My nephew wants to join the military. I think only suckers agree to fight Republican wars. Advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I said “Republican wars”, but I should have said “misguided wars that were never honestly discussed with the American people.”

Our country needs a strong military. But why would anyone choose to join a military that fights wars based on lies? Vietnam was bad enough; at least rich peoples’ kids fought in that one. But Iraq? Now maybe Iran?

I would have a much different opinion if Republicans had come out after 2008 and said “Iraq was a mistake. Thousands of Americans died for no reason. And trillions were wasted that could have improved our bridges, education, and roads. And now we are going to have a full national discussion of how we made that mistake and how to never make that mistake again.”

But now we are sliding towards another war in Iran for no reason. No one should sign up to support that.

No. YOU shouldn't sign up to support that. Other people can do what they want, and it is incredibly condescending of you to think you know their motivations for serving or that they are making a right or wrong choice. Service members have been fighting ill-advised wars forever. There's more to it than that. Military people aren't stupid. They know what they're getting into, they know about the politics involved, they know what they are sacrificing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with using the term vet is it could mean the person served one day, 20+ years to retirement or anything in between. I don't really think much of those who served a few years in less they were in active combat as a spouse of a retiree. Most I know in that situation use it as bragging rights vs. most retirees I know rarely mention it in less it comes up.

You don’t think much of vets who just served a few years unless they were in active combat?

Are you a Trump supporter?

No, absolutely not. But those who served a few months or a few years stateside had a very different experience. I get sick of listening to people who served a few years doing a basic job brag about the good old days in the military. You don't seem to understand its a very different kind of service and I think its offensive that they get the same benefits as those who were injured in combat or served 10+ years.

Someone please correct me if I’m missing something, but are veterans eligible for lifetime benefits (health insurance, etc) if they served stateside for 4-5 years and never saw combat? That seems like a huge expense.

No, they are generally not eligible for VA health care benefits in this case. Only if you were medically discharged, served in combat, receive disability, or some other one offs. The average veteran who served under 20 and did not deploy does not receive VA health care.

And to the poster with a checklist veterans must meet to earn respect...I don't think much of you, either.

[Anonymous]

I know this is an old thread. But they aren't Republican wars or Democrat wars. They are American wars. Regardless of your political affiliation, views, feelings etc., you can support troops without showing an affinity to the President. In times of peace their willingness to serve preserves peace and makes us less vulnerable. In times of war they are there to do prevent and participate in events/actions that are typically nothing less than horrific. The fact that OP can't separate soldiers willingness to serve from some leaders political agendas, shows a lack of rational think or just immaturity. The reverse is true as well, I can't stand it when people says "if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops". One can most certainly support troops without supporting the war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is from a red area.
He is thinking about joining the military. He (and his Mom) think that this a good way to improve himself.

But we’ve seen what’s happened with our military over the past two decades: a useless war in Iraq, boosted by neocons and for profit of guys like Cheney and Erik Prince. Inability to rebuild Afghanistan, which Bush failed to have an endgame for and got us stuck in it for decades. An endless war on terror initiatiated by the same for-profit republicans, that has created terrorists abroad who hate us. (To be fair, fighting terror is important. But sacrificing our values with Guantanamo, CIA-endorsed torture with no accountability, and unConstitutional domestic wiretaps without following the correct process were major errors.)

In all these misguided conflicts, thousands of American lives were wasted. Truly wasted, though no politician will say so. And the people killed are largely from red states. People in cities largely saw through Bush’s lies and stayed out of fighting. Turns out: they were right.

Now a war in Iran looms. Why would anyone agree to fight that stupid, useless war, run by idiots like Bolton who haven’t learned the mistakes of Iraq?

I have hinted at all this to my nephew. But I’m worried about him. I want to say “Don’t be a sucker. If there is a war in Iran created by the GOP, you’ll fight it and you’ll be throwing away your life for no reason.”

Don’t tell me to stay out of it. I’m close to him and to his dad. The only question is, how do I reach him with the truth? What’s the best strategy to break through the lies he hears all around him in he place he lives? What’s the best approach?

So, uh, fairly prescient there.

Except Bolton’s not around anymore. And he was probably the MOST sane person in the room. That is crazy.

If and when Americans die because of this (Iran will retaliate at some point), think about how everyone will feel about having a corrupt moron in the Oval Office. There’s at least as much chance the president was bribed to do this as he thought it would help him with domestic politics.

Let’s just hope Iran doesn’t decide to shoot down a few American airliners in retaliation. But expect some sort of civilian attack by Iran’s proxies. Good thing we have a president bought by autocrats, GOP! Hope that tax cut for your donors was worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is from a red area.
He is thinking about joining the military. He (and his Mom) think that this a good way to improve himself.

But we’ve seen what’s happened with our military over the past two decades: a useless war in Iraq, boosted by neocons and for profit of guys like Cheney and Erik Prince. Inability to rebuild Afghanistan, which Bush failed to have an endgame for and got us stuck in it for decades. An endless war on terror initiatiated by the same for-profit republicans, that has created terrorists abroad who hate us. (To be fair, fighting terror is important. But sacrificing our values with Guantanamo, CIA-endorsed torture with no accountability, and unConstitutional domestic wiretaps without following the correct process were major errors.)

In all these misguided conflicts, thousands of American lives were wasted. Truly wasted, though no politician will say so. And the people killed are largely from red states. People in cities largely saw through Bush’s lies and stayed out of fighting. Turns out: they were right.

Now a war in Iran looms. Why would anyone agree to fight that stupid, useless war, run by idiots like Bolton who haven’t learned the mistakes of Iraq?

I have hinted at all this to my nephew. But I’m worried about him. I want to say “Don’t be a sucker. If there is a war in Iran created by the GOP, you’ll fight it and you’ll be throwing away your life for no reason.”

Don’t tell me to stay out of it. I’m close to him and to his dad. The only question is, how do I reach him with the truth? What’s the best strategy to break through the lies he hears all around him in he place he lives? What’s the best approach?

So, uh, fairly prescient there.

Except Bolton’s not around anymore. And he was probably the MOST sane person in the room. That is crazy.

If and when Americans die because of this (Iran will retaliate at some point), think about how everyone will feel about having a corrupt moron in the Oval Office. There’s at least as much chance the president was bribed to do this as he thought it would help him with domestic politics.

Let’s just hope Iran doesn’t decide to shoot down a few American airliners in retaliation. But expect some sort of civilian attack by Iran’s proxies. Good thing we have a president bought by autocrats, GOP! Hope that tax cut for your donors was worth it.

+1

[Anonymous]

If he is dead set on joining the military, I would encourage him to look into the USCG. My brother did this after undergrad and got a top fed job making 6 figures after he completed his service. He also went back for his MBA which was also paid for partially due to this. My other brother went into combat, has severe PTSD and addiction issues as a result and is on disability for the rest of his life. I would strongly deter my own children from enlisting with the exception that they were going to one of the academies with a plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he is dead set on joining the military, I would encourage him to look into the USCG. My brother did this after undergrad and got a top fed job making 6 figures after he completed his service. He also went back for his MBA which was also paid for partially due to this. My other brother went into combat, has severe PTSD and addiction issues as a result and is on disability for the rest of his life. I would strongly deter my own children from enlisting with the exception that they were going to one of the academies with a plan.

Don’t join the USCG. They don’t get paid when there is a government shutdown. Those happen frequently under both parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is from a red area.
He is thinking about joining the military. He (and his Mom) think that this a good way to improve himself.

But we’ve seen what’s happened with our military over the past two decades: a useless war in Iraq, boosted by neocons and for profit of guys like Cheney and Erik Prince. Inability to rebuild Afghanistan, which Bush failed to have an endgame for and got us stuck in it for decades. An endless war on terror initiatiated by the same for-profit republicans, that has created terrorists abroad who hate us. (To be fair, fighting terror is important. But sacrificing our values with Guantanamo, CIA-endorsed torture with no accountability, and unConstitutional domestic wiretaps without following the correct process were major errors.)

In all these misguided conflicts, thousands of American lives were wasted. Truly wasted, though no politician will say so. And the people killed are largely from red states. People in cities largely saw through Bush’s lies and stayed out of fighting. Turns out: they were right.

Now a war in Iran looms. Why would anyone agree to fight that stupid, useless war, run by idiots like Bolton who haven’t learned the mistakes of Iraq?

I have hinted at all this to my nephew. But I’m worried about him. I want to say “Don’t be a sucker. If there is a war in Iran created by the GOP, you’ll fight it and you’ll be throwing away your life for no reason.”

Don’t tell me to stay out of it. I’m close to him and to his dad. The only question is, how do I reach him with the truth? What’s the best strategy to break through the lies he hears all around him in he place he lives? What’s the best approach?

Offer to pay for him to attend a college of his choice as an alternative to joining the military. If you're not willing to do that then keep your personal opinions to yourself and let he and his family decide what's best for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Basically if you serve 1 day active duty and are honorably discharged you can call yourself a veteran and get veteran benefits.

that is, in it's entirety, a false statement. Try harder next time.

My sister is 100% disability rating, incurred during service. She has full VA benefits, no cost for medical through or approved by VA, disability pay, most states don’t charge for license plates, license or tax on purchased vehicle, and totally disabled vets don’t normally pay property taxes. Permanent base access, permanent military ID. Degree as a result of GI Bill. She does not regret her service, even with medical issues and needing a service dog.

Her ex (50% disability rating, not service related; enlisted, reupped and finished) just got to learn that he now has to pay property taxes in some states, has to pay taxes on his vehicles now. He no longer has access to BX prices, because he doesn’t have access to the base. He did get specialized training and a high security clearance, both of which help him make 200-350k now (depending on where he gets sent and how much he chooses to work as overtime), without which, he’d be lucky to make 50k. He’s the only one in his company who has both the ability and clearance to do certain jobs. He has full VA medical for anything service-related, has guaranteed access to medical at a VA hospital for anything not service-related, but has to pay. He doesn’t regret his service, but boy is he regretting cheating on my sister!

My mother separated from AF when my father was going back stateside and she was staying in Europe. They weren’t married yet, and she was pregnant. She was still eligible for benefits as a spouse of an active duty service member, but she has next to no benefits as a veteran now. She also doesn’t regret serving. She’s still a veteran, and she knows she got something out of it.

No, it’s not free medical service as soon as you’re one day in. And yes, there are still plenty of reasons to go into service.

[Anonymous]

2 great-uncles in Korea, enlisted to get away from abusive home, saw combat. Both say it’s the best decision they ever made, after asking their wives to marry them.

Grandfather in Vietnam, medic, boots on the ground three tours. Navy refused to send him back for a fourth tour. He wanted to go because he felt he was more likely to save more Marines than someone green. Finished his 20 stateside, stayed in for 26 (I think). Never regretted serving, did say he regretted missing 3/5 births of his kids. Didn’t talk much about what he saw, but the men he saved? They showed up in droves at his funeral.

Uncle, enlisted, chose not to reup. No spectacular skills before or after, but a great work ethic that resulted in a solid job for 30+ years.

Uncle got his HS diploma thanks to Army. Dyslexia, local high school couldn’t/wouldn’t help, enlisted and the high school by Ft. Campbell was happy to help. Boots on the ground in DMZ (not wartime), was thankful to military for the rest of his life.

Mom and dad met in Europe. I (and siblings) wouldn’t be here without the military. Numerous other things I could say. Neither have regrets about serving, just meeting each other (not having kids though).

Sister met her ex on the ship. She regrets that, not serving!

Three cousins are currently serving. One is motor pool, one is in A school, one can’t tell me what/where. All are planning 20+, we’ll see.

I have one cousin did JROTC, currently on ROTC scholarship at the college of his choice, intends 20+, we’ll see. One is at an Academy, intends 20+, again we’ll see. One was JROTC, got a full ride merit scholarship from school of choice and plans to have military pay for medical school. Three are in JROTC in high school; one plans to enlist, then ocs, one will go rotc, and the other is just a freshman so doesn’t know what she’s going to do yet. My cousins (both sides of my family) will be the first officers in the family, but whether they are officers or enlisted, we support our family members.

In the last hundred years, looking at both my mother’s and father’s families, about half have served during wartime. Only two died. Every single one knew it could happen, that they could be permanently injured physically. In the last 50 years, they’ve known that mental health was possibly going to be an issue. They each had to decide for themselves if it was the right choice for them.

We’ve had family members who were gung-ho for war. Others were/are pacifists. Republican, Democrat, Tea Party, Independent. No matter what, we support our family members.

Some families value service (ours does), others don’t. Some individuals think it’s a good idea for them, others don’t (wasn’t for me). Some families see only problems, others see only benefits, while most acknowledge that there are risks and benefits.

The most that any family member can (or should, IMO) do is to talk about their decision, try to understand, and provide alternatives if they’re doing it only because they feel they have no choice. If they have reasons, listen and try to understand. Be proud that they are taking charge of their life, whether you agree or not.

[jsteele]

This is a 7 month old thread that was recently revived by someone who got lost on their way to the Political Forum.