My nephew wants to join the military. I think only suckers agree to fight Republican wars. Advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am liberal. I hate Trump. I am terrified that we are going war with Iran. I share your world view. I think you are wrong to force it on family in different circumstances than you.

You have the luxury of thinking big picture on international politics. A kid from a red state without a lot of resources is thinking— how can I “better myself”— bootstrap his way in to a solid future for himself, when he doesn’t have the luxury of parents paying for college or maybe even supporting him after HS graduation.

It’s pretty condescending for you to prattle on about the Military Industrial complex, when this kid is thinking about supporting himself and workforce skills. Even if he agrees with you, he might not have a better option.

So rather than lecturing his family, help him find options. Look with him at ROTC programs, where at least he gets college paid for and goes in as an officer. Offer to pay for/ help him find pell grants for vocational or technical school, so he can better himself without the military.

If he is determined to enlist, help him find a specialty where his skills will be in demand when he leaves and look with him at GI Bill options.

I’m on your side politically. But keeping this kid safe is about helping him find another good option, not lecturing about how their political viewpoint is wrong”.

So you do some research, and see what you can offer financially and say—

I love you so much. And I am so proud that you have group up to have the courage and strength of character to want to serve our country and make a good future for yourself. But, worried about your enlisting at a time when we are looking at possible war with Iran/ NK. Would you mind sitting down with me and looking at some possibilities I found where you would be safer than if you enlisted into infantry, but might accomplish the same goals?

Do not mix red state blue state politics or value judgments with this discussion. If this kid enlists, you could well end up estranged from your family.

When you enlist you don't always get a choice in wha too do. It doesn't work that way. You take tests and get assigned.

You take the ASVAB and can see the scores before you enlist. The Army, ay least, let’s you choose your specialty, if not the exact job when you enlist. It would be helpful for OP to encourage her nephew to work through so ASVABs, see what the score qualifies him to do, and choose a specialty he can build on.

+1. The army lets you choose. I have a relative who had a good ASVAB score and was extremely picky, deciding to wait until a particular spot opened up. The army was heppy to endulge.

Sometimes, he was lucky. My husband didn't get a choice. Army generally takes anyone (almost anyone as there are some things that exclude people).

Then your husband enlisted under what is called an "open contract." Most people sign up for a certain job. I mean this kindly, but your husband is an exception and not the rule. Open contracts are not the norm, and are usually for people who don't really meet the qualifications to join, but are being let in through the backdoor so long as they agree to do whatever they are assigned.

No he wasn't in an open contract. He took the test and was assigned a job. He met the qualifications to join. Most enlisted get crappy jobs.

I don’t know about other services, but my family members in the Navy as enlisted were cryptologic technicians and hospital corpsmen - and another was a rescue diver and his brother was a SeaBee construction guy. All loved the cool stuff they did and do.

They didn't have any of the cool fields when my spouse enlisted. Many do cool things but as someone who goes to the navy hospital, being a hospital corpsman is not fun. I don't get all the negativity. Its not what people make it out to be and can be a very good start for many that don't have college as an option.

OP, pay for college, community college or trade school. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am liberal. I hate Trump. I am terrified that we are going war with Iran. I share your world view. I think you are wrong to force it on family in different circumstances than you.

You have the luxury of thinking big picture on international politics. A kid from a red state without a lot of resources is thinking— how can I “better myself”— bootstrap his way in to a solid future for himself, when he doesn’t have the luxury of parents paying for college or maybe even supporting him after HS graduation.

It’s pretty condescending for you to prattle on about the Military Industrial complex, when this kid is thinking about supporting himself and workforce skills. Even if he agrees with you, he might not have a better option.

So rather than lecturing his family, help him find options. Look with him at ROTC programs, where at least he gets college paid for and goes in as an officer. Offer to pay for/ help him find pell grants for vocational or technical school, so he can better himself without the military.

If he is determined to enlist, help him find a specialty where his skills will be in demand when he leaves and look with him at GI Bill options.

I’m on your side politically. But keeping this kid safe is about helping him find another good option, not lecturing about how their political viewpoint is wrong”.

So you do some research, and see what you can offer financially and say—

I love you so much. And I am so proud that you have group up to have the courage and strength of character to want to serve our country and make a good future for yourself. But, worried about your enlisting at a time when we are looking at possible war with Iran/ NK. Would you mind sitting down with me and looking at some possibilities I found where you would be safer than if you enlisted into infantry, but might accomplish the same goals?

Do not mix red state blue state politics or value judgments with this discussion. If this kid enlists, you could well end up estranged from your family.

When you enlist you don't always get a choice in wha too do. It doesn't work that way. You take tests and get assigned.

You take the ASVAB and can see the scores before you enlist. The Army, ay least, let’s you choose your specialty, if not the exact job when you enlist. It would be helpful for OP to encourage her nephew to work through so ASVABs, see what the score qualifies him to do, and choose a specialty he can build on.

+1. The army lets you choose. I have a relative who had a good ASVAB score and was extremely picky, deciding to wait until a particular spot opened up. The army was heppy to endulge.

Sometimes, he was lucky. My husband didn't get a choice. Army generally takes anyone (almost anyone as there are some things that exclude people).

Then your husband enlisted under what is called an "open contract." Most people sign up for a certain job. I mean this kindly, but your husband is an exception and not the rule. Open contracts are not the norm, and are usually for people who don't really meet the qualifications to join, but are being let in through the backdoor so long as they agree to do whatever they are assigned.

No he wasn't in an open contract. He took the test and was assigned a job. He met the qualifications to join. Most enlisted get crappy jobs.

I don’t know about other services, but my family members in the Navy as enlisted were cryptologic technicians and hospital corpsmen - and another was a rescue diver and his brother was a SeaBee construction guy. All loved the cool stuff they did and do.

They didn't have any of the cool fields when my spouse enlisted. Many do cool things but as someone who goes to the navy hospital, being a hospital corpsman is not fun. I don't get all the negativity. Its not what people make it out to be and can be a very good start for many that don't have college as an option.

OP, pay for college, community college or trade school. Problem solved.

At least for the cryptologic technician - that’s a great field to eventually get a high GS gig at NSA. And certainly a large construction company would seek the services of a person who brought water and temporary shelter from scratch to devastated people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am liberal. I hate Trump. I am terrified that we are going war with Iran. I share your world view. I think you are wrong to force it on family in different circumstances than you.

You have the luxury of thinking big picture on international politics. A kid from a red state without a lot of resources is thinking— how can I “better myself”— bootstrap his way in to a solid future for himself, when he doesn’t have the luxury of parents paying for college or maybe even supporting him after HS graduation.

It’s pretty condescending for you to prattle on about the Military Industrial complex, when this kid is thinking about supporting himself and workforce skills. Even if he agrees with you, he might not have a better option.

So rather than lecturing his family, help him find options. Look with him at ROTC programs, where at least he gets college paid for and goes in as an officer. Offer to pay for/ help him find pell grants for vocational or technical school, so he can better himself without the military.

If he is determined to enlist, help him find a specialty where his skills will be in demand when he leaves and look with him at GI Bill options.

I’m on your side politically. But keeping this kid safe is about helping him find another good option, not lecturing about how their political viewpoint is wrong”.

So you do some research, and see what you can offer financially and say—

I love you so much. And I am so proud that you have group up to have the courage and strength of character to want to serve our country and make a good future for yourself. But, worried about your enlisting at a time when we are looking at possible war with Iran/ NK. Would you mind sitting down with me and looking at some possibilities I found where you would be safer than if you enlisted into infantry, but might accomplish the same goals?

Do not mix red state blue state politics or value judgments with this discussion. If this kid enlists, you could well end up estranged from your family.

When you enlist you don't always get a choice in wha too do. It doesn't work that way. You take tests and get assigned.

You take the ASVAB and can see the scores before you enlist. The Army, ay least, let’s you choose your specialty, if not the exact job when you enlist. It would be helpful for OP to encourage her nephew to work through so ASVABs, see what the score qualifies him to do, and choose a specialty he can build on.

+1. The army lets you choose. I have a relative who had a good ASVAB score and was extremely picky, deciding to wait until a particular spot opened up. The army was heppy to endulge.

Sometimes, he was lucky. My husband didn't get a choice. Army generally takes anyone (almost anyone as there are some things that exclude people).

Then your husband enlisted under what is called an "open contract." Most people sign up for a certain job. I mean this kindly, but your husband is an exception and not the rule. Open contracts are not the norm, and are usually for people who don't really meet the qualifications to join, but are being let in through the backdoor so long as they agree to do whatever they are assigned.

No he wasn't in an open contract. He took the test and was assigned a job. He met the qualifications to join. Most enlisted get crappy jobs.

I don’t know about other services, but my family members in the Navy as enlisted were cryptologic technicians and hospital corpsmen - and another was a rescue diver and his brother was a SeaBee construction guy. All loved the cool stuff they did and do.

They didn't have any of the cool fields when my spouse enlisted. Many do cool things but as someone who goes to the navy hospital, being a hospital corpsman is not fun. I don't get all the negativity. Its not what people make it out to be and can be a very good start for many that don't have college as an option.

OP, pay for college, community college or trade school. Problem solved.

At least for the cryptologic technician - that’s a great field to eventually get a high GS gig at NSA. And certainly a large construction company would seek the services of a person who brought water and temporary shelter from scratch to devastated people.

Shut your mouth, OP obviously thinks the military only employs people who are front line combat troops. Don't ruin their fantasy.

[Anonymous]

I was in intelligence in the Army. Not a bad gig. Most people get to learn a language as a part of their training, and live in the old town section of Monterey, CA for a year or two as a part of it.

Between not having to pay for college (the Army paid for it), and getting the incredible life experience I got from it, a small part of me thinks that people who racked up debt going to state colleges and then slaved away at entry level jobs are suckers. I went from being enlisted directly into a mid-grade GS position.

[Anonymous]

I couldn’t read through all of this. A few things, OP. 1. One of my best friends was killed in the war. His death wasn’t a waste. Do I agree why he was there? No. But his death wasn’t a waste. I pray no one hears you say that, because reading it, I was crying. I can’t imagine what I would do if I actually heard those words.
2. Why don’t you talk with him about going the ROTC route? It would give him the opportunity to serve in the military which is what he wants. But it will also help set him up for the future after the military. My husband went ROTC and loved it. It might be an option for him. I would be very worried as well for a family member to be deployed again, and hopefully if he goes through ROTC it would delay that or it can give him more job options in the military.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am liberal. I hate Trump. I am terrified that we are going war with Iran. I share your world view. I think you are wrong to force it on family in different circumstances than you.

You have the luxury of thinking big picture on international politics. A kid from a red state without a lot of resources is thinking— how can I “better myself”— bootstrap his way in to a solid future for himself, when he doesn’t have the luxury of parents paying for college or maybe even supporting him after HS graduation.

It’s pretty condescending for you to prattle on about the Military Industrial complex, when this kid is thinking about supporting himself and workforce skills. Even if he agrees with you, he might not have a better option.

So rather than lecturing his family, help him find options. Look with him at ROTC programs, where at least he gets college paid for and goes in as an officer. Offer to pay for/ help him find pell grants for vocational or technical school, so he can better himself without the military.

If he is determined to enlist, help him find a specialty where his skills will be in demand when he leaves and look with him at GI Bill options.

I’m on your side politically. But keeping this kid safe is about helping him find another good option, not lecturing about how their political viewpoint is wrong”.

So you do some research, and see what you can offer financially and say—

I love you so much. And I am so proud that you have group up to have the courage and strength of character to want to serve our country and make a good future for yourself. But, worried about your enlisting at a time when we are looking at possible war with Iran/ NK. Would you mind sitting down with me and looking at some possibilities I found where you would be safer than if you enlisted into infantry, but might accomplish the same goals?

Do not mix red state blue state politics or value judgments with this discussion. If this kid enlists, you could well end up estranged from your family.

When you enlist you don't always get a choice in wha too do. It doesn't work that way. You take tests and get assigned.

You take the ASVAB and can see the scores before you enlist. The Army, ay least, let’s you choose your specialty, if not the exact job when you enlist. It would be helpful for OP to encourage her nephew to work through so ASVABs, see what the score qualifies him to do, and choose a specialty he can build on.

+1. The army lets you choose. I have a relative who had a good ASVAB score and was extremely picky, deciding to wait until a particular spot opened up. The army was heppy to endulge.

Sometimes, he was lucky. My husband didn't get a choice. Army generally takes anyone (almost anyone as there are some things that exclude people).

Then your husband enlisted under what is called an "open contract." Most people sign up for a certain job. I mean this kindly, but your husband is an exception and not the rule. Open contracts are not the norm, and are usually for people who don't really meet the qualifications to join, but are being let in through the backdoor so long as they agree to do whatever they are assigned.

No he wasn't in an open contract. He took the test and was assigned a job. He met the qualifications to join. Most enlisted get crappy jobs.

I don’t know about other services, but my family members in the Navy as enlisted were cryptologic technicians and hospital corpsmen - and another was a rescue diver and his brother was a SeaBee construction guy. All loved the cool stuff they did and do.

They didn't have any of the cool fields when my spouse enlisted. Many do cool things but as someone who goes to the navy hospital, being a hospital corpsman is not fun. I don't get all the negativity. Its not what people make it out to be and can be a very good start for many that don't have college as an option.

OP, pay for college, community college or trade school. Problem solved.

How long ago did your husband enlist?

[Anonymous]

Shouldn’t this be over in the political forum?
And OP why don’t you MYOB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you people suggesting the OP pay for college - what makes you think the nephew is college material? I'd bet he isn't, and is looking at scrambling to find a minimum wage job, or enlisting in the service. I know which option I'm choose - and I'm as liberal as they come.

Virtually anyone who can pass an asvab can get in to community college at a minimum. It's a safe bet that OP's nephew is college material by the sheer fact that he's been accepted to the military. Most kids don't qualify for the military- they bomb the test, they have a criminal background, they have a medical issue, they have a pattern of discipline issues, or they are fat.

Most qualify but with the increase in drug use, that's going to be a huge issue. Army and Marines are much more flexible.

Most young adults do not qualify. According to the news article in the link, 71 % of young adults do not qualify to join the military.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn’t this be over in the political forum?
And OP why don’t you MYOB?

+1
I can't figure out why it hasn't been moved already.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in a military "town" and my dad was Air Force as a civilian and reservist. I have never once seen somebody who could get a scholarship to at least a local state school join the military and have the military pay for a 4-yr college degree. Can somebody explain if this actually ever happens or if it's just something that the 1 in a million high school recruit who is brilliant will ever experience? I do know plenty of people who got college degrees and then joined as officers.

Does the friend of the anesthesiologist really not understand that 18-yr-olds who join the military aren't ever going to become physicians through the military?

As I said, my dad was military. He did everything in his power to make sure that none of his kids or nieces and nephews joined the military instead of going to college. He did it for 35 years, but as a person of color growing up at that time, he had no other career options. He knew that was as good as it would get. He's naturally great with numbers and spatial reasoning and ended up working in a job where he developed the skills of an engineer. Without a college degree he actually helped me with physics and calculus in high school. But had he been born at another time, or into a different race, he would have entered college and become an actual engineer with the money and prestige that comes with that. Despite his skills, it's not like the Air Force was going to pay for him to get the official credentials of an engineer. The only reason to go straight into the military out of high school is because you have no other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a military "town" and my dad was Air Force as a civilian and reservist. I have never once seen somebody who could get a scholarship to at least a local state school join the military and have the military pay for a 4-yr college degree. Can somebody explain if this actually ever happens or if it's just something that the 1 in a million high school recruit who is brilliant will ever experience? I do know plenty of people who got college degrees and then joined as officers.

Does the friend of the anesthesiologist really not understand that 18-yr-olds who join the military aren't ever going to become physicians through the military?

As I said, my dad was military. He did everything in his power to make sure that none of his kids or nieces and nephews joined the military instead of going to college. He did it for 35 years, but as a person of color growing up at that time, he had no other career options. He knew that was as good as it would get. He's naturally great with numbers and spatial reasoning and ended up working in a job where he developed the skills of an engineer. Without a college degree he actually helped me with physics and calculus in high school. But had he been born at another time, or into a different race, he would have entered college and become an actual engineer with the money and prestige that comes with that. Despite his skills, it's not like the Air Force was going to pay for him to get the official credentials of an engineer. The only reason to go straight into the military out of high school is because you have no other options.

I don’t know what era this was or where. But lots of physician assistants and other professionals are in the DC area that started out enlisted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a military "town" and my dad was Air Force as a civilian and reservist. I have never once seen somebody who could get a scholarship to at least a local state school join the military and have the military pay for a 4-yr college degree. Can somebody explain if this actually ever happens or if it's just something that the 1 in a million high school recruit who is brilliant will ever experience? I do know plenty of people who got college degrees and then joined as officers.

Does the friend of the anesthesiologist really not understand that 18-yr-olds who join the military aren't ever going to become physicians through the military?

As I said, my dad was military. He did everything in his power to make sure that none of his kids or nieces and nephews joined the military instead of going to college. He did it for 35 years, but as a person of color growing up at that time, he had no other career options. He knew that was as good as it would get. He's naturally great with numbers and spatial reasoning and ended up working in a job where he developed the skills of an engineer. Without a college degree he actually helped me with physics and calculus in high school. But had he been born at another time, or into a different race, he would have entered college and become an actual engineer with the money and prestige that comes with that. Despite his skills, it's not like the Air Force was going to pay for him to get the official credentials of an engineer. The only reason to go straight into the military out of high school is because you have no other options.

I don’t know what era this was or where. But lots of physician assistants and other professionals are in the DC area that started out enlisted.

If enlisted get an education in a good career field they can do very well, like my husband. Military was his only option. However, most enlisted are pushed to get a degree, any degree for advancement and they get random degrees vs. ones that will lead to an outside job as no one really councils them on it and those degrees are pretty worthless which is why you see many going into sales and other jobs. Being enlisted is very hard. I would fully support my kids to join but only after they have their degrees as officers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you people suggesting the OP pay for college - what makes you think the nephew is college material? I'd bet he isn't, and is looking at scrambling to find a minimum wage job, or enlisting in the service. I know which option I'm choose - and I'm as liberal as they come.

Virtually anyone who can pass an asvab can get in to community college at a minimum. It's a safe bet that OP's nephew is college material by the sheer fact that he's been accepted to the military. Most kids don't qualify for the military- they bomb the test, they have a criminal background, they have a medical issue, they have a pattern of discipline issues, or they are fat.

Most qualify but with the increase in drug use, that's going to be a huge issue. Army and Marines are much more flexible.

Most young adults do not qualify. According to the news article in the link, 71 % of young adults do not qualify to join the military.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/3665840002/

That is a fluff article that has more to do with early education than anything.

[Anonymous]

Didn't read the thread but . . .
I'm a baby boomer liberal but OP's topic left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not all "God Bless the USA" and I disagree with people who insist that sacrifice of life and health is never wasted. That's not what Pat Tillman came to think, and he and his family were pretty bitter about how the Bush admin exploited his service when he enlisted and later when he was killed.

I was an older than average returning college student in my early 30s and met many vets who were going to school after military service, both when I was an undergrad and when I was a TA. I found them to be very impressive people--there was a professor at my undergrad school who was a former ambassador from Sierra Leone and highly regarded by his students. At the time of the first Gulf War he had them studying the articles of the UN in the context of the lead-up, and I'd listen in to their discussions in the union when I was doing my own homework.

I have friends from my earlier college career who were all very left wing, we were freshmen when Watergate went from simmer to boil, and many of them have kids who joined the military. One classmate joined the Marines while an undergrad--we gave him a lot of crap about that, but his goal was the law and he became a military judge and later a civilian law professor and law school dean. Other college friends also went into the military because of career aspirations.

There have always been people drawn to the principles of service, including military service, having little or nothing to do with who is running the show politically at a given time. The military needs people like that--people who are there because of principles of service rather than because of a particular ideology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I said “Republican wars”, but I should have said “misguided wars that were never honestly discussed with the American people.”

Our country needs a strong military. But why would anyone choose to join a military that fights wars based on lies? Vietnam was bad enough; at least rich peoples’ kids fought in that one. But Iraq? Now maybe Iran?

I would have a much different opinion if Republicans had come out after 2008 and said “Iraq was a mistake. Thousands of Americans died for no reason. And trillions were wasted that could have improved our bridges, education, and roads. And now we are going to have a full national discussion of how we made that mistake and how to never make that mistake again.”

But now we are sliding towards another war in Iran for no reason. No one should sign up to support that.

You are contradicting yourself. Grow up. The government cannot tell us everything and needs to try to keep us safe. Do you not get it. They do what they can based off the information they have and they aren't telling us the entire story.

Since you want something different, why not pay for it? Maybe they cannot afford it. Military is very good for many people.

“Grow up” is the lamest, laziest response on this board. Reflects poorly on you. Make your point without insults, like an educated adult.

Not the PP, but "grow up" is exactly what many posters need to hear. Perhaps you are one of them.

Well. Sometimes. But not: when the govt lied for years about the situation in Vietnam, and not when they lied about WMD in Iraq or the supposed nuclear weapons Saddam was going to blast us off the face of the earth with. And it's not all about safety, the motivations in those cases were pretty ugly. Ditto for a number of conflicts the US has been involved with over time. A couple of "good wars" and a whole lot of bad ones.