

So these are the brilliant unicorns? If a person wants to be a physician assistant aren't the odds of becoming one much greater if she goes to college and studies to be this than if she joins the military and hopes to get assigned this career path? I've worked in health care and I've never once met a PA who started her career in the military. The military is hardly the main path to this job.

I use military health care. I've only seen a few PA's. Most of them are young enlisted assigned on a rotating basis and often not by choice. They do a lot of the taking vitals, cleaning the rooms and the very basic work. In the navy, its assigned when they are not on the ships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that in elite Republican circles (donors, politicians, lobbyists, think tanks, the people that control the party) they absolutely do denigrate the people who enlist in the military as stupid. Usually it’s just to lump them in with the other “useful fools” in the GOP base that they can control by controlling the news media and preachers.

But the people who start the wars do look down on people in the military as not being very smart. (As mentioned above: there’s a reason few politicans’ kids are in the military today. It was different 50 years ago.)

Not true. You're projecting. The only people I've ever heard denigrate men and women who join the military are Democrats.

Twice as many Republicans as Democrats in Congress were in the military themselves. It's about 18 percent of the Congress, total (vs. 12.7 percent of the total US population over 18 that are veterans).

96 total veterans in the 116th Congress.
30 are Democrats, 66 are Republicans.
19 will serve in the Senate, 77 will serve in the House.
48 served in the military after 2000.
21 served in the military in the 1960s or earlier.
19 are first-time lawmakers.
7 are women.
50 served in the Army, Army Reserve or Army National Guard.
17 served in the Marine Corps or Marine Corps Reserve.
17 served in the Air Force, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard.
13 served in the Navy or Naval Reserve.
1 served in the Coast Guard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you people suggesting the OP pay for college - what makes you think the nephew is college material? I'd bet he isn't, and is looking at scrambling to find a minimum wage job, or enlisting in the service. I know which option I'm choose - and I'm as liberal as they come.

Virtually anyone who can pass an asvab can get in to community college at a minimum. It's a safe bet that OP's nephew is college material by the sheer fact that he's been accepted to the military. Most kids don't qualify for the military- they bomb the test, they have a criminal background, they have a medical issue, they have a pattern of discipline issues, or they are fat.

Most qualify but with the increase in drug use, that's going to be a huge issue. Army and Marines are much more flexible.

Most young adults do not qualify. According to the news article in the link, 71 % of young adults do not qualify to join the military.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/

That is a fluff article that has more to do with early education than anything.

Okay then, here is an article that says the same thing but not in as fluffy of a way:

https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-looming-national-security-crisis-young-americans-unable-serve-the-military

[Anonymous]

I think the person who posted as the military being an entry point to a career as a physician assistant meant an actual "physician assistant" and not an assistant in a medical setting who cleans rooms. Big difference and the pay is very different.

https://explorehealthcareers.org/career/medicine/physician-assistant/

To become a physician assistant you need a 4-yr BS or BA with lots of science coursework, then it's a 2-yr grad school program.

So again, I ask whether anybody actually knows this unicorn PA or the anesthesiologist (requires MD or DO degree) who back at age 18 decided to forego college and instead enlisted in the military.

I seriously want to know because I still see kids joining the military based on what seems to me to be a misrepresentation by recruiters about how the army is going to send them to college and pay for it. It seems to me that the army or other military branch will possibly pay for training that may happen in a college setting if that will benefit the army. (I'm not referring to the people with a BA or BS or BSN who join after getting their undergraduate degree and then get the military to pay for law school or med/nursing school, since these people are not at all in the same situation as the kids just leaving high school with no credentials.) It's not like if you want to be a high school English or Journalism teacher, you can join the Marines and then they'll pay for you to major in English Literature and get a teaching credential. Or am I wrong?

[Anonymous]

To the OP--

I've been in your shoes. I recommend not saying a word about your political views on the wars we're currently engaged in. I do think it's worth noting to the young person that we are indeed sending soldiers to war zones and they are still coming home wounded or dead. It would be great if you could take the nephew to visit a place like Walter Reed where they could see the outcomes. Or maybe back in his hometown, there is a rehab facility he could visit, or mental health clinic that is treating the young people who had no life skills before they enlisted at age 18 and then returned home at 22 without legs, or suffering from PTSD. Not a good way to start life.

I'd explore the young person's motivation for thinking this might be a good idea. This will enable you to share alternatives to how to reach his goals that don't involve as much risk and that might get him to his goal sooner. I didn't see any mention of your sibling's education level, so perhaps the nephew hasn't been informed by his parent about other life options.

And I'd point out that although many Members of Congress served in the military, and some even did so during wars, I don't think there are any whose own children joined straight out high school. Some of their children joined as officers. But that is entirely different from signing up to be the grunt that gets blown up. I believe Beau Biden joined after he already had his law degree. And I would explain why people who have a choice don't join straight out of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't read the thread but . . .
I'm a baby boomer liberal but OP's topic left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not all "God Bless the USA" and I disagree with people who insist that sacrifice of life and health is never wasted. That's not what Pat Tillman came to think, and he and his family were pretty bitter about how the Bush admin exploited his service when he enlisted and later when he was killed.

I was an older than average returning college student in my early 30s and met many vets who were going to school after military service, both when I was an undergrad and when I was a TA. I found them to be very impressive people--there was a professor at my undergrad school who was a former ambassador from Sierra Leone and highly regarded by his students. At the time of the first Gulf War he had them studying the articles of the UN in the context of the lead-up, and I'd listen in to their discussions in the union when I was doing my own homework.

I have friends from my earlier college career who were all very left wing, we were freshmen when Watergate went from simmer to boil, and many of them have kids who joined the military. One classmate joined the Marines while an undergrad--we gave him a lot of crap about that, but his goal was the law and he became a military judge and later a civilian law professor and law school dean. Other college friends also went into the military because of career aspirations.

There have always been people drawn to the principles of service, including military service, having little or nothing to do with who is running the show politically at a given time. The military needs people like that--people who are there because of principles of service rather than because of a particular ideology.

Comments like the bolded, and schools that ban shirts with the US flag, and people kneeling during the anthem..... these things are symbolic of what is happening in this country. Since when is bad to a proud US citizen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a military "town" and my dad was Air Force as a civilian and reservist. I have never once seen somebody who could get a scholarship to at least a local state school join the military and have the military pay for a 4-yr college degree. Can somebody explain if this actually ever happens or if it's just something that the 1 in a million high school recruit who is brilliant will ever experience? I do know plenty of people who got college degrees and then joined as officers.

Does the friend of the anesthesiologist really not understand that 18-yr-olds who join the military aren't ever going to become physicians through the military?

As I said, my dad was military. He did everything in his power to make sure that none of his kids or nieces and nephews joined the military instead of going to college. He did it for 35 years, but as a person of color growing up at that time, he had no other career options. He knew that was as good as it would get. He's naturally great with numbers and spatial reasoning and ended up working in a job where he developed the skills of an engineer. Without a college degree he actually helped me with physics and calculus in high school. But had he been born at another time, or into a different race, he would have entered college and become an actual engineer with the money and prestige that comes with that. Despite his skills, it's not like the Air Force was going to pay for him to get the official credentials of an engineer. The only reason to go straight into the military out of high school is because you have no other options.

I don’t know what era this was or where. But lots of physician assistants and other professionals are in the DC area that started out enlisted.

If enlisted get an education in a good career field they can do very well, like my husband. Military was his only option. However, most enlisted are pushed to get a degree, any degree for advancement and they get random degrees vs. ones that will lead to an outside job as no one really councils them on it and those degrees are pretty worthless which is why you see many going into sales and other jobs. Being enlisted is very hard. I would fully support my kids to join but only after they have their degrees as officers.

My oldest enlisted in the Army National Guard right out of high school. Army paid 100% of his college tuition. Plus housing. Plus Guard pay. He made E6, graduated, and was commissioned through OCS. Army paid for his Masters. He is now an instructor of military science at a huge SEC school. And an 03

My second got an ROTC scholarship. Everything was paid for. Tuition, books, housing, fees, food, ... Plus he got $600 a month extra. He is an 02 (LT) with the 82nd Airborne.

My third joined the Air Force right out of high school. No interest in college at the time. It was by far the best thing for her. She grew up so much in the four years she served. She is a college junior now. College is paid for by the post 9/11 GI Bill. Housing included.

Three different paths. All worked out really well. If your nephew wants to serve his country, good for him! My dad is a retired General. It’s not a bad life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a military "town" and my dad was Air Force as a civilian and reservist. I have never once seen somebody who could get a scholarship to at least a local state school join the military and have the military pay for a 4-yr college degree. Can somebody explain if this actually ever happens or if it's just something that the 1 in a million high school recruit who is brilliant will ever experience? I do know plenty of people who got college degrees and then joined as officers.

Does the friend of the anesthesiologist really not understand that 18-yr-olds who join the military aren't ever going to become physicians through the military?

As I said, my dad was military. He did everything in his power to make sure that none of his kids or nieces and nephews joined the military instead of going to college. He did it for 35 years, but as a person of color growing up at that time, he had no other career options. He knew that was as good as it would get. He's naturally great with numbers and spatial reasoning and ended up working in a job where he developed the skills of an engineer. Without a college degree he actually helped me with physics and calculus in high school. But had he been born at another time, or into a different race, he would have entered college and become an actual engineer with the money and prestige that comes with that. Despite his skills, it's not like the Air Force was going to pay for him to get the official credentials of an engineer. The only reason to go straight into the military out of high school is because you have no other options.

If you agree to a contract with the Army Reserve and National Guard upon graduating, there are SO many scholarships out there. They can't even give them away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a military "town" and my dad was Air Force as a civilian and reservist. I have never once seen somebody who could get a scholarship to at least a local state school join the military and have the military pay for a 4-yr college degree. Can somebody explain if this actually ever happens or if it's just something that the 1 in a million high school recruit who is brilliant will ever experience? I do know plenty of people who got college degrees and then joined as officers.

Does the friend of the anesthesiologist really not understand that 18-yr-olds who join the military aren't ever going to become physicians through the military?

As I said, my dad was military. He did everything in his power to make sure that none of his kids or nieces and nephews joined the military instead of going to college. He did it for 35 years, but as a person of color growing up at that time, he had no other career options. He knew that was as good as it would get. He's naturally great with numbers and spatial reasoning and ended up working in a job where he developed the skills of an engineer. Without a college degree he actually helped me with physics and calculus in high school. But had he been born at another time, or into a different race, he would have entered college and become an actual engineer with the money and prestige that comes with that. Despite his skills, it's not like the Air Force was going to pay for him to get the official credentials of an engineer. The only reason to go straight into the military out of high school is because you have no other options.

I don’t know what era this was or where. But lots of physician assistants and other professionals are in the DC area that started out enlisted.

If enlisted get an education in a good career field they can do very well, like my husband. Military was his only option. However, most enlisted are pushed to get a degree, any degree for advancement and they get random degrees vs. ones that will lead to an outside job as no one really councils them on it and those degrees are pretty worthless which is why you see many going into sales and other jobs. Being enlisted is very hard. I would fully support my kids to join but only after they have their degrees as officers.

My oldest enlisted in the Army National Guard right out of high school. Army paid 100% of his college tuition. Plus housing. Plus Guard pay. He made E6, graduated, and was commissioned through OCS. Army paid for his Masters. He is now an instructor of military science at a huge SEC school. And an 03

My second got an ROTC scholarship. Everything was paid for. Tuition, books, housing, fees, food, ... Plus he got $600 a month extra. He is an 02 (LT) with the 82nd Airborne.

My third joined the Air Force right out of high school. No interest in college at the time. It was by far the best thing for her. She grew up so much in the four years she served. She is a college junior now. College is paid for by the post 9/11 GI Bill. Housing included.

Three different paths. All worked out really well. If your nephew wants to serve his country, good for him! My dad is a retired General. It’s not a bad life.

Exactly. The misinformation here is ridiculous. I suppose we can keep it our secret how good it is. Sure. It can be punctuated by difficult assignments, but so do all cool careers they involve some adventure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the person who posted as the military being an entry point to a career as a physician assistant meant an actual "physician assistant" and not an assistant in a medical setting who cleans rooms. Big difference and the pay is very different.

https://explorehealthcareers.org/career/medicine/physician-assistant/

To become a physician assistant you need a 4-yr BS or BA with lots of science coursework, then it's a 2-yr grad school program.

So again, I ask whether anybody actually knows this unicorn PA or the anesthesiologist (requires MD or DO degree) who back at age 18 decided to forego college and instead enlisted in the military.

I seriously want to know because I still see kids joining the military based on what seems to me to be a misrepresentation by recruiters about how the army is going to send them to college and pay for it. It seems to me that the army or other military branch will possibly pay for training that may happen in a college setting if that will benefit the army. (I'm not referring to the people with a BA or BS or BSN who join after getting their undergraduate degree and then get the military to pay for law school or med/nursing school, since these people are not at all in the same situation as the kids just leaving high school with no credentials.) It's not like if you want to be a high school English or Journalism teacher, you can join the Marines and then they'll pay for you to major in English Literature and get a teaching credential. Or am I wrong?

Military does pay for college. My husband went via the military and got his degree BUT it took many years as its not easy to do an be active duty (especially with a family).

I have seen one PA in all the many years of military health care. There are very few. Good half the doctors are residents and you don't even get to see a licensed doctor.

Many get the crappy hospital jobs of cleaning up the rooms, patient intake (taking vitals) and other very basic stuff. I know several doctors who got their medical and other degrees while active duty but when you look at the entire population most are like my husband who had crappy jobs.

[Anonymous]

There is a pretty simple solution OP - pay for college, community college or trade school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that in elite Republican circles (donors, politicians, lobbyists, think tanks, the people that control the party) they absolutely do denigrate the people who enlist in the military as stupid. Usually it’s just to lump them in with the other “useful fools” in the GOP base that they can control by controlling the news media and preachers.

But the people who start the wars do look down on people in the military as not being very smart. (As mentioned above: there’s a reason few politicans’ kids are in the military today. It was different 50 years ago.)

Not true. You're projecting. The only people I've ever heard denigrate men and women who join the military are Democrats.

Twice as many Republicans as Democrats in Congress were in the military themselves. It's about 18 percent of the Congress, total (vs. 12.7 percent of the total US population over 18 that are veterans).

96 total veterans in the 116th Congress.
30 are Democrats, 66 are Republicans.
19 will serve in the Senate, 77 will serve in the House.
48 served in the military after 2000.
21 served in the military in the 1960s or earlier.
19 are first-time lawmakers.
7 are women.
50 served in the Army, Army Reserve or Army National Guard.
17 served in the Marine Corps or Marine Corps Reserve.
17 served in the Air Force, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard.
13 served in the Navy or Naval Reserve.
1 served in the Coast Guard.

Not true. Go read the Political Forum. The Rs tear down McCain as a “bad” soldier, Buttigieg as a wimp, and anyone with a “lesser” job like a technician as worthless. They crap all over people in the military if they weren’t deployed multiple times to active war zones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that in elite Republican circles (donors, politicians, lobbyists, think tanks, the people that control the party) they absolutely do denigrate the people who enlist in the military as stupid. Usually it’s just to lump them in with the other “useful fools” in the GOP base that they can control by controlling the news media and preachers.

But the people who start the wars do look down on people in the military as not being very smart. (As mentioned above: there’s a reason few politicans’ kids are in the military today. It was different 50 years ago.)

Not true. You're projecting. The only people I've ever heard denigrate men and women who join the military are Democrats.

Twice as many Republicans as Democrats in Congress were in the military themselves. It's about 18 percent of the Congress, total (vs. 12.7 percent of the total US population over 18 that are veterans).

96 total veterans in the 116th Congress.
30 are Democrats, 66 are Republicans.
19 will serve in the Senate, 77 will serve in the House.
48 served in the military after 2000.
21 served in the military in the 1960s or earlier.
19 are first-time lawmakers.
7 are women.
50 served in the Army, Army Reserve or Army National Guard.
17 served in the Marine Corps or Marine Corps Reserve.
17 served in the Air Force, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard.
13 served in the Navy or Naval Reserve.
1 served in the Coast Guard.

Not true. Go read the Political Forum. The Rs tear down McCain as a “bad” soldier, Buttigieg as a wimp, and anyone with a “lesser” job like a technician as worthless. They crap all over people in the military if they weren’t deployed multiple times to active war zones.

The only people I've *ever* heard denigrate the military are liberals. Especially on this site. So many ugly comments regarding those who serve our country. It's really too bad the military has to protect all U.S. citizens, because there are some who deserve no protection whatsoever.
-DP