My nephew wants to join the military. I think only suckers agree to fight Republican wars. Advice?

[Anonymous]

The dad with 3 kids -- His first 2 didn't enlist straight out of high school but rather went to college on ROTC and some other program, correct? That's not what OP's nephew is proposing. The 3rd child seems more like OP's nephew. Is the GI Bill she got really available to every B-/C+ student graduating high school this month? Or is that just for people who get high ASVAB scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't read the thread but . . .
I'm a baby boomer liberal but OP's topic left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not all "God Bless the USA" and I disagree with people who insist that sacrifice of life and health is never wasted. That's not what Pat Tillman came to think, and he and his family were pretty bitter about how the Bush admin exploited his service when he enlisted and later when he was killed.

I was an older than average returning college student in my early 30s and met many vets who were going to school after military service, both when I was an undergrad and when I was a TA. I found them to be very impressive people--there was a professor at my undergrad school who was a former ambassador from Sierra Leone and highly regarded by his students. At the time of the first Gulf War he had them studying the articles of the UN in the context of the lead-up, and I'd listen in to their discussions in the union when I was doing my own homework.

I have friends from my earlier college career who were all very left wing, we were freshmen when Watergate went from simmer to boil, and many of them have kids who joined the military. One classmate joined the Marines while an undergrad--we gave him a lot of crap about that, but his goal was the law and he became a military judge and later a civilian law professor and law school dean. Other college friends also went into the military because of career aspirations.

There have always been people drawn to the principles of service, including military service, having little or nothing to do with who is running the show politically at a given time. The military needs people like that--people who are there because of principles of service rather than because of a particular ideology.

Comments like the bolded, and schools that ban shirts with the US flag, and people kneeling during the anthem..... these things are symbolic of what is happening in this country. Since when is bad to a proud US citizen?

That was me who bolded the statement, and yes, you can take being a citizen seriously and still kneel during the anthem and detest Lee Greenwood's song and feel disgusted when people start chanting USA! USA! As for shirts, it used to be considered disrespectful to turn the flag into apparel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The dad with 3 kids -- His first 2 didn't enlist straight out of high school but rather went to college on ROTC and some other program, correct? That's not what OP's nephew is proposing. The 3rd child seems more like OP's nephew. Is the GI Bill she got really available to every B-/C+ student graduating high school this month? Or is that just for people who get high ASVAB scores?

The GI Bill is for everyone in the military. It’s not dependent on test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dad with 3 kids -- His first 2 didn't enlist straight out of high school but rather went to college on ROTC and some other program, correct? That's not what OP's nephew is proposing. The 3rd child seems more like OP's nephew. Is the GI Bill she got really available to every B-/C+ student graduating high school this month? Or is that just for people who get high ASVAB scores?

The GI Bill is for everyone in the military. It’s not dependent on test scores.

Check out benefits.va.gov

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter commissioned last week. Proudest day of my entire life. God bless the USA.

Congratulations! That is wonderful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that in elite Republican circles (donors, politicians, lobbyists, think tanks, the people that control the party) they absolutely do denigrate the people who enlist in the military as stupid. Usually it’s just to lump them in with the other “useful fools” in the GOP base that they can control by controlling the news media and preachers.

But the people who start the wars do look down on people in the military as not being very smart. (As mentioned above: there’s a reason few politicans’ kids are in the military today. It was different 50 years ago.)

Not true. You're projecting. The only people I've ever heard denigrate men and women who join the military are Democrats.

Twice as many Republicans as Democrats in Congress were in the military themselves. It's about 18 percent of the Congress, total (vs. 12.7 percent of the total US population over 18 that are veterans).

96 total veterans in the 116th Congress.
30 are Democrats, 66 are Republicans.
19 will serve in the Senate, 77 will serve in the House.
48 served in the military after 2000.
21 served in the military in the 1960s or earlier.
19 are first-time lawmakers.
7 are women.
50 served in the Army, Army Reserve or Army National Guard.
17 served in the Marine Corps or Marine Corps Reserve.
17 served in the Air Force, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard.
13 served in the Navy or Naval Reserve.
1 served in the Coast Guard.

Not true. Go read the Political Forum. The Rs tear down McCain as a “bad” soldier, Buttigieg as a wimp, and anyone with a “lesser” job like a technician as worthless. They crap all over people in the military if they weren’t deployed multiple times to active war zones.

The only people I've *ever* heard denigrate the military are liberals. Especially on this site. So many ugly comments regarding those who serve our country. It's really too bad the military has to protect all U.S. citizens, because there are some who deserve no protection whatsoever.
-DP

Seriously. Check out the Political board. It’s really disgusting how some MAGA people in the military view other people in the military.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the person who posted as the military being an entry point to a career as a physician assistant meant an actual "physician assistant" and not an assistant in a medical setting who cleans rooms. Big difference and the pay is very different.

https://explorehealthcareers.org/career/medicine/physician-assistant/

To become a physician assistant you need a 4-yr BS or BA with lots of science coursework, then it's a 2-yr grad school program.

So again, I ask whether anybody actually knows this unicorn PA or the anesthesiologist (requires MD or DO degree) who back at age 18 decided to forego college and instead enlisted in the military.

I seriously want to know because I still see kids joining the military based on what seems to me to be a misrepresentation by recruiters about how the army is going to send them to college and pay for it. It seems to me that the army or other military branch will possibly pay for training that may happen in a college setting if that will benefit the army. (I'm not referring to the people with a BA or BS or BSN who join after getting their undergraduate degree and then get the military to pay for law school or med/nursing school, since these people are not at all in the same situation as the kids just leaving high school with no credentials.) It's not like if you want to be a high school English or Journalism teacher, you can join the Marines and then they'll pay for you to major in English Literature and get a teaching credential. Or am I wrong?

I actually am best friends with one! I enlisted out of college, she enlisted out of high school. Both of us decided to seek commissions in our own way, I went to Officer Candidate School, she applied for and was accepted to the Military Physician Assistant Program (IPAP). She worked on her bachelors between high school and applying to the PA Program. After a few years as a PA, she went back to school to become a DO, and is now chief resident and an anesthesiology resident at one of the top hospitals in the country (all while still being in the Reserves as a medical officer).

The military doesn't have to be all negative. Using your time smartly, use the earned benefits to enrich your life (i.e., the education benefits that you can use both on active duty and once you transition from the service - the military does not say what field of study you have to partake in, so yes you could go for teaching). It can truly help many people with stability and opportunity they may not have in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much for sharing this story that specifically answers my question about the possibilities for kids enlisting straight out of high school. This is great information for readers like me to have. While it's interesting to hear about people who joined after attending college or got scholarships from the military to cover college while they were "traditional" college age students, most of us know about those paths. It's the people like your friend and OP's nephew that I was curious about.

"I actually am best friends with one! "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that in elite Republican circles (donors, politicians, lobbyists, think tanks, the people that control the party) they absolutely do denigrate the people who enlist in the military as stupid. Usually it’s just to lump them in with the other “useful fools” in the GOP base that they can control by controlling the news media and preachers.

But the people who start the wars do look down on people in the military as not being very smart. (As mentioned above: there’s a reason few politicans’ kids are in the military today. It was different 50 years ago.)

Not true. You're projecting. The only people I've ever heard denigrate men and women who join the military are Democrats.

Twice as many Republicans as Democrats in Congress were in the military themselves. It's about 18 percent of the Congress, total (vs. 12.7 percent of the total US population over 18 that are veterans).

96 total veterans in the 116th Congress.
30 are Democrats, 66 are Republicans.
19 will serve in the Senate, 77 will serve in the House.
48 served in the military after 2000.
21 served in the military in the 1960s or earlier.
19 are first-time lawmakers.
7 are women.
50 served in the Army, Army Reserve or Army National Guard.
17 served in the Marine Corps or Marine Corps Reserve.
17 served in the Air Force, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard.
13 served in the Navy or Naval Reserve.
1 served in the Coast Guard.

Not true. Go read the Political Forum. The Rs tear down McCain as a “bad” soldier, Buttigieg as a wimp, and anyone with a “lesser” job like a technician as worthless. They crap all over people in the military if they weren’t deployed multiple times to active war zones.

Another example: look at how Max Cleland was treated in his senate race against Chicken Hawk Saxby Chamblis. Cleland left three limbs behind in Vietnam and Chamblis painted him as unpatriotic.

See also John Kerry's service being attacked by the Swiftboaters.

See also all the Trump family members who have served in the military. Oh wait, oops.

[Anonymous]

I think the only thing you can do is respect his choice and ask him open ended questions and be willing to listen to his answers. I have a few veteran friends who are both proud of their service and forthright about the problems they saw when they were in. If you have anyone like that in your life, you could see if they both willing to have a conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nephew is from a red area.
He is thinking about joining the military. He (and his Mom) think that this a good way to improve himself.

But we’ve seen what’s happened with our military over the past two decades: a useless war in Iraq, boosted by neocons and for profit of guys like Cheney and Erik Prince. Inability to rebuild Afghanistan, which Bush failed to have an endgame for and got us stuck in it for decades. An endless war on terror initiatiated by the same for-profit republicans, that has created terrorists abroad who hate us. (To be fair, fighting terror is important. But sacrificing our values with Guantanamo, CIA-endorsed torture with no accountability, and unConstitutional domestic wiretaps without following the correct process were major errors.)

In all these misguided conflicts, thousands of American lives were wasted. Truly wasted, though no politician will say so. And the people killed are largely from red states. People in cities largely saw through Bush’s lies and stayed out of fighting. Turns out: they were right.

Now a war in Iran looms. Why would anyone agree to fight that stupid, useless war, run by idiots like Bolton who haven’t learned the mistakes of Iraq?

I have hinted at all this to my nephew. But I’m worried about him. I want to say “Don’t be a sucker. If there is a war in Iran created by the GOP, you’ll fight it and you’ll be throwing away your life for no reason.”

Don’t tell me to stay out of it. I’m close to him and to his dad. The only question is, how do I reach him with the truth? What’s the best strategy to break through the lies he hears all around him in he place he lives? What’s the best approach?

I would have a conversation that joining doesn't automatically bestow the honor of "hero" on him. Soldiers are not inherently heroes. Only soldiers that do extraordinary things that save the lives of others in immediate danger are heroes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Democrats starts wars and not just republicans?

Because that's wrong. It's a lie. It's something our lying rightwing media might say.
Over the last 50 years, two and a half generations, it is Republicans who have gotten us into disastrous wars without ever admitting their errors.

Iraq and Afghanistan and our current unending war on terror were huge, huge mistakes. These were launched by the institutional Republican party around George Bush.

Those wars, over the last 20 years, have thrown away American lives. Many for no reason at all. Potential enlistees should know this.

OP, the US hasn't been at war in 74 years. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the person who posted as the military being an entry point to a career as a physician assistant meant an actual "physician assistant" and not an assistant in a medical setting who cleans rooms. Big difference and the pay is very different.

https://explorehealthcareers.org/career/medicine/physician-assistant/

To become a physician assistant you need a 4-yr BS or BA with lots of science coursework, then it's a 2-yr grad school program.

So again, I ask whether anybody actually knows this unicorn PA or the anesthesiologist (requires MD or DO degree) who back at age 18 decided to forego college and instead enlisted in the military.

I seriously want to know because I still see kids joining the military based on what seems to me to be a misrepresentation by recruiters about how the army is going to send them to college and pay for it. It seems to me that the army or other military branch will possibly pay for training that may happen in a college setting if that will benefit the army. (I'm not referring to the people with a BA or BS or BSN who join after getting their undergraduate degree and then get the military to pay for law school or med/nursing school, since these people are not at all in the same situation as the kids just leaving high school with no credentials.) It's not like if you want to be a high school English or Journalism teacher, you can join the Marines and then they'll pay for you to major in English Literature and get a teaching credential. Or am I wrong?

I actually am best friends with one! I enlisted out of college, she enlisted out of high school. Both of us decided to seek commissions in our own way, I went to Officer Candidate School, she applied for and was accepted to the Military Physician Assistant Program (IPAP). She worked on her bachelors between high school and applying to the PA Program. After a few years as a PA, she went back to school to become a DO, and is now chief resident and an anesthesiology resident at one of the top hospitals in the country (all while still being in the Reserves as a medical officer).

The military doesn't have to be all negative. Using your time smartly, use the earned benefits to enrich your life (i.e., the education benefits that you can use both on active duty and once you transition from the service - the military does not say what field of study you have to partake in, so yes you could go for teaching). It can truly help many people with stability and opportunity they may not have in their lives.

One is a very small number. How many enlisted a year go to Officer Candidate School? Very few based off the numbers of enlisted.

[Anonymous]

Have him read this tweet and all the responses.

https://twitter.com/usarmy/status/1131704927963766785?s=21

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Democrats starts wars and not just republicans?

Because that's wrong. It's a lie. It's something our lying rightwing media might say.
Over the last 50 years, two and a half generations, it is Republicans who have gotten us into disastrous wars without ever admitting their errors.

Iraq and Afghanistan and our current unending war on terror were huge, huge mistakes. These were launched by the institutional Republican party around George Bush.

Those wars, over the last 20 years, have thrown away American lives. Many for no reason at all. Potential enlistees should know this.

OP, the US hasn't been at war in 74 years. What are you talking about?

Declaring war is a political vote. Congress may not have declared war, but they definitely sent us to several wars.